What licence do I need to drive a MH over 3500kg? Confused?

[Itsmcb]

I think if my van was 20kgs overweight I would not be the slightest bit worried. However I would be concerned about driving a vehicle class which my license doesn't currently cover. If it had happened in the past then again why worry about it now?

 

[The Dotties]

When did this happen? LGV used to mean LIGHT goods vehicle (under 3'5 tons) and the new PSV is called PCV Passenger CARRYING vehicle?

LARGE goods vehicle, not light.
I used the old description for Buses.
Vehicles above 7.5 tonnes require LGV licence, below that weight is C1

 

[KUSKUS]

Hope you have deep pockets , rather expensive these days to take C1 test.

 

[Itsmcb]

That's helpful from the dealer .
Have you checked your licence entitlements online? You passed your test in the early 1970s so should have a C1 on your licence already, did the dvla miss it off your card when you renewed it maybe?

 

[stevewagner]

We have a Globe car, up rated to 4250 Kg's, just a paper exercise, I also have my C1, it was a long time working it's way through DVLA, about five months, but you are able to continue driving whilst the application is being processed, provided you are not suffering any listed ailments.

The details for up rating are as follows:

J R Consultancy
Bury St Edmonds

01359 250808

01244 544598

I think JR died. Van Weight Engineering are very good and half the price of SV Tech.

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[Hoovie]

Hoovie

In your post (1st one above) you stated;
"If a van is RATED at 3500kg or less, you can drive it on a car (B) licence. It does not matter what it actually weighs"

This statement is wrong, flawed, and incorrect.

If the van has a MAM of 3500kgs, that is the maximum that the vehicle can weigh. Taking your statement at face value, you are stating that the vehicle can be ANY weight (including being over 3500Kgs).

nothing like reading nonsence into a sentence that clearly does not mean that.
you know precisely what I mean and to make it clearer ... if a vehicle is rated at 3500kg or less, you can drive it on a car license no matter what it actually weighs, being mindful that if it is over the rated weight you are likely commiting a separate offence seperate to any driving license categories you may hold.
better, Mr "must learn to comprehend sentences as well as read words"?


To use your own practice of pedantry, you said "If the van has a MAM of 3500kgs, that is the maximum that the vehicle can weigh". Taking that at face value, you are saying it is impossible for it to weigh more. that is nonsense, it can weight ANYTHING. What YOU MEANT to say (and I understood your meaning so wouldn't have needed to point it out) is that it must not weigh more than 3500kg when used on the public highway.

 

[poppycamper]

colyboy just had a look at the photo of license on other thread... Is it yours? and if so I may be wrong here but it looks like you passed your car test 《1975 so I can't understand why you don't have grandpappy rights for C1 !!
What am I missing.!!!

 

[Emmit]

Just to tell the assembled Funsters that Colyboy has started another thread on this subject.

Like me, try to keep up but I'm afraid, as they say on Dragons Den, "I'm out!"

 

[pagey]

me too confused .com

 

[mikebeaches]

This was news to me until fairly recently as well.
Have a look at this .gov website page - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/general-information-assessing-fitness-to-drive . I include the significant parts in the rest of this post....

The key part is this:
"Drivers who were awarded a Group 1 category B (motor car) licence before 1 January 1997 have additional entitlement to categories C1 (medium-sized lorries, 3.5t to 7.5t) and D1 (minibuses, 9 to 16 seats, not for hire or reward). Drivers with this entitlement retain it only until their licence expires or it is revoked for medical reasons. On subsequent renewal or reapplication, the higher medical standards applicable to Group 2 will apply."

The way that reads to me is that as long as you KEEP your C1 entitlement, you fall under the requirements of Group 1

Group 1​

Licences are normally valid until 70 years of age (the ’til 70 licence) unless restricted to a shorter duration for medical reasons.
There is no upper age limit to licensing, but after 70 renewal is required every 3 years.

But if you have it revoked, or let it expire (through choosing to not submit a medical at age 70 general license renewal), you are then subject to the same more stringent rules as commercial drivers as dictated in Group 2 (my emboldening)

Group 2​

The minimum age for Group 2 entitlement to drive lorries (category C) is 21 and for buses (category D) is 24, unless the driver is undergoing or has passed the Driver Certificate of Competence (CPC) initial qualification which they can do at the age of 21. The Group 2 licensing entitlement is valid for a maximum of five years. Group 2 licences must be renewed every 5 years or at age 45, whichever is the earlier, until the age of 65 when they are renewed annually without an upper age limit. Shorter licences may be issued for medical reasons.


I do have a >3500kg MH, so need my C1. But even if I don't have that heavy MH at the point (not so far ahead ) when I would need to do the medical stuff to keep C1, I think I would still renew "just in case" to avoid having to do an annual renewal if I changed my mind later.

And for younger drivers (or maybe older ones who started driving later in life so took their test post 1996) and took a test to allow them to drive a bigger motorhome, the requirements of Group 2 will always apply (which could well be a surprise for them as they may well have assumed (fairly enough) that they are also part of the "renew at 70" brigade).

Thank you for that.

Reading the detail, I do agree with your analysis. And yes, it does come as a surprise.

Had it not been for the current turn-around delays, I might well have applied to keep the C1 - as you say - 'just in case'. But in my own situation, I'm struggling, in reality, to see circumstances where I might need it. In the unlikely situation the position changes ??, then annual applications it will have to be.

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[poppycamper]

Thanks.. that was my confusion. Could not understand why he would need to sit test.!!

He gave up his C1 . So should be able to get it back....

 

[Hoovie]

Thank you for that.

Reading the detail, I do agree with your analysis. And yes, it does come as a surprise.

Had it not been for the current turn-around delays, I might well have applied to keep the C1 - as you say - 'just in case'. But in my own situation, I'm struggling, in reality, to see circumstances where I might need it. In the unlikely situation the position changes ??, then annual applications it will have to be.

If I happen to still have my current motorhome when I hit 70 (and I hope both events happen! ) then I'll apply for C1 retention for sure, but if I don't get to keep it, no biggie really either, just downrate back to 3500 and loose some weight

I guess the people who it could really impact are those with the super large A classes based on 'proper' trucks and not chassis cabs.

 

[Two on Tour]

I think JR died. Van Weight Engineering are very good and half the price of SV Tech.

Correct, John died last year.

 

[Pausim]

colyboy if your motorhome is registered with a Revenue weight of 3500kg or less as shown on your V5C then you are probably breaking the law by being overloaded. You will not be the only one. If your vehicle is registered with a Revenue weight of over 3500kg then you are in the serious territory of driving a vehicle without a license, which probably means you are not insured either.

 

[Nanniemate]

I assume you mean this thread: https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/weight-confused.252542/

You don't have a licence to drive over 3500kg but that's not the issue here as your MH is registered at 3500kg max so it needs to lose weight, assuming it was in full 'holiday trim' then you're only 20kg over so I don't think it would be difficult to lose that small amount ... you'll need to decide what you will miss less!

eat less cake and loose weight , that's what someone suggest for just 20kg's

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[Hoovie]

Are you aware that if you relinquish C1 and then later get it back the rules to retain are different? e.g. a medical and renewal on an annual basis after 70, not every 3 years?

????

When was this introduced?
I know of certainly one Funster who applied retrospectively to get his C1 back after relinquishing at 70yrs and it wasn't demanded that he reapply every year.

Read this post - https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...3500kg-and-very-confused.252584/#post-4773401 - and click on the link to the uk .gov page.

Having no current medical problems except old age, I was led to believe that after I turned 70yrs old,
IF I wanted to retain my C1 ONLY, I would need a medical every THREE YEARS but
IF I wished to keep my full PSV & HGV, I would need a medical EVERY YEAR?

Why should this change if I want my licence entitlements back?

Why should it change? Click on the UK .gov link in the posr linked above and send a question to the authorities that decide these things.

 

[Emmit]

Read this post - https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...3500kg-and-very-confused.252584/#post-4773401 - and click on the link to the uk .gov page.


Why should it change? Click on the UK .gov link in the posr linked above and send a question to the authorities that decide these things.

You previously posted this (as part of the Gov.uk website,)
"On subsequent renewal or reapplication, the higher medical standards applicable to Group 2 will apply."

What has the medical standard required in obtaining the licence have to do with the period of time that the licence is valid for?

 

[Hoovie]

You previously posted this (as part of the Gov.uk website,)
"On subsequent renewal or reapplication, the higher medical standards applicable to Group 2 will apply."

What has the medical standard required in obtaining the licence have to do with the period of time that the licence is valid for?

read the website page. don't ask me, ask the government. not my rules.

 

[Emmit]

read the website page. don't ask me, ask the government.

I have read the Gov. site and would respectfully suggest that you have fallen into the trap of confusing 'Medical Standard' with the period of the length of a licence.

When one attains 70 yrs of age, and wish to continue driving cars and motorcycles, what medical standard does one have to attain to continue driving?
The answer is None. (other than the ability to read a No. Plate at either 67ft or 75ft) You apply for your licence and it is duly returned by DVLA.

However, if one has Grandad rights and one wishes to maintain the ability to hold a licence to drive, for instance, "

• "Group 2 includes large lorries (category C) and buses (category D)" (Gov.uk words)

then one has to submit to a higher standard of medical fitness.
That is why we all have to jump through the hoops of having a medical to continue to drive .3.5T vans.

The 'Higher Standard' of medical has nothing to do with the length of the grant of a licence. It is the class of vehicle
that would be a factor in the length of a licence.
In the case of C1, that is three years.

 

[sueandjohn]

Just to tell the assembled Funsters that Colyboy has started another thread on this subject.

Like me, try to keep up but I'm afraid, as they say on Dragons Den, "I'm out!"

Don’t blame you either!!

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[Pausim]

Read this post - https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...3500kg-and-very-confused.252584/#post-4773401 - and click on the link to the uk .gov page.


Why should it change? Click on the UK .gov link in the posr linked above and send a question to the authorities that decide these things.

I have read the advice in the link which says that after your licence expires (age 70) the medical standard for a C1 go from Group 1 to Group 2. This means using the D2/D4 form procedure which has been posted about many times. I can’t see anything that suggests a change to the normal 3 year license. I know some unlucky people only get 1 year because of special health reasons but again this is nothing new. Where are you seeing this new 1 year license rule. I can’t find it.

 

[mitzimad]

colyboy is like lightening he never strikes twice

 

[Riverbankannie]

The 'Higher Standard' of medical has nothing to do with the length of the grant of a licence. It is the class of vehicle
that would be a factor in the length of a licence.
In the case of C1, that is three years.

No, unfortunately that is not the case, Husband jumped through the hoops and the medical and got the C1 at 70 but only for one year, after a 1 year fight.
However, I got it for 3 years after a 9 month fight.

 

[Riverbankannie]

colyboy is like lightening he never strikes twice

Don’t you mean, always strikes twice and starts 2 threads. That’s harder than just replying to his first thread - you have to admire that !

 

[Phill D]

Just to tell the assembled Funsters that Colyboy has started another thread on this subject.

Like me, try to keep up but I'm afraid, as they say on Dragons Den, "I'm out!"

Reading through the thread i can see why he may have started a new thread....

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[pappajohn]

Just to tell the assembled Funsters that Colyboy has started another thread on this subject.

Like me, try to keep up but I'm afraid, as they say on Dragons Den, "I'm out!"

Nothing new there then.
I'm afraid Coly often starts a thread then rarely revisits it

 

[busby]

If you had it up plated you should easily be able for to downplays it back to 3.500 so your licence will be fine. You’ll just have less payload.

Or no payload.BUSBY.

 

[Emmit]

No, unfortunately that is not the case, Husband jumped through the hoops and the medical and got the C1 at 70 but only for one year, after a 1 year fight.
However, I got it for 3 years after a 9 month fight.

Yes, but that was because of the DVLA deciding that as a a result of hubbies medical, they would only issue a 1 yr licence.
The 1yr. licence is not the norm. and as posted elsewhere, one can have the most eminent Consultant on your side,
those 'experts' without any medical qualifications can go down their own path and make their own decisions.

 

[poppycamper]

Nothing new there then.
I'm afraid Coly often starts a thread then rarely revisits it

So why do we think that is, then??

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

So why do we think that is, then??

Maybe he just forgets,like retaining his C1.

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