Truma Gas Tap/Isolator Manifold Extension

[TinaLes]

Hope some one can help me with some advice on the above.
I am beginning to think I must have imagined that I could buy a single gas tap/isolator to extend the existing Truma manifold fron a 3 way to a 4 way unit. This is to facilitate a shut off function for an external BBQ point on our moho.
I have looked at single taps available from the likes of Leisuredirect and similar suppliers, they show Truma Manifolds for 2/3& 4 way supplies, but the single ones seem to be for single use only and not suitable to extend a Truma Manifold as they have 8mm compression nuts and olives.
What I think I need is a single tap with a female union thread on one end so that it can be screwed on having removed the blanking end nut on the existing 3 way manifold.
Has anyone managed to find the appropriate single tap extension, as I am pulling hair out trying to source one or get a response to my question from Leisure direct.
Might I have to give up trying to extend the existing 3 way and just buy a 4 way unit? which seems like a waste of a perfectly good 3 way manifold.
I honestly thought this would be a simple task, but it proving to be the opposite.
Many Thanks for any helpful responses.
Les

 

[emjaiuk]

TinaL Did you ever find a solution to this? I'm in the same position now. All I can think of is replacing the end of the existing manifold with an olive and using a short length of pipe to join a single tap. Does anyone know if the end of the manifold is 8 or 10mm, or is it the same as the input end?

Malcolm

 

[Lenny HB]

.

 

[berni109]

Almost as @emja said get a connector fitting with a bsp end that fits the manifold to an 8 or 10 mm compression.

 

[MisterB]

Or replace the three tap manifold with a four tap manifold

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[emjaiuk]

.

Did I miss something Lenny?

Malcolm

 

[Lenny HB]

Did I miss something Lenny?

Malcolm

I posted something then realised it was an old thread and probably sorted by now.

 

[emjaiuk]

I posted something then realised it was an old thread and probably sorted by now.

As far as I know TinaL didn't get a response, and I reopened the thread this morning, Any suggestions gratefully received. I did think of replacing the whole manifold, but it struck me as expensive, and would mean me making 5 gas connections rather than 2

Malcolm

 

[Lenny HB]

What I was going to say is that I would have taken a gas feed off the nearest available pipe and fitted an inline isolator tap.

 

[TinaLes]

Still struggling TBH, was not happy with using the 10-8mm compression olive kits as they can split when the Truma back nut is tightened up.
It would have been so much easier and less faff to just replace the 3 way Truma with a 4 way, but being Carthago this is virtually impossible as all the steel pipes that enter the top of the existing valve are not accessible as Carthago place them in routed grooves to the underside of worktop and then use brass reducers/adaptors to fit their various sized steel pipes. The Truma manifold is then attached to the metal face plate,specially shaped holes are then cut through the metal face plate so only the red tap tops are visible from the front. Without taking out the worktop/gas hob & sink you cannot get to the Truma manifold, so that option is out also.

The end of the existing Truma 3 way valve has a 3/8th BSP Tapered compression nut (unique to Truma, with a long specially shaped brass blank plug.
As I know I cannot use any soldered reduction joints ie.10-8mm as its LPG, I had a local engineering company turn/make me a 65mm long brass tube, which is 10mm one end and reducing to 8mm the other.
The single Truma gas tap I have now fits nicely on the 8mm end of my adaptor tube, however the 10mm end didn't compress the standard olive tight enough before reaching the end of its thread.
I now have a selection of 10mm brass & copper olives but none are as long as the 8mm Truma ones which are unique. I cannot get another 10mm Truma Back nut either as all the suppliers only stock 8mm.
I am now in the process of making a 10mm brass packing ring to fit behind the 10mm olive to make it slightly longer so that it will now hope fully compress the olive nice & tight before running out of thread.
Wish me luck, I am past pulling hair out on this one.
Les

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[emjaiuk]

Thanks Les

I was about to take the end cap and have a look. I won't bother now.

 

[emjaiuk]

I might go with Lenny HB 's suggestion and T off the gas feed at the back of the fridge. It would mean putting the tap behind the lower fridge grill, but that's easy enough to access.
Any thoughts anybody?

Malcolm

 

[TinaLes]

I might go with Lenny HB 's suggestion and T off the gas feed at the back of the fridge. It would mean putting the tap behind the lower fridge grill, but that's easy enough to access.
Any thoughts anybody?

Malcolm

Yes that appears to be what most people have done or tap into any pipe after the regulator with a tee piece and separate isolator tap.
However a couple of LPG qualified engineers told me this was the wrong thing to do for an external BBQ point. They said that by cutting into the FF supply, and that being that a BBQ takes a lot of gas on full heat, that the FF gas supply pipe would not be able to supply both so one would be starved of gas pressure. Therefore they said the BBQ needs its own gas feed pipe, and that should come off the manifold, as that is designed to cope.
Rightly or wrongly I heeded this advice as it seemed feasible that one 8mm feed pipe could not supply both appliances at the same time, hence why the main feed pipe to the Truma manifold is a bigger bore pipe to enable it to serve all the appliances connected onto it.
I also liked the idea that all the appliance shut off taps were in the one location inside the top of the cutlery draw, and each appliance can be isolated separately should I ever have a gas leak on any appliance.
I have the parts now, I have made a cutout in the metal front plate for the single Truma tap, so with some better luck it should be Ok when I get in there later in the week.

Les

 

[emjaiuk]

Did you manage to add the extra tap? What did you have to do in the end?

 

[tonyidle]

I might go with Lenny HB 's suggestion and T off the gas feed at the back of the fridge. It would mean putting the tap behind the lower fridge grill, but that's easy enough to access.
Any thoughts anybody?

Malcolm

Why do you need a tap? In the unlikely event of BBQ connector failure the fridge isolator will turn off both.

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[Lenny HB]

Why do you need a tap? In the unlikely event of BBQ connector failure the fridge isolator will turn off both.

But then the beer would get warm.

 

[TinaLes]

Did you manage to add the extra tap? What did you have to do in the end?

I came off the end of the existing 3 way Truma isolating valve manifold. I unscrewed the end cap to discover the pipe size required was 10mm. I tried all sorts of reducing olive sets to get back down to 8mm but these all failed. The single Truma Isolator tap that I purchased was the same to look at as the the existing Truma valves, but was 8mm each end.
I gave up for a while, scratching my head on how to get over this problem, in the end I went to an engineering company and asked them to make me a brass tube 10mm reducing to 8mm with a 6mm bore to match the inside of the 8mm copper pipe, it needed to be only 64mm long to match the spacing of the existing Truma Taps. They did it for me at great cost, I could have done it if I had a lathe in 15 minutes myself, but hey ho, needs must.
I eventually fitted it,cut out a new funny shaped tap hole in metal face panel inside cutlery draw, fitted it mostly by feel to the rear of the mounting plate, and with the use of a makeup mirror and torch,I managed it..... yes the air was blue but I did it, tested it, and it works

Ideally if I could have replaced the existing 3 way manifold for a 4 way, it would have been simpler & cheaper, but being a Carthago, nothing is designed to be removed/replaced easily after manufacture. The existing gas pipes varied from 8mm to 10mm depending on which appliance they are serving, and the pipes are in grooves routed out and clipped to the underside of the kitchen worktop. They had also used bespoke brass reducers on the manifold outlets to achieve the job, all done in black coated rigid steel pipes, which were done up so tight I think I would have done more damage than I can imagine to get them undone in such a restricted place.
I wont be doing that job in a hurry again, even running the new gas pipe to the external BBQ outlet between the floors, took an age to fish through because of the transverse double floor supports every 600mm.
Lesson learnt, all pipes & cables go into floor trunkings before they put the inside second floor in place, making it hard to hide any new pipes or cables.
LES

 

[Nixdorfer]

This is something I plan to do when I get time. Autogas sell the truma 10mm special olives.

I was just going to use a short section of pipe to connect the tap to the manifold. Have seen a non truma tap that's 10 one end and 8 the other so may be the easiest solution as my bullfinch is 8mm

 

[Basildog]

I was only talking to another gas safe fitter the other day about this and without doing all the proper calculations you couldn’t really say if the pipe size was likely to cause problems, very unlikely given that an average fridge/freezer burner is only around a third of a kilowatt maximum.
However making or altering your own your own gas fittings takes this into entirely different territory
Fine for a private owner using it himself technically but an unsuspecting dealer or other that then sells it to the next owner
BBQ points all come with positive shut off devices built in apart from the ones Silicone Bob and his band of PTFE bandits fit with a Fulham nozzle and lever valve under the van

 

[TinaLes]

This is something I plan to do when I get time. Autogas sell the truma 10mm special olives.

I was just going to use a short section of pipe to connect the tap to the manifold. Have seen a non truma tap that's 10 one end and 8 the other so may be the easiest solution as my bullfinch is 8mm

Yes Autogas sell the 10mm olives & back nuts for the Truma valves, but not a reducer to come out the end at 10mm, then reduce to 8mm for your new additional tap. I know this to my great frustration, hence why I had to get a bespoke reducing pipe made.
If you do manage to find a straight brass 10mm to 8mm reducer fitting, other than olive sets, please let me know.
Thanks.
LES

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[Nixdorfer]

This was the nearest thing I could think of but means using a short 8mm connecting pipe as its male-female

<Broken link removed>

 

[TinaLes]

This was the nearest thing I could think of but means using a short 8mm connecting pipe as its male-female

<Broken link removed>

Yes that will do the job, all you need now is a 10mm back nut & brass gas olive to complete the job.
That's a bargain price to pay, much cheaper than the cost of my bespoke one I had to have made.
The only neg is that the additional Truma single shut off tap, works horizontally compared with the taps on the Truma manifold taps which are vertical, but that's just me being picky.
Good luck, you are doing it the correct way, no PTFE or Sealant needed, just gas detection spray, plus a honeywell gas leak detector that Lenny HB convinced me to buy recently for belt & braces.
LES