Victron - Clayton - why not eco flow - newbie

Ads86

Ads86

Joined
Mar 3, 2024
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Cathago E Line I47
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Hello all.

I'm getting quotes this week for an electrical upgrade on my 2011 carthago e chic I47 which I pick up on Thursday. We plan to full time in the motorhome for 9 months of the year and it currently has no solar and 2 lead acid batteries.

However I keep seeing videos of you tubers using power banks to power their 240v systems off grid and it's got me thinking.

Rather than a fixed in system (victron) surely there's a benefit to an almost plug and play system in case any items go faulty?

So please tell me what would stop me from just buying two eco flow delta max or similar (on black Friday deals) and plugging these into the sure power when I pull in order to use 240v. I could just strap them into the garage area. Also I would have solar plugged in along with the eco flow super charger from the alternator to keep them topped up.

Would it be more cost effective? I'm getting victron quotes in excess of 7k and more for the Clayton system.

Again, total newbie so please tell me if I'm getting this totally wrong, I won't be offended 😃

Thanks for any help

Adam
 
Black Friday deals may make it more cost effective than it generally is but you loose the ability to replace individual pieces of kit if they go wrong. The theory is sound. Might need to pay attention to payload. I don’t know enough about the ecoflow but wish there was a similar charger for the anker. If it works for you, do it. 7k sounds very excessive for lithium, b2b, on board Charger and solar. I would have thought 2/3k. Maybe price up with Off Grid Solutions ?
 
I wouldn't consider a power pack that wasn't LiFePO4.

It's certainly possible.

But get a quote from Offgrid Power Solutions as well, I believe there is also a funster discount.
 
For your use I would go with a permanent setup with Victron gear, Victron give a 5 year warranty. If a powerbank goes down you have lost everything.
That Eco Max is only 800 watts a 300ah Lithium battery is 3,800 watts.

Talk to RogerIvy at Off Grid Power Solutions They will fit a good quality system with Victron components for about half what you have been quoted and their work is top notch. You also get a Funster discount.

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Ads86 said:
Hello all.

I'm getting quotes this week for an electrical upgrade on my 2011 carthago e chic I47 which I pick up on Thursday. We plan to full time in the motorhome for 9 months of the year and it currently has no solar and 2 lead acid batteries.

However I keep seeing videos of you tubers using power banks to power their 240v systems off grid and it's got me thinking.

Rather than a fixed in system (victron) surely there's a benefit to an almost plug and play system in case any items go faulty?

So please tell me what would stop me from just buying two eco flow delta max or similar (on black Friday deals) and plugging these into the sure power when I pull in order to use 240v. I could just strap them into the garage area. Also I would have solar plugged in along with the eco flow super charger from the alternator to keep them topped up.

Would it be more cost effective? I'm getting victron quotes in excess of 7k and more for the Clayton system.

Again, total newbie so please tell me if I'm getting this totally wrong, I won't be offended 😃

Thanks for any help

Adam
Click to expand...

You could fit a couple of EcoFlos into your system.

I was talking to someone last year who thinks that makers will stop supplying batteries and just supply a place for you to plug in your EcoFloJackery thing. That probably makes sense for makers, it will keep their costs down and payload up.

FWIW I would rather have an invisible fitted system that will provide so much more power and a lot less hassle.
 
There is still a lot of confusion on here about watts and watt-hours. The amount of energy stored in a battery is measured in watt-hours. For example the Ecoflow Delta Max 1600 has an energy capacity of 1600 watt-hours (Wh). Battery capacity can also be stated in amp-hours (Ah), which is the charge capacity. You have to know the battery voltage to calculate the energy capacity: just multiply the charge capacity by the voltage to get the energy capacity. Watt-hours = amp-hours x voltage.

Watts is the rate that you are taking out or putting in energy. The Ecoflow Delta Max 1600 has an inverter which has a power of up to 2400W. The battery is 1600Wh, so if you took out energy at the rate of 1600W it would last one hour, in theory. If you are taking 2400 watts from a 1600 watt-hour battery it will last for 1600 / 2400 = 2/3 hours = 40 minutes in theory. Similarly if you took out 160W, it would last for 1600 / 160 = 10 hours.

It's the same when you are charging it up. If you have a 2000W mains charger, it will in theory charge it up from flat in 1600 / 2000 = 0.8 hours = 48 minutes. The solar input is 10A max so w 20V solar panel will charge at 200W max, so will take 1600/200 = 8 hours to charge from flat.

Mains appliances used in a motorhome are usually items like a hairdryer, coffee machine or air fryer, that take quite high power for a very short time, a few minutes only. A laptop charger takes low power for a much longer time. However a laptop charger will power the laptop at full power while also charging its batteries up. Once the batteries are fully charged, the power requirements drop considerably. The power stated on the charger label is a maximum, not necessarily the long-term power usage.
 
Ads86 said:
Hello all.

I'm getting quotes this week for an electrical upgrade on my 2011 carthago e chic I47 which I pick up on Thursday. We plan to full time in the motorhome for 9 months of the year and it currently has no solar and 2 lead acid batteries.

However I keep seeing videos of you tubers using power banks to power their 240v systems off grid and it's got me thinking.

Rather than a fixed in system (victron) surely there's a benefit to an almost plug and play system in case any items go faulty?

So please tell me what would stop me from just buying two eco flow delta max or similar (on black Friday deals) and plugging these into the sure power when I pull in order to use 240v. I could just strap them into the garage area. Also I would have solar plugged in along with the eco flow super charger from the alternator to keep them topped up.

Would it be more cost effective? I'm getting victron quotes in excess of 7k and more for the Clayton system.

Again, total newbie so please tell me if I'm getting this totally wrong, I won't be offended 😃

Thanks for any help

Adam
Click to expand...
If you strap them in the garage area wouldn't you have a Very long cable run to charge them from the alternator? It would presumably then be either very slow or require a considerable cable thickness to cope? When you say you would have solar plugged in how if you have no solar at present or are you thinking of putting solar on the roof with a solar feed to where you're thinking of putting the power banks if so you will of course have the cost of installing the panels and cables.
Are you thinking of taking out the power packs every time you stop or running a cable from them to the 240 v system how would you arrange switching the 240 v between them and the mains hook up for when you are on grid?
I'd get some different quotes and then try and think of how it's all going to work and any hassle involved if I were using it full time ideally I'd want it to involve a minimum of hassle and no moving things around. It's different with someone usually a home converted camper just at weekends id definitely see the advantages of a power pack then
 
For 9 months of the year live in use there is only one way to go - a permanent LiFePo4 installation and in terms of the capacity for that on all elements do some maths then add a few percent to allow for later new equipment and uses so your system is future proof.

You will likely not recover the full cost of your installation on a resale but you will have a far more convenient installation for live in life (and make the van an attractive proposition on resale)

I am at the opposite end of the scale from you. I work fulltime and the van is used mainly for holidays in Europe limited by my five weeks or so of annual leave. Given the age of the van an Ecoflow Delta 2 makes perfect sense for me and throwing the thick end of £5k at a full LiFePo4 installation would make no sense - all the more so given the age of my vehicle.
 
Since the ecoflow alternator charger came out, I've seen a few home-made campervans with an ecoflow installed for all the 240v stuff.

It fills a gap for people who want a little mains power when out and about, but don't want an expensive permanently fixed solution.

It works for me - I can do most things off LPG and 12v/solar. But just need a little power to run a coffee machine, hair dryer and induction hob. A Delta 2 suits me well.

But if I were planning to live in the van for 9 months of the year, I'd probably go to a permanent system.
 
If you had a petrol generator, you would probably fit a changeover switch to switch between mains hookup power and generator power. The changeover switch can be manual or automatic. If it's automatic, it could switch to mains hookup power as soon as the hookup is connected. You could easily have exactly the same arrangement for your power banks, so there would be no need to remember to switch anything, and you would always have mains power available
 
This is exactly why I joined this forum. Thanks ever so much.

Decision made, fixed system. I'll contact the recommend people as well.

Cheers everybody much appreciated 👍
 
You are very welcome. Most of us have had great assistance from this forum when stumbling through the early stages of ownership or improvement. I certainly did!

Do take advantage of Motorhome Fun discounts when getting the work done. You will need to make reference when getting a telephone quote etc:

MotorhomeFun Discounts

www.motorhomefun.co.uk www.motorhomefun.co.uk

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Ads86 said:
Hello all.

I'm getting quotes this week for an electrical upgrade on my 2011 carthago e chic I47 which I pick up on Thursday. We plan to full time in the motorhome for 9 months of the year and it currently has no solar and 2 lead acid batteries.

However I keep seeing videos of you tubers using power banks to power their 240v systems off grid and it's got me thinking.

Rather than a fixed in system (victron) surely there's a benefit to an almost plug and play system in case any items go faulty?

So please tell me what would stop me from just buying two eco flow delta max or similar (on black Friday deals) and plugging these into the sure power when I pull in order to use 240v. I could just strap them into the garage area. Also I would have solar plugged in along with the eco flow super charger from the alternator to keep them topped up.

Would it be more cost effective? I'm getting victron quotes in excess of 7k and more for the Clayton system.

Again, total newbie so please tell me if I'm getting this totally wrong, I won't be offended 😃

Thanks for any help

Adam
Click to expand...
£7k could be an entirely reasonable price for a professionally installed Victron system - depends on the spec.

If you are on something like 400 Amps lithium - 300 watts solar - 3000 watt inverter - 50 Amp B2B with a full set of smart control systems MPPT etc - then the price would be OK in my book.

Easy enough to get a comparison price if you have a detailed quote - who has given the price you have now?

For ref: if you are somewhere near the midlands Vanward Uk near Loughborough are Victron installers and sensibly priced - find them on Facebook etc.
 
Ads86 said:
Hello all.

I'm getting quotes this week for an electrical upgrade on my 2011 carthago e chic I47 which I pick up on Thursday. We plan to full time in the motorhome for 9 months of the year and it currently has no solar and 2 lead acid batteries.

However I keep seeing videos of you tubers using power banks to power their 240v systems off grid and it's got me thinking.

Rather than a fixed in system (victron) surely there's a benefit to an almost plug and play system in case any items go faulty?

So please tell me what would stop me from just buying two eco flow delta max or similar (on black Friday deals) and plugging these into the sure power when I pull in order to use 240v. I could just strap them into the garage area. Also I would have solar plugged in along with the eco flow super charger from the alternator to keep them topped up.

Would it be more cost effective? I'm getting victron quotes in excess of 7k and more for the Clayton system.

Again, total newbie so please tell me if I'm getting this totally wrong, I won't be offended 😃

Thanks for any help

Adam
Click to expand...
I use a Delta Max 20048 in my boot and it is so simple. Expandable with extra batteries and easily removable with no trace. I can use it at home should I get a power cut by lifting it in to the house. Mains power anytime and I take it to my next van. I love mine.
 
We don't full time but we do several extended trips each year in our 5.4m Globecar Roadscout.

We have a 200aH LiFePO4 leisure battery, 300W of solar on the roof and a 50A battery-to-battery. We don't have an inverter though, mainly because we don't really have space close enough to the leisure battery (our van is only 5.4m). So, the lights, fridge, Truma fan and re-charging our tech are all run off the leisure battery.

However, we do also have an EcoFlow River 2 Pro, which has a 768Wh capacity and can output up to 1600 watts on boost. We also have a 160W portable solar panel for it. We use the EcoFlow to run our low wattage air fryer, low wattage induction hob, electric hotpot and low wattage hairdryer.

Although not as convenient as a built-in inverter, it does have some advantages. It is portable so we can take it out of the van and use it outside or elsewhere. We can charge it up via a regular 240v socket or when driving or using our portable solar panel. We can often get a better output from our 160w portable solar panel than from the 300w solar panels on the roof as you can point it directly at the sun (which means we can park in the shade if we like).

We have used the EcoFlow a couple of times to re-charge the leisure battery when we had been off grid for a couple of days. It didn't put much charge in as it only has 768Wh but it was just enough to top up.

I would agree with the comments above that a fully built-in system is best but I think having a separate EcoFlow in addition is useful (especially if you can get one in the Black Friday sales).
 

My concern for a EcoFlow DELTA 2 Portable Power Station is the petrol engine?! It most certainly cannot be used in the 'van for obvious reasons, presumably to charge the battery.Leaving it outside could be risky.​

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PeterE1947 said:

My concern for a EcoFlow DELTA 2 Portable Power Station is the petrol engine?! It most certainly cannot be used in the 'van for obvious reasons, presumably to charge the battery.Leaving it outside could be risky.​

Click to expand...
Eh? What petrol engine?

It's a lithium battery with built-in chargers and inverters, no petrol needed.
 
With a vehicle that size, it's easy to see why the quote was so high.

I wonder if RogerIvy will look to install a 48v battery system and put a full 240v supply throughout with at a 10kw+ battery ….....
 
AdrianChen said:
Agree - more likely the spec was much higher than intended powerpack and allowed for B2B etc
Click to expand...
Prices have come down for Victron kit since mine was done - and Lithium prices have almost halved. I paid undere that quote for our 8.6m van with:

550w Solar Panels
2* Mppt controllers
Multiplus II 3000
Cerbo GX
5 inch Victron Screen
Orion B2B (now an XS but price £200 back then)
Shunt
Temp sensor
Lynx Distributor
430AH Lithium at £2.5K (Fogstars would be £1300 today)
5m 95mm² OceanFlex cable
12m 16mm² OceanFlex cable
Various Victron data cables
RCBO double pole
New 275amp main switch
Couple of boards cut for mounting.

There are cheaper ways of doing this using Rasberry PI, Standard busbars, non Victron HDMI display, not using OceanFlex/tinned cable etc.

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PeterE1947 said:
My concern for a EcoFlow DELTA 2 Portable Power Station is the petrol engine?! It most certainly cannot be used in the 'van for obvious reasons, presumably to charge the battery.Leaving it outside could be risky.
Click to expand...
It's true that Ecoflow do a petrol generator, and also a dual-fuel (Petrol/LPG) generator. To look at on the website they look very similar to the lithium battery-powered power banks. However what is being discussed here are lithium battery power banks, which are quite safe to use indoors. They are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) technology, so are safer than other types of lithium battery in terms of fire hazard.

Some motorhomes, especially the larger RVs, have a generator built in. Obviously there must be provision for the exhaust outlet for the fumes, and safe storage of petrol to power it. Generators are less popular now that lithium batteries and solar panels have both dropped in price considerably.
 
Lenny HB said:
Why? It's only a Carthago e-line.
Click to expand...
It was based on the potential payload, though of course I could be totally wrong and made an assumption that the payload would be sufficient...
 
Peter Clark said:
£7k could be an entirely reasonable price for a professionally installed Victron system - depends on the spec.

If you are on something like 400 Amps lithium - 300 watts solar - 3000 watt inverter - 50 Amp B2B with a full set of smart control systems MPPT etc - then the price would be OK in my book.

Easy enough to get a comparison price if you have a detailed quote - who has given the price you have now?

For ref: if you are somewhere near the midlands Vanward Uk near Loughborough are Victron installers and sensibly priced - find them on Facebook etc.
Click to expand...
£7k reasonable price what planet are you on !!!!!!
 

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