Water dump in cold weather

[EdwardFT]

I spent last night on an aire with electricity so I ran stand-alone electric heating and not gas. Trouble is, the built-in gas heating heats up the wardrobe and underfloor, but a stand-alone electric heater doesn't. So the boiler dump valve activated and out went all the water.
I am trying to think of a way of keeping the underfloor areas warm enough without just using gas. It seems to me that if I run the electric heater but also switch on the gas on a low temperature, the electric heating will warm up the MH and so the gas heating will not fire up. But if I have a higher temperature on the gas thermostat than on the electric heater thermostat, the electric heater will not come on and I will jus5 be heating by gas.
Is there a trick to this?

 

[EdwardFT]

Hmm, I'll answer it myself:
1. The way that involves work. Put another thermostat underfloor.
2. The safety plan that involves no work. Put a remote thermometer underfloor, with an alarm. I risk being woken up in the night, but not losing my boiler.
3. The workaround. Put the electric heating on a timer to come on before I get up. Put the gas on low overnight. Stay under the duvet.

 

[glenn2926]

Turn your water pump off overnight so that you only lose the contents of the boiler not all your water.

 

[Lenny HB]

Run the boiler just on hot water should work assuming the dump valve is fairly near the boiler.

 

[Lenny HB]

Turn your water pump off overnight so that you only lose the contents of the boiler not all your water.

If the tank is higher than the valve it will drain it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[glenn2926]

If the tank is higher than the valve it will drain it.

Doh!! Never thought of that as mine isn’t. Running the boiler just on hot water works though as you said. I have done this in the past when my motorhome was more than a garden ornament.

 

[EdwardFT]

Actually I have a microswitch-activated pump so I did indeed lose only the contents of the boiler.
However I was imprecise in my original post. What I really have in mind is twofold: to save the boiler, and to avoid freezing anywhere else between floors, for example the grey water outlet, which is a tap inside an outside locker, with a little blown-air pipe pointing at it.
It is true that just running the boiler on gas would keep it warm, and the dump valve is right beside it inside the hot wardrobe, so that would save the boiler. I'll do it right now..... And as for the other underfloor stuff, it is probably less risky, so I could set a thermometer alarm and see how it goes.

 

[Compactliner]

I can see your issue but I'm assuming your heating system (Alde/Truma) is gas only...otherwise you'd obviously be running it on electric??
However, if confined to gas and you have refillable, just have gas on Eco set pretty low but warm enough to keep you warm...then fill up cheaply when you need to.

 

[Lenny HB]

You can get a heating coller for the dump valve it's about 40 quid but I think it only works when the boiler is on.

 

[EdwardFT]

I can see your issue but I'm assuming your heating system (Alde/Truma) is gas only...otherwise you'd obviously be running it on electric??
However, if confined to gas and you have refillable, just have gas on Eco set pretty low but warm enough to keep you warm...then fill up cheaply when you need to.

That is so. Yes, I could do that, but it is basically heating by gas while paying for electric but not using it. I have a Gaslow 11kg bottle but it only lasts 4 or 5 days in zero weather if I am on gas only. Current temperature outside is minus 2.

Part of the problem with that may be that since I retired, this is the first European winter that I have seen for 6 years, coinciding with my fulltiming which is really 3-season fulltiming. Until this year. My idea of what keeping myself warm means does call for quite a bit of heat.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[62272]

Have you thought of fitting a low wattage electric tube heater (element) the types used in garages, in the boiler enclosure? Could wire it into a 240v plug, when you are hooked up? Just a thought, as I will have the same problem being on gas only truma system.

 

[Landy Andy]

I see things slightly differently to most it appears.

If my frost valve pops, then I would think “that has saved my boiler from being damaged by freezing”, I wouldn’t try and stop the frost valve doing it’s job, other than heating the van, and as so the water pipes by using the boiler.

I wouldn’t use an electric heater to save a few ££ of gas, but put pipes, or my boiler at risk.

 

[autorouter]

The fan inside the gas heater pulls in air from the MH interior, heats it and distributes it by blowing it out through the ducts. Can you run the fan without the gas heating being on? You could put your electric heater next to the inlet, and the warm air would be sent down the ducting.

 

[EdwardFT]

I see things slightly differently to most it appears.

If my frost valve pops, then I would think “that has saved my boiler from being damaged by freezing”, I wouldn’t try and stop the frost valve doing it’s job, other than heating the van, and as so the water pipes by using the boiler.

I wouldn’t use an electric heater to save a few ££ of gas, but put pipes, or my boiler at risk.

certainly I have no intention of stopping the frost valve from doing its job, my thoughts are to keep things warm and avoid frost, but if possible by using the electricity that I am paying for, when I do have it.

The gas isn't expensive but it Is a visible factor in my tight budget. If I have to pay for gas heating anyway then it will have to come from somewhere else, for example I will stay on Aires with electricity less often. I am fulltiming so it is a matter of cost per day, and even a few quid/euros is noticeable if it is every day.

 

[EdwardFT]

Have you thought of fitting a low wattage electric tube heater (element) the types used in garages, in the boiler enclosure? Could wire it into a 240v plug, when you are hooked up? Just a thought, as I will have the same problem being on gas only truma system.

I have had these in houses before, why didn't I think of that?

Maybe because my thoughts were originally about heating the underfloor area, and there wouldn't be space there for a heater. But it is a good idea.

Actually I would have thought that having the hot water switched on would keep the boiler warm enough that the valve warm enough too, it is beside the boiler. I can only think that I left the water heating off by accident. (That could happen because I have to switch off the electric heater and the hot water for a few minutes when I use the coffee machine, to avoid tripping the supply).

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Northernraider]

There are two methods to this i use

Method 1 ...try and stay out of cold countries over winter
Method 2 leave hot water on 24/7 when temperatures are low ... doesn't use that much gas to be fair.

But then i dont use campsites so im not hooked up to electric and the money saved can buy lots of gas.

 

[EdwardFT]

There are two methods to this i use

Method 1 ...try and stay out of cold countries over winter
Method 2 leave hot water on 24/7 when temperatures are low ... doesn't use that much gas to be fair.

But then i dont use campsites so im not hooked up to electric and the money saved can buy lots of gas.

I have done Method 1 for years but this year I can't, alas.
I think I will try Method 2, together with a remote temperature sensor (with alarm) so that I can keep an eye on it.

There are always trade offs and maybe I should just do something else. I mostly don't use campsites but I have used paying Aires more in the freezing cold, thinking that having electricity would be worth it.
Tradeoff 1: your Method 2.
Tradeoff 2: I can't go to the Southern Hemisphere this winter, but I am in France so I could take myself off to the Med. In France it is not as warm as I could hope in February, but it is not freezing. However being in Normand did fit my calendar.
Attitude rather than tradeoff: just accept it, it is not as bad as it looks. It is only for periods of freezing weather, nit for the whole year. And when on hookup I only need the gas on at night, not all day.

 

[The Lord Squid]

You can get a heating coller for the dump valve it's about 40 quid but I think it only works when the boiler is on.

 

[Krumpli]

I insulated my water pump after a silly moment when the damned thing froze as we were driving through Germany and Austria. I part filled a plastic bag with expanding foam (used for household insulation and crack filling). Before the foam expanded I wedged the plastic bag around the essential water parts. In five minutes the foam had covered all that I wanted... plus a bit of cleaning up.

 

[M50]

Just to confirm your heating and water heating work only by gas

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[The Old Man]

On the funny? side;

When I first got my van I knew little about how it worked, including the water safety release valve.

I was Freedom Camping in a retail park estate, close to a Toby Carvery. Parked on tarmac at the bottom of the estate, in a nice quiet little dip.

Overnight the valve dumped both water tanks under the van.

At first it didn't cause me any problems as the Toby was open fo Buffet Breakfasts.

However when returned to the van and ready to leave I discovered that I was now parked in the middle of a shallow frozen lake!

Started the engine, engaged gear, lifted the clutch and sat there with the wheels spinning!

It took a couple of hours fo the sun to come up and melt the ice rink.

 

[EdwardFT]

Just to confirm your heating and water heating work only by gas

Heating only by gas. Water also by electricity.

 

[Krumpli]

MY water heating is gas only. Good old GasIt.

 

[M50]

Thanks for your reply I was being inquisitive never come across that type of system before
I guess you know it’s triggered to open at approx 3 deg
tubular heaters do get hot to the touch we used to fit wire guards over them in the schools we fitted them in so be careful
good luck

 

[EdwardFT]

Just as an information comment, at 10pm tonight it was minus 5 outside. On electric heat only, it was a toasty 23 inside, but I only had plus 5 beside the boiler, and plus 1.5 underfloor.

I turned on the gas heating, and turned off the electric so as not to confuse the thermostat. In 20 minutes I had 19 beside the boiler and 12 underfloor.

I reckon I don't need a solution for all year, but on a cold night I just have to bite the bullet and go full gas. Or be in Thailand.