Victron Orion XS - Scratching Head

[PeaBea]

Hi all, newbie here

I've got some strange behaviour with my Orion XS on my 2025 Ducato-based Adria PVC.

Vanbitz just installed an Orion XS, 280ah fogstar, Victron smartshunt, MPPT and charger, and a battery master. Tidy job as always. However, what seems to be happening (engine off) is the XS kicks in as the starter voltage rises due to the battery master adding charge. It then cuts out as the starter voltage drops. Amps are fairly low, unlike when the engine is running, but I don't feel the XS should be running at all when the engine is off.

On the XS, a D+ feed was installed (I can see it coming out of the H terminal) but Engine Shutdown Detection is also turned on. Vanbitz said this needs to be on, and is due to the low voltages of these modern engines, even though there's a D+. If I turn off Engine Shutdown Detection, the B2B kicks in fully when the engine is off, so the D+ isn't doing anything.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[MichaelT]

Doesn't sound right, B2B should only come on with engine running.

You will have a smart alternator so D+ is best as far as I understand and on mine it's set to engine shutdown detection is Off.

Assuming it's all wired correct way round,maybe some pics of install and your settings may help.

 

[Lenny HB]

If switching with D+ engine shutdown detection must be turned off.

 

[PeaBea]

Well I tracked the D+ wire back to the near previous Lippert B2B. Vanbitz picked it up from here. I put a meter on it, and it only shows voltage when the engine is running, which is correct.

 

[PeaBea]

If switching with D+ engine shutdown detection must be turned off.

Yes, that's the issue. The B2B continues to operate, even if I turn this setting off.

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[PeaBea]

It seems that this is a common issue with the most modern engines (section 4.3): https://www.victronenergy.com/media...tml#UUID-19e0598f-fec3-d1e3-4242-0b2dcc95fa4c

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

Offgrid Power Systems video covers XS settings in detail

 

[AdrianChen]

Yes, that's the issue. The B2B continues to operate, even if I turn this setting off.

If you remove the little plug with the d+ connection, does the b2b still run?

I assume the jumper loop has been removed between H and L, and the D+ is not a negative version but positive?

 

[PeaBea]

If you remove the little plug with the d+ connection, does the b2b still run?

I assume the jumper loop has been removed between H and L, and the D+ is not a negative version but positive?

Problem resolved. Although a D+ was added, the installer had not removed the jumper. I couldn't initially see this due its low position, but when you suggested removing the plug to test if it still runs, I spotted it.

Jumper removed, battery shutdown detection switched off, and B2B now turns on and off with the engine. I'll feed this back to Vanbitz.

Thank you so much!

 

[Peavy]

Related to the D+ control...
I've also installed an Orion XS in my van.
I use the D+ to shutdown the charging, but, what about the Input voltage lock-out setting?
In the manual:
"When ‘forced charging’ is enabled, current will be drawn from the starterbattery if the engine is not running."
During ‘forced charging’ the input voltage lockout is the only limit left to disable charging automatically, makesure this level is not set too low, in most applications 12.5V is sufficiently low.
Setting the lock-out level very low or deactivating the input voltage lock-out can result in a depleted starterbattery."
Do any of you D+ users with the Orion XS have any thoughts on this setting?
Why does the manual state that if the engine is not running (no D+), current will be drawn from the starter battery?
Does the manual refer to parasitic or minimum current (bluetooth, etc.) to keep it barely alive?

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[AdrianChen]

Mine is set to 12.5v - "Forced charging" requires a voltage to be applied to the L pin, and since there is no connection to it on my setup, it should never occur.

 

[treblid]

Related to the D+ control...
I've also installed an Orion XS in my van.
I use the D+ to shutdown the charging, but, what about the Input voltage lock-out setting?
In the manual:
"When ‘forced charging’ is enabled, current will be drawn from the starterbattery if the engine is not running."
During ‘forced charging’ the input voltage lockout is the only limit left to disable charging automatically, makesure this level is not set too low, in most applications 12.5V is sufficiently low.
Setting the lock-out level very low or deactivating the input voltage lock-out can result in a depleted starterbattery."
Do any of you D+ users with the Orion XS have any thoughts on this setting?
Why does the manual state that if the engine is not running (no D+), current will be drawn from the starter battery?
Does the manual refer to parasitic or minimum current (bluetooth, etc.) to keep it barely alive?
View attachment 1041656

'Forced Charging' is what it says on the tin. If you use it, you are forcing the charger to operate when the engine is stopped.
The "input voltage lock out" settings are a fail safe to ensure you cannot fully deplete the starter battery if you choose to use this feature.
Forced Charging will not occur on its own.

 

[jumar]

Vanbitz is a member of this Forum..let's see his take on this..
And as you have been successfully sorted by very helpful members...perhaps you too could become a paid up member and help others in return.

 

[Peavy]

What about the draining current?
I'm reading 0.1A in both input and output from the Orion when is not working. This is draining from the starter battery. Do you guys have similar readings?

 

[AdrianChen]

What about the draining current?
I'm reading 0.1A in both input and output from the Orion when is not working. This is draining from the starter battery. Do you guys have similar readings?

Pretty sure not! But tomorrow I will check.....

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[LithiumConvert]

For the benefit of funsters who are thinking of installing a B2B

As the voice on the Smarty advert says "What a load of Malarky"

Why not fit a B2B which simply just does what it says on the box - with a D+ signal?
Nothing else is needed.

The Schaudt WA121545, as fitted by Hymer, works well. No complicated settings.
No bluetooth to get in the way - it just works with D+

The sterling power BB1230 also works well out of the box using D+ control.
No bluetooth to get in the way - it just works.

I am sure there must be others. Any recommendations?

 

[MichaelT]

For the benefit of funsters who are thinking of installing a B2B
As the voice on the Smarty advert says "What a load of Malarky"

Why not fit a B2B which simply just does what it says on the box - with a D+ signal?
Nothing else is needed.

The Schaudt WA121545, as fitted by Hymer, works well. No complicated settings.
No bluetooth to get in the way - it just works with D+

The sterling power BB1230 also works well out of the box using D+ control.
No bluetooth to get in the way - it just works.

I am sure there must be others. Any recommendations?

My Victron 50a one.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

For the benefit of funsters who are thinking of installing a B2B

As the voice on the Smarty advert says "What a load of Malarky"

Why not fit a B2B which simply just does what it says on the box - with a D+ signal?
Nothing else is needed.

The Schaudt WA121545, as fitted by Hymer, works well. No complicated settings.
No bluetooth to get in the way - it just works with D+

The sterling power BB1230 also works well out of the box using D+ control.
No bluetooth to get in the way - it just works.

I am sure there must be others. Any recommendations?

Is it not that with recent vehicles with smart alternators and charge management that there is no easily usable D+ signal?

 

[Richard n Ann]

Is it not that with recent vehicles with smart alternators and charge management that there is no easily usable D+ signal?

I took my signal off the fridge relay