Vat exemption and vehicle adaptions

[Wizbangs]

Hi all,

As some of you may know, who have seen us with the Funsters at various shows, my Hubby is disabled and has difficulty walking more than a few yards. He uses a mobility scooter, but not a wheelchair as some of his injuries prevent him from wheeling himself along. Although his scooter breaks down into parts, it is becoming more and more difficult for us to lift up the various parts into the MH. As we have nowhere to carry it but on the bench seats, we are very aware it would be an extremely dangerous object should we be involved in a serious accident. Hubby is also really struggling to get in and out of the MH now, as it is quite a step up for him.

We have therefore started looking for a new MH with a garage we can lift things in and out of more easily, but also not too high a vehicle to step up into. As he tires quickly, we are also looking for a fixed rear end bedroom, preferably with single beds, so he can sleep during the day without being disturbed. As I do all the driving it needs to be an automatic as well. Not much to ask for as a spec...

At Lincoln last week whilst looking at new motorhomes,, we were told that all we needed was a letter from the Dr to prove hubby's disability in order to be VAT exempt. Having read other posts on this forum, it obviously isn't that easy. The vehicle needs to be adapted for disabled use. This is completely new territory for us and we don't know what adaptions are available to actually help hubby and to enable us to potentially qualify for the VAT exemption, if in fact it is even possible.

Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

If hubby is as disabled as you say, you should be eligibe for VAT exemption but it is a minefield. A doctors letter is not sufficient!!

There is an adaption whereby you can have a lift to get into the MH but the whole side of the van and door needs to be modified.

Maybe a two level portable step would help him to get into the van?

I would suggest you give Gill a call on 01-580-881588 and have a chat to her as she has had experience of supplying vans VAT free and does it properly or have a chat to Andy.

Peter

 

[TheBig1]

Right deep breath and here we go...

you need to read guidance book 701/59 from HMRC which is specific to vehicles supplied to disabled persons at the reduced rate of 0% VAT

in short to qualify
1 the vehicle must be new
2 the vehicle must be adapted before delivery, but see note below
3 the disabled person must be unable to walk and require a wheelchair or stretcher
4 the person must be exempt from RFL
5 documentary evidence of disability is required
6 the correct exemption paperwork must be completed before delivery and retained for later inspection

an adaption can range from something simple to allow for the disabled person to drive, and somewhere to carry the wheelchair through to major remodelling, but this is not essential. I have a spinal injury and to allow me to drive, I need a steering wheel ball fitted. cost £50

please pm me for anything personal related to this, as it is not a topic I am comfortable discussing on the forum. too many think we are getting free cars and something for nothing just by being disabled


.

or download it

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[aba]

i do know that there are people that will do the necessary modifications to your existing van.

have a word with these people.

Link Removed

 

[slobadoberbob]

Wrong

Right deep breath and here we go...

you need to read guidance book 701/59 from HMRC which is specific to vehicles supplied to disabled persons at the reduced rate of 0% VAT

in short to qualify
1 the vehicle must be new
2 the vehicle must be adapted before delivery, but see note below
3 the disabled person must be unable to walk and require a wheelchair or stretcher
4 the person must be exempt from RFL
5 documentary evidence of disability is required
6 the correct exemption paperwork must be completed before delivery and retained for later inspection

an adaption can range from something simple to allow for the disabled person to drive, and somewhere to carry the wheelchair through to major remodelling, but this is not essential. I have a spinal injury and to allow me to drive, I need a steering wheel ball fitted. cost £50

please pm me for anything personal related to this, as it is not a topic I am comfortable discussing on the forum. too many think we are getting free cars and something for nothing just by being disabled


.

or download it

.

You are wrong I am sorry to say....

The vehicle can be second hand to allow the vat to be removed by the dealer using the vat margin.

It is a mine field.. but I have done it.
You have to complete the correct forms.. but to break it down the user has to be a wheelchair or stretcher user (do not ask me why a stretcher).

There is a lot of case law now and HM Customs and Revenue have agreed that an adaption as small as a wheel spinner is enough to apply the removal of the VAT element.

Also VAT can be removed off repairs from a VAT exempted vehicle .. this covers a lot of the day to day running but not goodies on a motor home.

You should have an DLA 404 exemption and in receipt of the higher level of DLA.. this is one of the magic keys.

I suggest you p.m. me or call me and I can run through the issues. Been there got the T shirt a few times.

But it is a wheelchair that the form states (or stretcher) ... Some of the suppliers like Star Spangled Spanner (for the RV's) is very use to providing the parts less vat on production of the correct forms... same with the main Renault dealer that keeps my Rv in top condition.. VAT removed on production of the correct forms which I have to supply not him.

As an a side I am selling my RV to get a toy hauler so I can have better access for my wheelchair... so it is not easy.. as I know.

Remember it is also on Second hand vehicles. Does not apply to trailers at all.

Bob

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[Minxy]

Slobadobyyyyyyyyyy ....

I've seen you mention a 'toy hauler' a few times ... what is it!

 

[slobadoberbob]

what is a toy hauler????

Slobadobyyyyyyyyyy ....

I've seen you mention a 'toy hauler' a few times ... what is it!

OK for those that do not know... it is a bit like my front end of my Ford B class RV.. but at the back it has a garage like a truck with either a big ramp or in my case it is a tail lift that allows me to drive my power wheelchair on or normal wheelchair ..scooters or even an ATV...like a quad bike... I can then lift the tail lift up to the back and open a roller shutter or door and get entry into the RV garage area which is over 6' head room.. has some cupboards each side or pull down beds.. even has a hatch in the roof with a pull down ladder so you can get up on the observation deck area.

But it is normally used by racing teams.. popular with motor bike racers and go carts.. or those that have quad bikes....

Ideal for those that are disabled as it allow you to get up in tot he back and in to the main area (living) without having to climb stairs. All sorts of layouts and size... from about 29' up to 40' long... under 7.5 tons to whatever.

A secondhand one from about £35k upwards, made by lots of companies in the USA.

Hope that helps.

Bob

 

[jhorsf]

Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee dont encourage him

 

[vwalan]

toy hauler is something with a big garage .
but beware .as a disabled person its ok .but if you are able bodied this turns a m,home or caravan into a living van .as a living van hgv mot,s come into force if over 3,500kg gvw .
bob did you know that.

 

[aba]

so i take it that a toy hauler wont be registered as a motorhome but as a living van and subject to goods vehicle mot's.

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[vwalan]

could be . at the moment it as been left to the owner to admit to it or not . its a self certifying thing . it al;so as i said depends on weights if under it can be a class 4 .ifg over you could say its a motor home . but if caught with items not directly involved in residing in the living area then you may be in trouble .
there is lots of info on other sites about this some go into quite detailed comunication with the authorites about this . i only talk with vosa . they dont like putting things on paper as they say its down to the courts again . usual get out .
i discussed it with my trailer as i,m disabled i tend to use a small dax m,bike as an aid . the discusion went yes that could be an aid and it could be ok .as it is its far better to keep it as a living van for me .

 

[Wizbangs]

Hubby can walk for short distances and is therefore not confined to a wheelchair, (thank heavens), although his mobility is greatly impaired. However this makes his situation an even more grey area for the VAT exemption. The wording of the DLA is more encompassing of his situation. However he has never claimed for the DLA and we are now wondering if that is possible. So, phonecalls to be made etc before we proceed. At the moment, hubby has an Industrial Injuries Pension for life and a Blue Badge.

Thanks all for the replies. In reply to Peter, we will be contacting Gill in the near future, once we have more idea of hubby's actual disability status, thank you. To Andy, we need to change the vehicle, mods to what we have simply won't be enough. Thank you nevertheless. As to the PEMs and other offers of advice we have had, they too are much appreciated and I will be replying in due course, once we have explored the DLA and matters arising.

 

[slobadoberbob]

Thank you for adding that info

toy hauler is something with a big garage .
but beware .as a disabled person its ok .but if you are able bodied this turns a m,home or caravan into a living van .as a living van hgv mot,s come into force if over 3,500kg gvw .
bob did you know that.

Alan thanks for reminding me.. I was aware but did not think to say to others.. that I can as a disabled person use the garage for the reason of my disability and then it is not a living van, but if you haul motorbikes or ATV's or quads about in it then the rules change.

Thanks again.

Bob

 

[Wizbangs]

On another note, the two companies pushing for the potential sale via a Doctors letter, will NOT be getting our business. Such 'dirty' practices and misleading BS gets me seething angry, yet hubby seems to fall for it every time. It's a good job I read the forum here to confirm my inner misgivings.

 

[slobadoberbob]

as you say it is what the courts say

could be . at the moment it as been left to the owner to admit to it or not . its a self certifying thing . it al;so as i said depends on weights if under it can be a class 4 .ifg over you could say its a motor home . but if caught with items not directly involved in residing in the living area then you may be in trouble .
there is lots of info on other sites about this some go into quite detailed comunication with the authorites about this . i only talk with vosa . they dont like putting things on paper as they say its down to the courts again . usual get out .
i discussed it with my trailer as i,m disabled i tend to use a small dax m,bike as an aid . the discusion went yes that could be an aid and it could be ok .as it is its far better to keep it as a living van for me .

That is very true Alan.. it is for the courts to often decide.

HMRC has thousands of court cases behind them when they challenge various issues. The one re the relief on VAT for disabled people re the steering wheel spinner was one of them and HMRC even now show it as an example of what is allowed in there booklet which they will supply. It also has examples of the various forms the wheelchair/stretcher user has to draw up and complete.

A few years ago (not that long ago) a few dealers got there fingers burned with VAT exemption claiming when not allowed so it is much harder these days to get dealers to take the vat off unless they are 100% sure of the facts. I have dealt with some dealers with my RV that are willing to do so, and other dealers that feel it is to much trouble. Plus a lot of dealers selling second hand do not want you to know the margin .. which you will if the vat is taken off, as that is what happens the vat on second hand vehicles is taken on the margin so you see just how much profit they are making off the sale.

I have found HMRC helpful on the telephone, but like VOSA will only point you to various law and you have to decide if you can meet the regulations.

Unlike blue badges this area is 10 times harder.. especially the DLA aspect with the present Welfare Reform Act.. plus anyone who has had the blue badge renewed since February this year will know it has to be DLA backed .. otherwise medicals have to be undertaken.. they are making it harder (rightly) to get blue badges due to the abuse of the system.

Bob

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[slobadoberbob]

I have been very good this past week

Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee dont encourage him

I have been very good this past week.. have not started a sales drive again.


However it is still for sale if anyone is interested.. it is advertised in 5 different places plus the plugs here.


Well the firs chap did not collect.. still has to Sunday, but been told he is not... so £500 better off. Did say I would refund it less expenses if I found another buyer before the 30th.. not happened.


Bob:Blush:

 

[vwalan]

hi, yes i was a county rep for the national association of bikers with a disabilty a few years ago . i know we had terrible job getting the mobility scheme to accept trikes as a choice of transport.
i had trouble even getting dvla to put disabled tax on my truck as its hgv . but is my choice of vehicle . all takes stubborness . i find with most authority things you have to do your homework then tell them what to do .never ask them for advise as they dont know the answer . you have to lead them .

 

[vwalan]

that wheel spinner is interesting .my uncle was the first one armed person to get his licence back . he saw the spinners on a fork lift and designed the small hitch and had it fitted to his gadget arm . he was secretary for the limbless years ago .
anyone needing a wheel spinner visit a good tractor shop . you can get them for as little as a few quid . i use one on mine .makes reversing much easier and i would miss it now. takes awhile to get used to them .

 

[slobadoberbob]

I have my DLA 404 on a car

hi, yes i was a county rep for the national association of bikers with a disabilty a few years ago . i know we had terrible job getting the mobility scheme to accept trikes as a choice of transport.
i had trouble even getting dvla to put disabled tax on my truck as its hgv . but is my choice of vehicle . all takes stubborness . i find with most authority things you have to do your homework then tell them what to do .never ask them for advise as they dont know the answer . you have to lead them .

I use my DLA404 on a car which is more expensive to tax than my RV ..(which is £165 pa) the car is over £200 so the DLA exemption goes on the car.

But I agree they tend to try and bulk when it does not fit in to the notch that they think it should do. But thankfully these days it is getting better.

I can remember the fight I had when I renewed my photo licence and they removed my class A.. I had a real battle got it back and £25 compensation.. yes disabled people do rider motorbikes... my last one was a Moto Guzzi V1000 ... While do not ride these days why the hell should I give up the entitlement.. they have had automatic to it or manual gear change.. But at least I can still ride a bike if I want to.

As we know from experience we end up fight city hall over many things.. gets tiring at times. Being disabled does not mean you are brain dead or do not want to have a life.

Bob

 

[vwalan]

yes i knoe several with no legs that still ride bikes . the enthuisiasm is incredible . it was because of that i decided to accept the post of county rep. lost touch a bit these days .
yes i use the tax on the truck as that is more expensive than my m,bikes .plus it fits in with the mot exemption so together makes a nice example for vosa .they love it . all legal and above board . just put diesel in and away . ha ha .
all i need now is away around insurance .ha ha .

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[Wizbangs]

Some research later... DLA is only available for under 65s. Hubby is insufficiently disabled for assistance. CAB and other avenues were really helpful, but the outcome so far is negative. Ho-hum. As I see it, the VAT on a new MH, equals about 6 months in a care home, so spend on the MH or save for care? No brainer?

 

[vwalan]

if you need medical care or mental care then you dont pay for the care its free. so if you are disabled this can be medical . its free.

 

[slobadoberbob]

as I have said before Mary - wheelchair or stretcher

Some research later... DLA is only available for under 65s. Hubby is insufficiently disabled for assistance. CAB and other avenues were really helpful, but the outcome so far is negative. Ho-hum. As I see it, the VAT on a new MH, equals about 6 months in a care home, so spend on the MH or save for care? No brainer?

The actual key as far as HMRC is the word wheelchair or stretcher... the DLA are just one of a number of keys that can turn the lock... locks can be picked.

I cannot go in to it on the site, it to complicated and some people will get the wrong idea. Have suggested before you might want to discuss it on the telephone.

As Alan knows being disabled you do not give up at the first fence.. sometimes you need to think outside the box and go from another direction.

Bob

 

[Wizbangs]

if you need medical care or mental care then you dont pay for the care its free. so if you are disabled this can be medical . its free.

True, until you need residential care, then for some, such as those living alone, it's another story. My bank keep phoning and asking what financial plans we have made for such scenarios.. my answer is "None." Is that an Oops? How far does one plan ahead for these hypothetical contingencies?

 

[Wizbangs]

Lock picking

locks can be picked.

Bob

Thanks Bob, we haven't forgotten and will be contacting you, but not just yet.

Just as I didn't believe the first positive about the Dr's note, (Grrrrr), I shall not be deterred but the first sets of negatives, although the doors did get slammed pretty hard. I will come back to it... hopefully next week or the week after. Too much going on elsewhere to be able to focus on the issue right now.

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