Well done the French health service!

[Odd-no-more]

Or to make illegal any type of private medical operations therefore making nhs work the only way ?

Unfortunately that would only make the NHS more complacent, the rich would go abroad for treatment and the rest of us would suffer even more. Ironically due to Covid, we may actually get other providers in, as the NHS is now so far behind that it will take years to get back to the "normal" long waiting times we have got used to. Politicians do need to be honest (unlikely) and tell people it will cost more, most would pay extra if we could get treatment as fast as the rest of Europe guaranteed.

 

[Ingwe]

Agreed. However, this has been said many times before, and not just by me.
"The NHS is not underfunded: it is over managed and badly so!"

The only meaningful statistic for comparing health systems is spending per head. This shows that the UK ranks pretty poorly when compared with the rest of Europe, even with those so-called poorer countries like Spain, Portugal and Italy. This from the ONS with my emphasis:

1.Main points​

• In 2017, the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare, which was around the median for members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development: OECD (£2,913 per person).
• However, of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736).
• As a percentage of GDP, UK healthcare spending fell from 9.8% in 2013 to 9.6% in 2017, while healthcare spending as a percentage of GDP rose for four of the remaining six G7 countries.
• The UK’s publicly funded NHS-based health system contributes to the UK having one of the highest shares of publicly funded healthcare (79%) in the OECD.
• In 2017, the UK spent the equivalent of £560 per person on health-related long-term care, which was less than most other northern or western European countries, but a similar amount to France (£569) and Canada (£556).

 

[Barryh]

Actually you are mistaken, what you describe is the situation we have at the moment. Friends who needed hip replacements were offered one in 2 to 3 years with the NHS but next week if they paid privately, which they both did at approx. £13,000 each. What we need is alternative providers to come in and do NHS work for the same cost as the NHS, this would help reduce the waiting times and give the NHS some competition which may go some way to making them a little more efficient. I don't care if the new providers are Americans or Martians as long as I get the treatment I need.

This is such a complicated and misunderstood subject. I speak from my own experience but primarily from my wife who has been both a clinician and a manager in the NHS.

The surgeons performing the operations are mostly same ones working in the NHS. Paid and trained by you the taxpayer. So the “day” job is working in the NHS, then off to the private hospital to do the lucrative private patients. It doesn’t need a great leap of thinking to realise that long waiting lists are beneficial. And you’d be surprised at how many patients are treated in a session privately compared to a similar session in the NHS. And you’ve now got the £billions promised to sort out waiting times and that’ll be hips, knees and cataracts etc. So that’ll be involving the private sector then and guess who benefits.

Nobody will do the work for the same as the NHS that’s a fact, that’s despite the NHS having all the back up facilities of a proper hospital for when stuff goes wrong.

Tony Blair was the man that almost got it sorted with his targets. My wife set up a cataract service with a bus, in one end with cataracts out the other without cataracts, using a South African company and their surgeons. Their throughput far exceeded their NHS counterparts. So here we go again, I can’t do you for 2 years but if you want to pay me I can do it next week.

It’s a bit of a rant and it’s over.

 

[busby]

I have only used the health services in France and Spain whilst abroad, both were far better than the poor old (and underfunded) NHS

Same here..BUSBY.

 

[stevewagner]

I went to Specsavers on the Tuesday. The optician referred me to the eye hospital. I got a phone call from Harrogate hospital the next day Wednesday and an appointment that afternoon 2.55pm. All just precautionary. colyboy I hope your wife is ok.

I had exactly the sale happen to me - fantastic response with immediate treatment, all on the NHS.

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[maison]

It was announced today that, following the £34 billion cash injection into the NHS, (or whatever the exact amount is), 42 new managers have been appointed to introduce change at a salary of £270,000pa each!

No doubt they will also require new office accommodation, staff etc.

 

[PJGWiltshire]

It was announced today that, following the £34 billion cash injection into the NHS, (or whatever the exact amount is), 42 new managers have been appointed to introduce change at a salary of £270,000pa each!

No doubt they will also require new office accommodation, staff etc.

The NHS is a public service. No public employee should be paid more than the head of the public service (The Prime Minister) It does not matter where you sit in your politics but its nuts that a person responsible for setting all this off gets paid far less then the bean counters all over. Pay less than £150,000 you will still get the same staff working for the NHS or other public service (local Councils) who else is going to give these people the jobs. Not the private sector they would flat on their faces.

 

[Sapper520]

This is such a complicated and misunderstood subject. I speak from my own experience but primarily from my wife who has been both a clinician and a manager in the NHS.

The surgeons performing the operations are mostly same ones working in the NHS. Paid and trained by you the taxpayer. So the “day” job is working in the NHS, then off to the private hospital to do the lucrative private patients. It doesn’t need a great leap of thinking to realise that long waiting lists are beneficial. And you’d be surprised at how many patients are treated in a session privately compared to a similar session in the NHS. And you’ve now got the £billions promised to sort out waiting times and that’ll be hips, knees and cataracts etc. So that’ll be involving the private sector then and guess who benefits.

Nobody will do the work for the same as the NHS that’s a fact, that’s despite the NHS having all the back up facilities of a proper hospital for when stuff goes wrong.

Tony Blair was the man that almost got it sorted with his targets. My wife set up a cataract service with a bus, in one end with cataracts out the other without cataracts, using a South African company and their surgeons. Their throughput far exceeded their NHS counterparts. So here we go again, I can’t do you for 2 years but if you want to pay me I can do it next week.

It’s a bit of a rant and it’s over.

My wife worked in a Hospital that, to bring down waiting lists on knee and hip replacements, contracted a team from Sweden……the problems they left behind took the hospital a long time to put right.

 

[Barryh]

My wife worked in a Hospital that, to bring down waiting lists on knee and hip replacements, contracted a team from Sweden……the problems they left behind took the hospital a long time to put right.

Unfortunately there will be good and less good teams brought in from abroad, just as there are good and and less good hospitals here in the UK.

I should have also said that in this case, as well as treating more cataracts than their NHS equivalents, the South African teams had the same quality outcomes as the NHS hospitals in the region.

 

[Geistguy]

My personal experience and opinion is that our dear NHS is becoming an emergency treatment service. In May I had a bad fall, Helimed flew to collect me, their treatment on arrival probably saved my foot, within an hour I was in A&E, 24 hours later I'd had 3 operations. I am still immobile but at all of my outpatient appointments I have been seen within 10 minutes of my allotted time. Everyone involved has been efficient, friendly and highly professional.

On the other hand I have given up on seeing my GP, if I need elective surgery I know I will pay myself.

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[george w menzies]

The French health service is superior (on all internationally recognised measures) to the NHS. I registered with a small town GP the other week, she required blood tests. We walked to the town's laboratory, tests were done on demand, results within 4 hours. It's just the way things are done. Similarly if you need a scan it'll be done in a day or two max wait with results and consultation immediately afterwards. Simples. Makes me wonder why these things take weeks or months in the UK.
but they coudnt fix the eye
Yes you pay a contribution for some services but most people have an insurance that covers that element.