Van Conversion: Electrics Location and Layout

[Tommohawk]

Hi all. Just about to sort the electrics on my Citroen Relay L2 conversion, and looking for some advice on this... please chip in with ideas on any of the following!
I want to install the following: Lithium Battery, Mains Consumer unit, Renogy Dc/DC charger with MPPT, Inverter, DC fusebox. My conversion layout will be similar to Autotrail Vline 540, ie fridge +storage in tall cupboard behind drivers seat, with shower/loo behind that, and then rear seating/beds. Kitchen area next to sliding door on near side.

I was planning on installing the battery in the base of the tall unit behind the drivers seat, the fridge above that and then electrics mounted on the wall of the van above the fridge, which would accessible via a door in the back of the storage cupboard. See scruffy section pic below.

The idea is to keep the wiring runs as short as possible, have all the electrics in one place, and keep it accesssible. A charge/battery monitor will be mounted in a visible location somewhere at the front.
So my queries are:
1. Does this seem generally sensible? Switches, fuses etc will be accessed through a door at the rear of the cupboard, albeit at arms length.The entire top section of the cupboard above the fridge will be bolt mounted, so I can more easily install or upgrade components.
2. I think the regs say isolator etc has to be accessible - would this be considered sufficiently accessible?
3. Can I mount the electrics on a timber board? I'm pretty sure on my previous van the inverter manual said it had to be mounted on metal - -but might have mis-remembered.
4. Part of the idea is to mount the electric in a large void area (rather than completely enclosed) to assist in cooling. There will be vents in the van wall,. probably above and below as show. One concern here is that if some fool (probably me) jetwashed the exterior, the electrics would be soaked. I could mount the vents to one side, but that risk still remains. Are there any vents which are effectively waterproof, or some other method to ventilate? I could enclose the electrics but this would obviously prevent ventilation.

Grateful for any thoughts/input!,
Tom

 

[frwjd]

Van Conversion, Boat & Tiny Home Electric Specialist | Tiny Build Electrics UK

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[activecampers]

Battery is heavy and you really want it strapped in and accessible. Your main fuses will be close to battery and again, accessibility/isolation etc. I'd not worry about external venting - IME they don't get that hot - your fridge will - but your batteries not really enough to worry about. Insulate against the external wall and just have a vent internally (IMO). You could always fit a thermostatic fan if needed. With a vent to outside more prone to cold air, condensation (=risk of shorts, rust, corrosion, higher resistance, fire). Lithium does not need venting.

My lithium is in an enclosed wooden box in my garage and temperature has been OK in -10 to +40 - not worth worrying about. My box has a little vent (internally, side and on top) but this is only for winter use so when its <8' or whatever the heat from the fridge heat exchanger is blown through the battery compartment to keep it warm. (Obvs I have compressor fridge, not gas)

No "enforced regs" per se for 12v or 240v for campervans. However you can follow best practice where possible and follow the latest electrical household regs for the 240 side.

I'd want fuses accessible easily in seconds and not inaccessible. Fuses don't just fail "bang" they can fail "melt/burn" (that goes for good brand fuses, and risk increases with corrosion, see condensation above)

Electrics on timber is generally fine - inverters etc may have specific requirements. Metal maybe for heat dissipation or for earthing, so RTFM.

My self build pics all on line. Not ever going to suggest mine is the "correct" way - those who profess to be experts in the self build community are usually the opposite! But I did mine with lots of thought/planning and even have dual circuits in case of major fault when away, and colour coordinated wires, wiring diagrams etc etc.

Just a quick brain dump and I may've misinterpreted some of your points, so hope its useful

 

[Tommohawk]

Battery is heavy and you really want it strapped in and accessible. Your main fuses will be close to battery and again, accessibility/isolation etc. I'd not worry about external venting - IME they don't get that hot - your fridge will - but your batteries not really enough to worry about. Insulate against the external wall and just have a vent internally (IMO). You could always fit a thermostatic fan if needed. With a vent to outside more prone to cold air, condensation (=risk of shorts, rust, corrosion, higher resistance, fire). Lithium does not need venting.

My lithium is in an enclosed wooden box in my garage and temperature has been OK in -10 to +40 - not worth worrying about. My box has a little vent (internally, side and on top) but this is only for winter use so when its <8' or whatever the heat from the fridge heat exchanger is blown through the battery compartment to keep it warm. (Obvs I have compressor fridge, not gas)

No "enforced regs" per se for 12v or 240v for campervans. However you can follow best practice where possible and follow the latest electrical household regs for the 240 side.

I'd want fuses accessible easily in seconds and not inaccessible. Fuses don't just fail "bang" they can fail "melt/burn" (that goes for good brand fuses, and risk increases with corrosion, see condensation above)

Electrics on timber is generally fine - inverters etc may have specific requirements. Metal maybe for heat dissipation or for earthing, so RTFM.

My self build pics all on line. Not ever going to suggest mine is the "correct" way - those who profess to be experts in the self build community are usually the opposite! But I did mine with lots of thought/planning and even have dual circuits in case of major fault when away, and colour coordinated wires, wiring diagrams etc etc.

Just a quick brain dump and I may've misinterpreted some of your points, so hope its useful

Thanks for that! Battery will be strapped in or clamped for sure. It'll be sat on the floor so should be pretty solid.
Re venting, I appreciate there's no issue with gas discharge from battery (unlike FLA) but its the combined heat of the inverter and fridge that bothers me a bit. I can vent from inside the van top and bottom so maybe thats the way to go.
Also I notice Autotrail and otheres do have external louvre type vents.
I can metal face the timber, but I cant see anything on electrics manuals to say metal mount necessary, just being super careful re fire risk.
Re regs - I'm a bit puzzled - -I thought I saw that there were hard and fast regs re motorhomes... but I've read online extensively and some info is a bit wide of the mark!
I could mount some components at the front of the cupboard to improve access, but I believe the inverter needs to be mounted upright for cooling fins to work properly, and if I mount everything at front face of the cupboard the back of that space would be blocked and wasted.
It would be possible to mount some/all components on the external front face of the cupboard ie directly behind the driver's seat, but theres very little space behind the seat so access would be a bit tricky unless seat back adjusted fully forward.
I'm not committed to anything yet, so happy to reconsider but tricky to get it both concealed for cosmetic reasons and accessible.

 

[activecampers]

Inverter will get warm, but I don't need/use an inverter
Fridge will need venting somewhere as heat does build - up to you where you dump it! Mine gets vented into the garage (not insulated) so garage can be +40'c in the sun but no harm (Garage has vent/fan if needed)

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[oldiesontour]

My self build has a battery (320ah) under each front seat the drivers also houses a 2kw inverter ,the KH shunt breakr for the inverter,the single passenger seat houses the other lipo and the 50renogy mppt b2b along with fuses etc..both are vented with thermostatic fans...but neither has ever come on to my knowledge... yesterday temp inside the van was 30+ the inverter is on 24/7 running our off grid property in Spain and solar was pushing 30+ amps

 

[oldiesontour]

Should also say the domestic(240v) fridge freezer is running in the van at -18 and 4c for the fridge

 

[Tommohawk]

My self build has a battery (320ah) under each front seat the drivers also houses a 2kw inverter ,the KH shunt breakr for the inverter,the single passenger seat houses the other lipo and the 50renogy mppt b2b along with fuses etc..both are vented with thermostatic fans...but neither has ever come on to my knowledge... yesterday temp inside the van was 30+ the inverter is on 24/7 running our off grid property in Spain and solar was pushing 30+ amps

Wow!! Amazed you have fitted that lot under the front seats! I looked at putting the battery and maybe the B2B/MPPT unit there, but decided I could use the under seat space for something for something else.
Any chance you could send a pic or 2 of how it looks?

 

[pappajohn]

One concern here is that if some fool (probably me) jetwashed the exterior, the electrics would be soaked

Vent to the inside of the van
It only needs a supply of moving air.....there won't be that much heat.
One vent high and one vent low....

 

[Minxy]

Assuming you are installing a compressor fridge you won't need external vents so no point putting them in for anything else as had been mentioned above so just vent to the interior.

Also one thing I wouldn't want is a low level fridge so consider putting the fridge at the top and storage below as you're likely to be in and out if the fridge a lot more often.

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[Terry]

Best tip I can offer is instead of cutting into van side for electric inlet simply put your lead cable under the bonnet so you can tuck it out of the way - lift bonnet to plug into mains supply -close bonnet stops anyone unplugging

 

[oldiesontour]

Wow!! Amazed you have fitted that lot under the front seats! I looked at putting the battery and maybe the B2B/MPPT unit there, but decided I could use the under seat space for something for something else.
Any chance you could send a pic or 2 of how it looks?

Will try later...the big advantage of putting batteries under the seats is all heavy cables are short have the B2B/MPPT &2ND MPPT Are at the front of the passenger seat with the lipo behind and starter battery just in front under the floor

 

[Tommohawk]

Vent to the inside of the van
It only needs a supply of moving air.....there won't be that much heat.
One vent high and one vent low....

OK, everyone is saying this so happy to that save me a job and a few quid! Still leaves me wondering why some pro vans (Eg Autotrail Vline 540) seem to have vents in the fridge area.

 

[ivorantony]

Wow!! Amazed you have fitted that lot under the front seats! I looked at putting the battery and maybe the B2B/MPPT unit there, but decided I could use the under seat space for something for something else.
Any chance you could send a pic or 2 of how it looks?

Not hijacking the thread but a couple of pictures of mine that’s still Work in progress,
Not shown as a picture but managed to fit 50 Amp frogstar battery charger above the fuses and below the inverter,
The drivers seat has a Fogstar 300 amp an additional fuse box with Victron solar controller,
Still with space for a second Victron B to B and solar controller if needed,

 

[Tommohawk]

Assuming you are installing a compressor fridge you won't need external vents so no point putting them in for anything else as had been mentioned above so just vent to the interior.

Also one thing I wouldn't want is a low level fridge so consider putting the fridge at the top and storage below as you're likely to be in and out if the fridge a lot more often.

Good shout! I'd already thought of putting it a bit higher, but maybe it could go higher yet again.

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[Guigsy]

OK, everyone is saying this so happy to that save me a job and a few quid! Still leaves me wondering why some pro vans (Eg Autotrail Vline 540) seem to have vents in the fridge area.

3 way fridges need outside venting. Compressor fridges don't.

 

[Tommohawk]

Best tip I can offer is instead of cutting into van side for electric inlet simply put your lead cable under the bonnet so you can tuck it out of the way - lift bonnet to plug into mains supply -close bonnet stops anyone unplugging

I'm all in favour of fewer holes in the van, and probably wont be using EHU much so maybe thats the way to go. I was really just trying to include whistles and bells for resale value. We used to hook the previous van up with lead through the window. Do you have a fixed EHU point under bonnet, or just loose lead?

 

[Tommohawk]

3 way fridges need outside venting. Compressor fridges don't.

OK, well explains it - many thanks!

 

[Terry]

Hi that’s upto you but in mine I simply tucked it in a hole near the headlight out of the way- do the same with the toad now under the bonnet of the VW UP Good thing is once connected it’s all away from weather under the bonnet

 

[Tommohawk]

Will try later...the big advantage of putting batteries under the seats is all heavy cables are short have the B2B/MPPT &2ND MPPT Are at the front of the passenger seat with the lipo behind and starter battery just in front under the floor

Certainly good plan to keep cables short to reduce power loss and also reduced risk of accidental cable damage. I do plan to try and keep it all together best possible.

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[Tommohawk]

Not hijacking the thread but a couple of pictures of mine that’s still Work in progress,
Not shown as a picture but managed to fit 50 Amp frogstar battery charger above the fuses and below the inverter,
The drivers seat has a Fogstar 300 amp an additional fuse box with Victron solar controller,
Still with space for a second Victron B to B and solar controller if needed,View attachment 1044086View attachment 1044087View attachment 1044088

Thats a lovely bit or work...many thanks! Not sure what your seats look like - mine are standard Relay seats and I think theres a spring which would foul anything mounted that high.
I have one big problem WRT battery and components under seats. Currently we have the standard van seats. I guess ideally we'd have better seats, if only replacing the twin passenger seat with a single driver seat. But we are on budget, and I'd like to get basics done before deciding on "upgrades". If I shoehorn electric under seats as it stands and then change seats it might mean a complete rewire.
Also I'm concerned re accessibility, and looks as though some componesnt there eg fusebox arent accesible without emoving the seat. Maybe not?

 

[oldiesontour]

I modified the double seat bottom frame ( keeping it the same height and same floor mountings as original then fitted 2 single BMW seats

 

[oldiesontour]

The front of the passenger seat with the grille has the B2B/mppt. and 2mppt mounted on the back of it with 2 fans between grille and kit.The side panels are fixed with a nut and bolt each end easily removed when front and back panels are off..wich are held in place wit 2 over center catches

 

[activecampers]

OK, well explains it - many thanks!

They still need venting, ideally active with a fan/thermosatic relay, but internally is fine. They to emit a lot of heat from the heat exchanger and you've got to move the warm away. eBay et al W1209 thermostatic switch and "silent" fans are good (but note vans are not 12v they are 12-14v....) - so you can add a diaode to reduce voltage, or voltage regulator, and if you want a PWM speed controller to get optimum air flow at the quietest speed. All cheap readily available boards, not complex.

Agree fridge higher but consider if high it will easily fly off and hit you in the back of the head in an accident, so consider how you can fix a single heavy object up high (wood and screws don't really do it..... Yes many pros don't care, but I do lol and have most heavy stuff (inc water tank) strapped via load hooks afixed through floor. All a balance, some things impossible, just think about it and do the best you can.

 

[ivorantony]

Thats a lovely bit or work...many thanks! Not sure what your seats look like - mine are standard Relay seats and I think theres a spring which would foul anything mounted that high.
I have one big problem WRT battery and components under seats. Currently we have the standard van seats. I guess ideally we'd have better seats, if only replacing the twin passenger seat with a single driver seat. But we are on budget, and I'd like to get basics done before deciding on "upgrades". If I shoehorn electric under seats as it stands and then change seats it might mean a complete rewire.
Also I'm concerned re accessibility, and looks as though some componesnt there eg fusebox arent accesible without emoving the seat. Maybe not?

No the fuses are accessible after removing side panels (3 screws) and seat are standard Ducato captains seats on swivels so they sit higher than the standard seats,

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[Tommohawk]

I modified the double seat bottom frame ( keeping it the same height and same floor mountings as original then fitted 2 single BMW seats



View attachment 1044100

View attachment 1044103

View attachment 1044104

View attachment 1044105

Nice job .. and still room for a fire extinguisher!

 

[Tommohawk]

No the fuses are accessible after removing side panels (3 screws) and seat are standard Ducato captains seats on swivels so they sit higher than the standard seats,

OK thats useful to know.

 

[oldiesontour]

Agree best to have vents or as ours a few inches off the floor with space behind fridge and cupboard above to allow natural air flow to carry heat up and out of a ventat top of the cupboard or to outside.I left the vents in place that were for the old 3 way

 

[Tommohawk]

Agree best to have vents or as ours a few inches off the floor with space behind fridge and cupboard above to allow natural air flow to carry heat up and out of a ventat top of the cupboard or to outside.I left the vents in place that were for the old 3 way



View attachment 1044106

What does the inside of those vents look like I wonder? Do they prevent water ingress?

 

[oldiesontour]

What does the inside of those vents look like I wonder? Do they prevent water ingress?

Never had a problem obviously if you sprayed it up from under the vent you may get ingress,I have 2 in the garage area as well (from when we had a compressor cool box used at -18) and have never had any ingress there either

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