Vehicle battery direct solar or Vanbitz Battery Master?

Teedub

Teedub

Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Posts
18
Likes collected
15
Location
Liverpool
Funster No
73,016
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
3 years
Hi, we have a 100w solar panel and the controller has a spare outlet for a second battery. I‘m interested in having a Vanbitz Battery Master fitted and am wondering about the pros & cons of the Battery Master v charging vehicle battery directly from the solar charge controller. any thoughts/advice would be Greatly appreciated. Ta.
 
If you can get the cable fro solar go with that as the cheapest option, I went with battery master but for a different reason.
 
No reason to buy more kit, you already have the facility. The major problem is getting a pair of wires to the starter battery
 
When on ECU battery master will trickle charge your starter battery if needed.
Might be useful in winter months.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Need to check the solar controller charge priority.

We have a sunstore mppt with dual outputs, BUT the vehicle battery output only charges when the leisure batteries are full.

Fitted battery master so whatever shouldn't get stuck with a flat vehicle battery
 
I use solar and even in depths of winter keeps starter battery topped up.
 
I fitted a battery master because the vehicle and one leisure battery are next each other under the drivers seat. The second leisure battery and the solar controller is under the passenger seat.
Recently I tidied up the wiring from the solar controller to the batteries but kept the battery master. It works well as it is.
 
I had a battery master fitted quite a few years ago by Vanbitz and it has been marvellous. Previously the starter battery would be flat if left 6 weeks but not a problem now, even recently after standing for nearly 6 months it was topped right up and started first time.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
I'm another fan of the Battery Master and I don't even have solar!

Vanbitz Battery Master takes excess current from the leisure battery (whether from solar, EHU or a better state of charge) filtering out anything nasty and regulating the charging current to an acceptable 1.1amp

I fitted a Battery Master wired to the Voltage Sensitive Realy (VSR split charging) and fixed it next to the VSR in my van - it took about 10 minutes

The advantages of topping up the cab battery from EHU or solar is obvious, but there is an added advantage for me (and I'm sure others) is that it will take power from the leisure battery if it has a better state of charge.
My moho gets parked up for four or 5 weeks in the Alps during my snowboarding trips, no solar (would be covered in snow anyway) or EHU and always starts without a problem (which is the main reason I fitted it). Other (cheaper) devices don't do that

There is a discount for Funsters
 
Which wires go where to wire up via the split charge relay?

This May save me time running a wire under the carpet/floor to the vehicle battery 👍
 
I bought a battery master last year and had it fitted during my habitation service. Don't know what happened but during the winter the vehicle battery constantly went flat. Decided to purchase a portable solar panel with regulator, fitted in window bingo no more flat battery.
 
nights said:
I bought a battery master last year and had it fitted during my habitation service. Don't know what happened but during the winter the vehicle battery constantly went flat. Decided to purchase a portable solar panel with regulator, fitted in window bingo no more flat battery.
Click to expand...

My experience of the portable solar has been the exact opposite. I’ve tried direct to the battery and via the OBD and neither will keep the Vehicle battery charged. This is why I’m considering the alternatives. If I do go for the Battery Master I think it will be in conjunction with an elongated trip to Somerset and have it fitted by Vanbitz while we‘re there.
 
nights said:
I bought a battery master last year and had it fitted during my habitation service. Don't know what happened but during the winter the vehicle battery constantly went flat. Decided to purchase a portable solar panel with regulator, fitted in window bingo no more flat battery.
Click to expand...
LOL It was fitted wrong then or the battery is duff!

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
GAVLAD said:
Which wires go where to wire up via the split charge relay?

This May save me time running a wire under the carpet/floor to the vehicle battery 👍
Click to expand...
With a standard relay, you have a pair of thicker wires and a pair of thinner wires.

"Normally" the thicker pair will be on terminal numbers 30 & 87 one will be to the leisure battery positive and the other will be to the engine battery positive. These will (should) be fused either end so won't be fused at the relay. You can connect the Brown and the Red Battery Master wires to these two wires at the relay. Done this way the Battery Master does not need to be fused either as it as auto resetting built in fuses and the load/supply is fused.

If you cannot see which wire wire goes to which battery, you will need to use a volt meter or something that can read the voltage. If your leisure battery reads 13.4 volts and the engine battery reads 12.6 volts then the voltage on the two wires will correspond, a further tip is having read the two voltages, put the hazard warning lights on, and again measure the voltage on the two wires at the relay, one voltage (leisure) will remain constant, and the other voltage will fluctuate, corresponding with the "flash" of the hazard warning lights. This is your engine battery wire.

The other two wires on terminal numbers 85 & 86 will have "thinner" wires. One will be negative, and one will "appear" to be negative, but when you start the engine will switch to 12 volts. This is the "energising" wire that operates the relay, joining the engine and leisure batteries together, so they both charge from the alternator.

The black wire from the Battery Master can be connected to the wire that stays negative regardless of whether the engine is running or not.

So what happens now? When the engine is started the "energiser" will allows the leisure battery to be charged, and when the engine is stopped all of the motorhomes electrical requirements are supplied by the leisure battery, and even if you flatten the leisure battery, you can still start the engine.

When the Battery Master is fitted, the Battery Master measures the voltage on both batteries. If the leisure battery voltage is more than circa 0.8 volts higher than the engine battery it will trickle charge the engine battery, and bring the voltages back as close as possible.

This occurs in three main ways.

  1. A solar panel has been fitted and the installers only connected the leisure battery. So the motorhome which is, when all said and done, designed to be used as delivery van stop/start all day, every day, has been left for a few weeks, and the leisure battery is fully charged, but the engine battery is flat, so with the addition of the Battery Master the leisure AND engine battery are fully charged
  2. On hook up a lot of motorhomes either don't charge the engine battery, or the engine battery has to be selected from the control panel, and then of course the leisure battery has to be "re selected" to avoid the leisure battery discharging. The Battery Master automatically "trickle" charges the engine battery due to seeing the voltage on the "charging" leisure battery
  3. No hook up, no solar! There are a number of things that are connected to the engine battery, that have a low electrical requirement. ECU, Immobiliser, clock, radio memory, alarm etc. This is called a quiescent drain, so no one thing significant, but added together, over a period of time, do become significant. So again whereas examples one and two create a difference in voltage because of an internal charge, the third example is the voltage differential is created as the engine battery is going flat. So the load is more "shared" between the engine and leisure battery, thus extended the amount of time you can leave the motorhome unplugged, without solar and still expect it to start!
It has a little LED on it, Green when the batteries are balanced, Red when it is working. If you want to test it, get someone to "crank" the engine but not start it, so a quick short turn of the key, and as the starter motor "kicks in" you will see the LED go from Green to Red. If you can't get a willing volunteer, turn the ignition on, but don't start the engine, put the hazard lights on, the heater blower, the headlights on full beam, anything and everything that will put a drain on the engine battery. Watch the LED on the Battery Master and you will see it change from Green (balanced) to Red (charging)

It is waterproof, dustproof, vibration proof bomb proof and can be bought cheapest on Motorhome Fun, https://shop.motorhomefun.co.uk/product/battery-master/
 
Hi eddievanbitz am I right that you have fitted BM between LiFePO4 and Lead acid starter battery without any problems? I ask because all the cheaper versions specifically say NOT to do this I will need something when the van is in it's shed with no hook up.

Martin
 
funflair said:
Hi eddievanbitz am I right that you have fitted BM between LiFePO4 and Lead acid starter battery without any problems? I ask because all the cheaper versions specifically say NOT to do this I will need something when the van is in it's shed with no hook up.

Martin
Click to expand...
Yes Dozens of installations working happily With a "knock off" Battery Master ;) (Well mine is the original) they are preset at say 13.8 VDC and will do bugger all until that voltage is reached, so unless the van is plugged into mains or, its a Sunny period it will never work.

Bearing in mind that its the colder darker months that we tend not to use our vans so much, and the depth of January / February is when solar panels are at their most useless

With the "Original" Battery Master it is more concerned about voltage differential so will support the engine battery whenever it needs it.

A "no charge" Lithium sat at say 12.8vdc is simply a power reservoir for the Battery Master to dip into.
 
eddievanbitz said:
Yes Dozens of installations working happily With a "knock off" Battery Master ;) (Well mine is the original) they are preset at say 13.8 VDC and will do bugger all until that voltage is reached, so unless the van is plugged into mains or, its a Sunny period it will never work.

Bearing in mind that its the colder darker months that we tend not to use our vans so much, and the depth of January / February is when solar panels are at their most useless

With the "Original" Battery Master it is more concerned about voltage differential so will support the engine battery whenever it needs it.

A "no charge" Lithium sat at say 12.8vdc is simply a power reservoir for the Battery Master to dip into.
Click to expand...
Thanks Eddie, I thought that was the answer but just wanted to be sure, had one on the last van and worked a treat but that was all lead acid.

Martin
 
In your post, re split charger , above eddievanbitz you say the black wire goes to earth.

On my installation your fitter put the brown wire to earth.?

So just wondering which is right ?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Ok.@eddievanbitz

Thanks for the rapid response.

Brown to Leisure negative.

Red and Black into one of the Chausson boite securite(relay?)





09E0106D-1345-45E8-A396-D1A22777B1A5.jpeg
69ADC6FC-8A95-4855-B398-A73E522A43F9.jpeg
 
AXO66 said:
Ok.@eddievanbitz

Thanks for the rapid response.

Brown to Leisure negative.

Red and Black into one of the Chausson boite securite(relay?)





View attachment 407602 View attachment 407609
Click to expand...

Err that isn't the Battery Master wire!
1594913369815.png

We "Think" that the Battery Master "brown wire" is connected into the "other" CBE box on the left of the picture.
 
Ok.

will double check.,
 
Last edited:
Eddie@vanbitz.


1 yep, there is brown wire to the other CBE box

2 and those are your wires. See picture.

And the good news it appears to work.
LED was red earlier now green!
( and no flat battery after 3 months lay up! )

reckon I ‘ve figured out the other wire.


17A870F1-FFB6-4971-ADC6-5431D8C4296D.jpeg

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
eddievanbitz said:
With a standard relay, you have a pair of thicker wires and a pair of thinner wires.

"Normally" the thicker pair will be on terminal numbers 30 & 87 one will be to the leisure battery positive and the other will be to the engine battery positive. These will (should) be fused either end so won't be fused at the relay. You can connect the Brown and the Red Battery Master wires to these two wires at the relay. Done this way the Battery Master does not need to be fused either as it as auto resetting built in fuses and the load/supply is fused.

If you cannot see which wire wire goes to which battery, you will need to use a volt meter or something that can read the voltage. If your leisure battery reads 13.4 volts and the engine battery reads 12.6 volts then the voltage on the two wires will correspond, a further tip is having read the two voltages, put the hazard warning lights on, and again measure the voltage on the two wires at the relay, one voltage (leisure) will remain constant, and the other voltage will fluctuate, corresponding with the "flash" of the hazard warning lights. This is your engine battery wire.

The other two wires on terminal numbers 85 & 86 will have "thinner" wires. One will be negative, and one will "appear" to be negative, but when you start the engine will switch to 12 volts. This is the "energising" wire that operates the relay, joining the engine and leisure batteries together, so they both charge from the alternator.

The black wire from the Battery Master can be connected to the wire that stays negative regardless of whether the engine is running or not.

So what happens now? When the engine is started the "energiser" will allows the leisure battery to be charged, and when the engine is stopped all of the motorhomes electrical requirements are supplied by the leisure battery, and even if you flatten the leisure battery, you can still start the engine.

When the Battery Master is fitted, the Battery Master measures the voltage on both batteries. If the leisure battery voltage is more than circa 0.8 volts higher than the engine battery it will trickle charge the engine battery, and bring the voltages back as close as possible.

This occurs in three main ways.

  1. A solar panel has been fitted and the installers only connected the leisure battery. So the motorhome which is, when all said and done, designed to be used as delivery van stop/start all day, every day, has been left for a few weeks, and the leisure battery is fully charged, but the engine battery is flat, so with the addition of the Battery Master the leisure AND engine battery are fully charged
  2. On hook up a lot of motorhomes either don't charge the engine battery, or the engine battery has to be selected from the control panel, and then of course the leisure battery has to be "re selected" to avoid the leisure battery discharging. The Battery Master automatically "trickle" charges the engine battery due to seeing the voltage on the "charging" leisure battery
  3. No hook up, no solar! There are a number of things that are connected to the engine battery, that have a low electrical requirement. ECU, Immobiliser, clock, radio memory, alarm etc. This is called a quiescent drain, so no one thing significant, but added together, over a period of time, do become significant. So again whereas examples one and two create a difference in voltage because of an internal charge, the third example is the voltage differential is created as the engine battery is going flat. So the load is more "shared" between the engine and leisure battery, thus extended the amount of time you can leave the motorhome unplugged, without solar and still expect it to start!
It has a little LED on it, Green when the batteries are balanced, Red when it is working. If you want to test it, get someone to "crank" the engine but not start it, so a quick short turn of the key, and as the starter motor "kicks in" you will see the LED go from Green to Red. If you can't get a willing volunteer, turn the ignition on, but don't start the engine, put the hazard lights on, the heater blower, the headlights on full beam, anything and everything that will put a drain on the engine battery. Watch the LED on the Battery Master and you will see it change from Green (balanced) to Red (charging)

It is waterproof, dustproof, vibration proof bomb proof and can be bought cheapest on Motorhome Fun, https://shop.motorhomefun.co.uk/product/battery-master/
Click to expand...
God you are ace eddievanbitz
 
Dispite the confusion with wires , it works, neat and tidy , just seems to be so simple, whats not to like.!
 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Join us

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Back
Top