When will the Government increase 3500kg licence

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Aspenshaw

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I know consultation was on the go and I expect the Government will be taking their time. For me, I will be 70 next June. My van is plated 3,850kg. I want to allow one of my sons to drive the van but he is limited to 3,500kg.

I don't want to down plate if my son will be able to drive the van without taking a test for C1 licence and I don't have to do the paperwork etc to retain my C1 licence
I will down plate if I have to go through the paper etc for my C1 licence renewal and my son doesn't take his C1 licence.

The worst will be down plating and then finding the licence increases to say 4,000kg.

What do people with a magic ball know what will happen over the next year. Or can guess.
 
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I haven’t heard anything other than the consultation supported the changes. I would wait a few months and see what happens.
 
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I don't believe the consultation changes anything concerning renewing C1 when 70.. Still need paper work and medical...
Only involves those younger who will be able to drive >3500kg..
 
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There's several ways they can affect this change. They could gift everyone a C1 on their licence. Or they could shift the boundaries so the 3.5t limit is set higher. Or change the classification for new vehicles. Each has implications.
 
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Pausim had a good understanding of this the other day. They may be able to help?

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Reading through the report, I would say there a number of possible outcomes.

1. Government makes no changes.
2. The government decide to go back to pre-1997 entitlement and give C1 to anyone with a B1 licence.
3. As above, but either an age stipulation (21?/25?) or an experience requirement (2 years B1 driving experience), or both.
4. As 2, but with age/experience AND apply the Restriction code for 'Not for Hire or Reward' for motorhomes, ambulances and minibuses up to 16 seats
5. Increase the B1 weight to a higher weight. Perhaps 4200, 4500, or 5000 kg
6. Create a new vehicle category of Leisure vehicles

I am banking on Number 3 or 4. What I am not expecting is for anything to happen any time soon, probably not before the next GE, after which it will be lost in bureaucracy.
 
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Can someone not eligible, take an appropriate test to upgrade eligibility?
 
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DDJC said:
Reading through the report, I would say there a number of possible outcomes.

1. Government makes no changes.
2. The government decide to go back to pre-1997 entitlement and give C1 to anyone with a B1 licence.
3. As above, but either an age stipulation (21?/25?) or an experience requirement (2 years B1 driving experience), or both.
4. As 2, but with age/experience AND apply the Restriction code for 'Not for Hire or Reward' for motorhomes, ambulances and minibuses up to 16 seats
5. Increase the B1 weight to a higher weight. Perhaps 4200, 4500, or 5000 kg
6. Create a new vehicle category of Leisure vehicles

I am banking on Number 3 or 4. What I am not expecting is for anything to happen any time soon, probably not before the next GE, after which it will be lost in bureaucracy.
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Any of those outcomes would only apply to driving in UK, unless the government wishes to tackle the task of persuading the 135 Signatures to Vienna and other Conventions to recognise the unilateral changes or to change the Convention(s) rules.
 
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I think IMHO that any changes will be introduced as they did in 1997 ....from this date changes will be

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Googlebot said:
Pausim had a good understanding of this the other day. They may be able to help?
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I am not too optimistic that there will be big changes benefitting existing drivers of motorhomes over 3500kg. The thrust of the consultation was about “the benefits of widening the recruitment pool for medium-sized goods vehicles and minibus drivers which may attract more people to the industry and support economic growth by further strengthening the supply chain.” Making it easier to get a C1/D1 for people who don’t currently qualify would fit in with this but I am not sure older C1 users are going to benefit.

DDJC ’s 5. and 6. would really suit me so I hope he is right but I am not getting that feeling from what I have read.
 
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So the consultant didn't really consider big motorhomes. Not really surprising as we're a very small minority.

What we don't want is a situation that means it's legal to drive your 4t MH in the UK, but illegal in Europe with no way of gaining the entitlement. Stupider things have happened.
 
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Guigsy said:
So the consultant didn't really consider big motorhomes. Not really surprising as we're a very small minority.

What we don't want is a situation that means it's legal to drive your 4t MH in the UK, but illegal in Europe with no way of gaining the entitlement. Stupider things have happened.
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Under the Vienna convention that can’t happen can it?

I hope…..
 
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Googlebot said:
Under the Vienna convention that can’t happen can it?

I hope…..
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Vienna doesn't apply.

What Vienna does is try to codify the vehicle categories (there are regional variations). This issue is about the awarding of categories (via testing or grandfather or whatever). Currently across Europe, even across the EU, there is no uniformity about testing or awarding categories. Some are much more difficult than others.

Basically, if the government up and decided one day to give ninety years olds the C1E category, they could do it.

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nicholsong said:
Any of those outcomes would only apply to driving in UK, unless the government wishes to tackle the task of persuading the 135 Signatures to Vienna and other Conventions to recognise the unilateral changes or to change the Convention(s) rules.
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No that isn't correct. Vienna isn't relevant here. See my post above. It would be near impossible for anyone (incl the EU) to do anything, and the answer is right in front of you.

As you know, in 1997, the government changed the rules and stopped automatic C1 entitlement, to align with EU rules. Yet the EU/Vienna signatories were perfectly content to allow British pre-1997 licences to drive big C1 sized vehicles in their countries for the last 26 years, as evidenced by the Funsters wh drive >3500 buses without ever taking a C1 test. The award of categories is a local matter.
 
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I worry that if the 3500 limit is increased it will only be for electric vehicles so that the payload of white van man isn’t taken up by the battery pack.
 
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Badknee said:
I worry that if the 3500 limit is increased it will only be for electric vehicles so that the payload of white van man isn’t taken up by the battery pack.
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It would actually make perfect sense to do that if they aim to increase the take up of electric vans. If they increase the weight limit for all vans it leaves electric ones still at a disadvantage as they would have a lower payload than ICE engined ones.
 
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Badknee said:
I worry that if the 3500 limit is increased it will only be for electric vehicles so that the payload of white van man isn’t taken up by the battery pack.
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I thought they had already announced an increase from 3500kg to 4250kg for electric vans. It seems to have taken the form of a 5 year derogation so is not yet permanent.
www.parkers.co.uk

Gross vehicle weight increased for electric vans

Drivers who hold a standard car licence will now be able to drive a van weighing up to 4.25 tonnes if said van is an alternative fuel vehicle
www.parkers.co.uk www.parkers.co.uk
 
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Thanks for all the comments. It seems nothing is going to change for me in the foreseeable future. I'm off to get the van weighed.

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DDJC said:
No that isn't correct. Vienna isn't relevant here. See my post above. It would be near impossible for anyone (incl the EU) to do anything, and the answer is right in front of you.

As you know, in 1997, the government changed the rules and stopped automatic C1 entitlement, to align with EU rules. Yet the EU/Vienna signatories were perfectly content to allow British pre-1997 licences to drive big C1 sized vehicles in their countries for the last 26 years, as evidenced by the Funsters wh drive >3500 buses without ever taking a C1 test. The award of categories is a local matter.
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Spot on, so long as the licence is legal in the driver's issuing country it's also legal in others when holidaying there.
 
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Badknee said:
I worry that if the 3500 limit is increased it will only be for electric vehicles so that the payload of white van man isn’t taken up by the battery pack.
Click to expand...

I don't know, whether that could happen. If it were, then the purpose of having a 3500kg weight as a cut off, becomes arbitrary. A vehicle weighing 4200kg, weighs 4200kg regardless of reason. The first legal challenge to it, would see any judge asking, what is the difference between an extra weight tolerance for batteries, a HIAB, platform outriggers or a motorhome bodywork?

There is already a rule that vehicles that have had adaptations for disabilities (ramps, lifts etc), can go a bit over the 3500kg mark, and be driven without a C1 licence. Not sure how this stacks up against Vienna, which seeks to define and standardise vehicle categories and maximum permitted mass. Anyone know?

It might be an option for the Government to increase the B1 weight limit to 4500 or 5000kg. However that would go against the Vienna agreement. While varying Vienna might be possible, it would take a decade. Far easier to rescind the 1997 constraint and award C1 to any one who has passed their test post-1997 and is >21 years old and has two years experience. No compromising Vienna and cheap to do.

I don't sign up to the notion that such a move will see thousands of 21 years olds rampaging around our road networks in 7500kg trucks, causing accidents everywhere. For nearly all, it would mean EV vans, safer motorhomes, and fewer vehicles on the road because they can carry more.

I think it is an excellent idea all round.
 
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DDJC said:
I don't know, whether that could happen. If it were, then the purpose of having a 3500kg weight as a cut off, becomes arbitrary. A vehicle weighing 4200kg, weighs 4200kg regardless of reason. The first legal challenge to it, would see any judge asking, what is the difference between an extra weight tolerance for batteries, a HIAB, platform outriggers or a motorhome bodywork?

There is already a rule that vehicles that have had adaptations for disabilities (ramps, lifts etc), can go a bit over the 3500kg mark, and be driven without a C1 licence. Not sure how this stacks up against Vienna, which seeks to define and standardise vehicle categories and maximum permitted mass. Anyone know?

It might be an option for the Government to increase the B1 weight limit to 4500 or 5000kg. However that would go against the Vienna agreement. While varying Vienna might be possible, it would take a decade. Far easier to rescind the 1997 constraint and award C1 to any one who has passed their test post-1997 and is >21 years old and has two years experience. No compromising Vienna and cheap to do.

I don't sign up to the notion that such a move will see thousands of 21 years olds rampaging around our road networks in 7500kg trucks, causing accidents everywhere. For nearly all, it would mean EV vans, safer motorhomes, and fewer vehicles on the road because they can carry more.

I think it is an excellent idea all round.
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I still can't see it happening. The trial is on electric vans so they can carry a worthwhile payload and compete against ICE vans. If that's the case why would they allow across the board weight increases that reinstall the difference in payload between electric vans and conventional engine ones? It would make sense to allow a similar increase for electric powered motorhomes but not all of them.

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Not sure what trial you refer to Wino.

I am talking about the consultation last year, in which the government asked:

Consultation description
During the COVID-19 pandemic and the subsequent HGV driver shortage crisis, the government rapidly put 33 actions in place to address these.

Eight of these actions came from expanding the HGV driver testing capacity and improving the licensing process. The licensing improvements were achievable partly due to the fact that we had left the European Union and had the freedom to change our legislation to improve our testing and licensing regime.

We now wish to explore whether there are any further opportunities that could be available to us. These include whether to grant drivers who have category B car licence entitlement additional entitlement to category C1 (7.5 tonnes) goods vehicle entitlement and whether to grant drivers who have a category B licence entitlement to a minibus category D1 licence.

In addition to other ideas on licence categories, there are proposals to raise the standards of HGV instruction and improve pass rates and to permit a person who has held an HGV category C licence for 2 years to drive PCVs for maintenance and repair purposes.

Any changes would need to ensure continued safe use of our roads and be economically proportionate. That is why we want to hear the views of those who help make our driver licensing regime efficient and safe and be guided by the feedback.

This is about whether we can go back to how it was before UK signed up to a foreign political project.
 
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Does logic ever enter the government equation? As far as I am aware, and I haven’t checked for ages, there is still a difference in speed limits between car based vans and equivalent car, e.g. a Fiesta based van say, isn’t allowed to go as fast as a Fiesta car, even with 4 people and their luggage in it
 
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