Van Studio:Battery Power for Moving Music Studio

[rawm]

Yes yes campers.!

Second post and if its anything like as helpful as the first this will be well worth while. Im setting up my van as a moving music studio and its no secret that Speakers are not what you'd call energy efficient. This necessitates a pretty big power bank.

At the moment I've calculated the size of the system at absolute utopian usage levels - the thing will be totally self sustaining or 'off grid'. I am imagining the possibility of having speakers powered constantly for a whole 24 hours in order to see what is achievable. After that technological, space and economic factors will play a part in how big the final system is and what my usage is.

In the mean time I'm looking to find out some information with people who have a little bit of experience setting up a leisure battery system.

The first question is what type of battery - for many reasons it seems like lithium ion seems like a great option. Its expensive but the initial outlay seems worth it for some of the benefits [I know the lead acid/lithium argument is pretty loaded so I hope this thread doesnt turn into a lithium verse lead boxing match].

I'll be traveling from the coldest cold to the hottest hot so the performance in areas of varying temperature is a pretty crucial aspect of the batteries purpose - i understand lithium to be superior in this sense.

One thing Im uncertain about is the difference between a 'lead' amp hour and a lithium amp hour. Lithium sellers seem to suggest that a lithium amp hour is worth almost double that of a lead acid amp hour....Im well confused as to what that means practically though. Any info here would be great.!

With a lead acid setup I understand you have to pretty much double your amp hours so your battery does not discharge below 50% - with that I've calculated my utopian system size to be 3,200 A/h.

With a lithium battery I believe that means I would need a power bank of 1600A/h - but Im not sure given the problem above whether that means I need a Lithium system of 1600A/h or actually 800 A/h

There's a lot to read through there, but given the waffle above if anyone has any feedback, pointers or info on battery systems I'd love to know - Im also looking for company which supply great batteries so help in this direction would be much appreciated....I've found this which looks dope -

 

[hilldweller]

The answer is simple, a nice quiet generator.

 

[eddie]

Dilithium Crystals will give you unlimited power

 

[DBK]

Have a look at this thread for some ideas on using lithium batteries.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...tup-for-full-timing-lifepo4-build-log.167236/

I think the Ah claim is based on lithium batteries being capable of being discharged down to 10% as opposed to the 50% of conventional batteries - so you can get 90% of the energy out of them, or about twice. However, my reading of some of the later posts on the thread above is this may have an impact on the life of the batteries.

A big advantage for your project might be the reduced volume (in a studio!) they will take up, which may or may not be useful depending on the size of the vehicle and the layout.

Other considerations are solar and a B2B charger. The former when somewhere sunny the latter for when somewhere dark and cold.

 

[Pausim]

You might also need to think about weight of batteries. 3,200ah of lead acid might weigh in at say 800kg. Assuming you can get away with 2,000ah of LiFePO4, which are much lighter to start with, you might reduce that weight to less than 300kg.

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[mitzimad]

It's ok having a huge battery bank but you need to charge it up your going to need a solar farm

 

[autorouter]

2000Ah is 2000 x 12 = 24000 watt-hours = 24 kiloWatt-hours.

That's spread out over 24 hours, so it's using energy at about 1 kilowatt every hour.

Here's another figure. The current in the 12 volt circuit will be 2000/12 = 167 amps. That's continuous, 24 hours. It's a lot of current. You'll need wires as thick as water hose if you are going to avoid excessive voltage drop. If I were you I'd be thinking of an alternative to 12 volts.

Bearing in mind that a battery is simply an energy store, not an energy source, where are you going to get the energy from to charge up the batteries?

It's going to need 1000 watts continuously for 24 hours, or 3000 watts if charged over 8 hours. I reckon 3000 watts of solar is not feasible on even the largest motorhome. So you would need a generator. Or if money is really no object, a number of fuel cells.

If using a generator, you'll find most of them only have a small 12v charging capacity, so you'll need to use a mains charger. To charge them up in 8 hours you'll need one that gives a current of 2000/3 = 666 amps. That'll be a devil of a job to find.

What voltage does your studio equipment require? Is it 12 volts, or mains voltage via an inverter?

If you seriously want this amount of power, then I suggest you think about upping the voltage. The same batteries arranged in series/parallel can be configured to give 48volts. A charger and inverter from 48V to mains and back would be required. A 48 to 12volt DC-DC converter could power your habitation circuits.

 

[138go]

Hydrogen Fuel Cell .. Bit quieter than a generator.

 

[Richard n Ann]

I think the best solution would be a diesel trailer/generator. Loads of power and reasonably quiet, easy to set up, and probably cheaper.

 

[jezport]

You need a good genny for that

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[Pausim]

Are generators incompatible with studio sound? If so I can’t see solar or alternator power being sufficient to replenish the power demand. Perhaps the OP should be talking to people with electric vehicle expertise where the power demands are higher.

 

[Spriddler]

Perhaps the OP should be talking to people with electric vehicle expertise where the power demands are higher.

That was my first thought since the only relevance to this website is the fact that it's in a van.
Powering a heavy drain sound studio for hours on end is totally different from running a kettle or hair dryer for 5 mins.

 

[rawm]

Thanks for your responses - as a lot of you have suggested I am not driving round in house and I don’t have access to any Dilithium crystals so a 3-4Kwh solar system is simply too big. It’s helped me scale my problem though which is good start.

I think the best solution would be a diesel trailer/generator. Loads of power and reasonably quiet, easy to set up, and probably cheaper.

I don’t think I want to go down the diesel genny route, they’re a noisy and not particularly stealthy solution.

Are generators incompatible with studio sound? If so I can’t see solar or alternator power being sufficient to replenish the power demand. Perhaps the OP should be talking to people with electric vehicle expertise where the power demands are higher.

I’d welcome any suggestions to find some more relevant advice - to be honest I’m quite happy with the suggestions I’ve had so far.!

A 48 to 12volt DC-DC converter could power your habitation circuits.

Looking at the difference between 12v and 48v - does 48v system just reduce the amount of ampage going through the wires and make the system safer/more efficient?


Watt Hours / System Voltage = Amp Hours
4680 /12v = 390 A/h
/48v = 97.5 A/h


Does this mean that a 48v system requires a small battery bank than a 12v system?

At the moment I’ve just started to reframe my usage given a more realistic figure of how much usage I would need. I mean there is no way I will be playing music from the speakers for 24 hours a day 7 days a week whilst cooking and all the rest. I estimate my studio usage to be about 8 hours a day, 3 days out of 7. Otherwise put, an average of 24 hours over a week.

With this in mind I’ve calculated my day to day usage separate from my studio usage - the idea would be to design a system that has the storage capacity to run over my average weekly usage but will charge up over a number of days.



Day To Day

Item Watts Hours W/H

Cooker 2100x 2= 4200
Heater 200x 8= 1600
Lights 120x 5= 600
Fridge 80x 24= 1920
Kettle 1500x 0.08= 120

Sub Total 8,440 w/h



Battery Size (Amp Hours) = Watt Hours / Voltage
8440w/h /12v = 703 A/h
/48v = 175.8 A/h



Solar Bank Size = Total Watt Hours/Hours of Sunlight

8440 /5 = 1,688 Watts (Summer)
/2 = 4220 Watts (Winter)


The idea was to try and power my everyday electricity needs with renewable energy sources, but it seems the power input required from the solar bank is just too much! If I was to power the cooker, the heater and the fridge with propane I could reduce my daily usage figure considerably. Before I write this off though my question is, as maths and electronics aren’t my strong point, is this calculation correct?



Music Studio

Item Watts Hours W/H

Tweeters(pair) 135x2x 8= 2160
Sub 250x 8= 2000
Charger 65x 8= 520

Sub Total 4,680 w/h



Battery Size (Amp Hours) = Watt Hours / Voltage

4680 /12v = 390 A/h
/48v = 97.5 A/h



Solar Bank Size = Total Watt Hours/Hours of Sunlight

4680 /5 = 936 Watts (Summer)
/2 = 2,340 Watts (Winter)



The van is 7m by 2.81 which gives me 19.67m2 surface area to fill with panels. In my head this looks like enough space to power my studio system.

 

[Devon Sue]

Don't pick the pitch next to me!

 

[autorouter]

Looking at the difference between 12v and 48v - does 48v system just reduce the amount of ampage going through the wires and make the system safer/more efficient?

The reason to use 48volts instead of 12 volts is purely to reduce the amperage (current) flowing through the wires. The wires in the 48 volt circuit are four times thinner in area than 12 volt circuits. Safety and efficiency depend on design and workmanship, not voltage.

Does this mean that a 48v system requires a small battery bank than a 12v system?

The battery bank size and weight will be exactly the same for the same amount of energy storage.

Example: Eight 100Ah 12volt batteries. All eight in parallel will give you a 12 volt battery bank with a capacity of 800 Ah, or 800 x 12 = 9600 watt hours.
You could arrange them as a string of 4 batteries in series to make 48 volts, then another string of 4 batteries in series, and then connect the two strings in parallel. The capacity of each string will be 100Ah at 48 volts (= 4800 watt hours), so two strings will have a capacity of 200Ah at 48 volts = 9600 watt hours - ie exactly the same total capacity as the 12 volt arrangement.

The difference is in the amperage. If you use a 1200 watt load, it will draw 1200/12 = 100 amps from the 12 volt arrangement, but only 1200/48 = 25 amps from the 48 volt arrangement.

It's a lot of effort to change the voltages, to and from mains, 48 volts and your 12 volt habitation circuits, but worth it if you are otherwise handling a sizeable fraction of a kiloamp.

The van is 7m by 2.81 which gives me 19.67m2 surface area to fill with panels. In my head this looks like enough space to power my studio system.

On the solar question, the best thing is to fit the maximum area of panels on your roof, and hope it carries you through the summer and as much of the spring and autumn as possible. I reckon even the nearly 4 kilowatts of panel on my house roof wouldn't cut it for you for most of the winter. The shorter hours, lower sun angle and longer path through the atmosphere cuts the insolation (energy per square metre at ground level) to a pathetically low value.

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[pappajohn]

If you're banging out music for those sort of hours and need that kind of power it ain't going to be quiet background music, I hope you have a large disused quarry to camp in..... You ain't going to be popular, believe me.

 

[pappajohn]

I think the best solution would be a diesel trailer/generator. Loads of power and reasonably quiet, easy to set up, and probably cheaper.

I think the best solution is a decent pair of head phones.

 

[deleted-member02]

Why on earth would you want to put a 4k system into such a small space?
Surely a pair of high quality active studio monitors would give far better sound, using only a fraction of the power??