Truck overtaking ban - 3.5t or 7.5t ?

[nicholsong]

On the Pro Mobil website, after the April Fool piece, is the following extract (dated 26.03.2025) in an article about 'B' licences going up to 4.25t -

"Please note! The traffic regulations, insurance and toll conditions, etc., that currently apply to vehicles over 3.5 tons will not change. In concrete terms, this means: You will be allowed to drive the four-ton vehicle with a B driver's license after passing the training or test, but the truck overtaking ban and the 100 km/h speed limit on motorways will still apply."

I had always understood that the truck overtaking ban, signed with a red truck outside a car, applied to over 7.5t not over 3.5t.

Is this article correct in that the ban applies to over 3.5t?

 

[Flairy]

I was told it was trucks as well over 7.5 ton

 

[jongood]

If it has the truck symbol then it only applies to trucks, if it doesnt have it then it applies to all vehicles, except for the French then it doesnt apply to Camping Cars

 

[nicholsong]

If it has the truck symbol then it only applies to trucks, if it doesnt have it then it applies to all vehicles, except for the French then it doesnt apply to Camping Cars

Yes Jon, but 'trucks' like Private Heavy Goods Vehicles over 3.5t, as the article states, or only trucks over 7.5t?

 

[funflair]

If it has the truck symbol then it only applies to trucks, if it doesnt have it then it applies to all vehicles, except for the French then it doesnt apply to Camping Cars

No 277 here Jon, I think it's the passenger bit that excludes motorhomes

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Roby2008]

On the Pro Mobil website, after the April Fool piece, is the following extract (dated 26.03.2025) in an article about 'B' licences going up to 4.25t -

"Please note! The traffic regulations, insurance and toll conditions, etc., that currently apply to vehicles over 3.5 tons will not change. In concrete terms, this means: You will be allowed to drive the four-ton vehicle with a B driver's license after passing the training or test, but the truck overtaking ban and the 100 km/h speed limit on motorways will still apply."

I had always understood that the truck overtaking ban, signed with a red truck outside a car, applied to over 7.5t not over 3.5t.

Is this article correct in that the ban applies to over 3.5t?

Unfortunately for those over 3.5, it does....it is on the sign poster below.

For speed limits:
The StVO (Straßenverkehrsordnung), which governs car traffic in Germany, is the same for motorhomes up to 3.5 tonnes.

On the other hand, motorhomes over 3.5 tonnes will have to comply with different speed limits.

If you are driving a motorhome weighing up to 3.5 tonnes, the speed limits are:

50 km/h in towns

100 km/h outside towns and villages

120 km/h on express roads

Some German motorways don’t have speed limits, but the German Automobile Association (ADAC) recommends a speed limit of 130 km/h.

If you are driving a motorhome with a weight between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes, you will have to respect these speed limits:

50 km/h in towns

80 km/h outside towns and villages, including express roads

100 km/h on motorways

Some municipalities or regions may impose special bans on vehicles of a certain size.

 

[Roby2008]

. Duplicate post

 

[Podney]

On the Pro Mobil website, after the April Fool piece, is the following extract (dated 26.03.2025) in an article about 'B' licences going up to 4.25t -

"Please note! The traffic regulations, insurance and toll conditions, etc., that currently apply to vehicles over 3.5 tons will not change. In concrete terms, this means: You will be allowed to drive the four-ton vehicle with a B driver's license after passing the training or test, but the truck overtaking ban and the 100 km/h speed limit on motorways will still apply."

I had always understood that the truck overtaking ban, signed with a red truck outside a car, applied to over 7.5t not over 3.5t.

Is this article correct in that the ban applies to over 3.5t?

.

 

[JockandRita]

For those of us over 3.5T, lower speed limits have always applied in the EU, but where the speed restriction and "no overtaking" signs depict a commercial vehicle on them (regardless of weight), the restriction does not apply to Motorhomes/Camping Cars.
As an example, the 80Kph speed restriction along a good syretch of the A16 near Calais, applies to all vehicles over 3.5T, as it does not depict a particular classification of vehicle.

On the German Autobahn, I have often seen Motorhomes/Wohnmobiles queued up in the inside lane along with the Trucks, where a "no overtaking" restriction is in place, yet the signs depict a red commercial vehicle overtaking a black car, with either a 3.5T or 7.5T weight restriction displayed underneath.
Because the restriction doesn't apply to us, I whizz on by, pulling in where there is a decent gap to allow others to overtake us. We are plated at 6.85T

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[nicholsong]

No 277 here Jon, I think it's the passenger bit that excludes motorhomes

Martin, No. 277 of what, and in which country?

Unfortunately for those over 3.5, it does....it is on the sign poster below.

For speed limits:
The StVO (Straßenverkehrsordnung), which governs car traffic in Germany, is the same for motorhomes up to 3.5 tonnes.

On the other hand, motorhomes over 3.5 tonnes will have to comply with different speed limits.

If you are driving a motorhome weighing up to 3.5 tonnes, the speed limits are:

50 km/h in towns

100 km/h outside towns and villages

120 km/h on express roads

Some German motorways don’t have speed limits, but the German Automobile Association (ADAC) recommends a speed limit of 130 km/h.

If you are driving a motorhome with a weight between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes, you will have to respect these speed limits:

50 km/h in towns

80 km/h outside towns and villages, including express roads

100 km/h on motorways

Some municipalities or regions may impose special bans on vehicles of a certain size.




View attachment 1038057

The sign I am referring to is second row from bottom and 5th from left. The notice below is difficult to read, but looks like 3.5t authorised, which seems to be all vehicles over 3.5t.

For those of us over 3.5T, lower speed limits have always applied in the EU, but where the speed restriction and "no overtaking" signs depict a commercial vehicle on them (regardless of weight), the restriction does not apply to Motorhomes/Camping Cars.
As an example, the 80Kph speed restriction along a good syretch of the A16 near Calais, applies to all vehicles over 3.5T, as it does not depict a particular classification of vehicle.

On the German Autobahn, I have often seen Motorhomes/Wohnmobiles queued up in the inside lane along with the Trucks, where a "no overtaking" restriction is in place, yet the signs depict a red commercial vehicle overtaking a black car, with either a 3.5T or 7.5T weight restriction displayed underneath.
Because the restriction doesn't apply to us, I whizz on by, pulling in where there is a decent gap to allow others to overtake us. We are plated at 6.85T

Cheers,

Jock.

There seems to be a difference of opinion about whether the 3.5t overtaking limit applies to only commercial vehicles and whether there is an exemption for passenger vehicles.

I am yet to be convinced either way.

Geoff

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gus-lopez]

Is this article correct in that the ban applies to over 3.5t?

In France it has always been anything over 3,5T if the sign shows no overtaking car past car.
If it shows truck past car it is commercial only no overtaking ,as is truck past truck..

 

[G7UXG]

I would have thought the ‘no overtaking’ restriction is perhaps there to prevent elephant racing, i.e. one truck overtaking another with little speed differential because they are both limited to 90km/h via their tachograph installations.

It would be sensible if this restriction applied to vehicles with speed limiters I.e., commercial vehicles which cause havoc when taking 3 miles to overtake another speed restricted vehicle.

But when was the law in any country ever sensible?

 

[funflair]

Martin, No. 277 of what, and in which country?


The sign I am referring to is second row from bottom and 5th from left. The notice below is difficult to read, but looks like 3.5t authorised, which seems to be all vehicles over 3.5t.




There seems to be a difference of opinion about whether the 3.5t overtaking limit applies to only commercial vehicles and whether there is an exemption for passenger vehicles.

I am yet to be convinced either way.

Geoff

I missed the link so went back and added it Geoff, 277 is one of the sign numbers.

 

[Roby2008]

Maybe this is clearer , I have never seen a MH sysmbol on one of the signs, so, Under 3.5 you are a car, over 3.5 you are a truck or a bus, I am under 3.5, so I have no problems but it is an interesting discussion.⁣ and if I can help, I will.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

Did it not used to be law in Germany that any overtaking had to be completed within 10secs?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Orion]

Did it not used to be law in Germany that any overtaking had to be completed within 10secs?

That was for the FW190 - the ME262 was less.

 

[funflair]

Maybe this is clearer , I have never seen a MH sysmbol on one of the signs, so, Under 3.5 you are a car, over 3.5 you are a truck or a bus, I am under 3.5, so I have no problems but it is an interesting discussion.⁣ and if I can help, I will.View attachment 1038162

This is a slightly different description of your sign "top middle" slightly different in that it excludes buses and heavy passenger cars, not sure where a motorhome with more than two belted seats and class 4 MOT rather than class 7 so not a commercial fits there was a discussion on the German LinerTreff forum a few months back and they seemed as confused as we are.

 

[Orion]

This is a slightly different description of your sign "top middle" slightly different in that it excludes buses and heavy passenger cars, not sure where a motorhome with more than two belted seats and class 4 MOT rather than class 7 so not a commercial fits there was a discussion on the German LinerTreff forum a few months back and they seemed as confused as we are.

View attachment 1038249

Does it refer back to Class M1 being exempt, whereas the overtaking restriction would be applicable to N2?

 

[Carpmart]

I’m even more confused now!!!

So, taking a practical example, say Bordeaux ring road or N10 north of Angeline, that’s got 80kph 3.5T signs, is that Motorhome or just lorry’s?

 

[JockandRita]

So, taking a practical example, say Bordeaux ring road or N10 north of Angeline, that’s got 80kph 3.5T signs, is that Motorhome or just lorry’s?

If it's a straight forward 3.5T restriction Harvey, with no depiction of a vehicle classification, then it applies to all vehicles.

Cheers,

Jock.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jongood]

I’m even more confused now!!!

So, taking a practical example, say Bordeaux ring road or N10 north of Angeline, that’s got 80kph 3.5T signs, is that Motorhome or just lorry’s?

I've always believed that because the 80km/h limit on those stretches has a 3.5t label on it, then it applies to Mh over 3.5t. However because the no overtaking sign has a pictogram that is generally used to depict a Commercial Lorry then we are allowed to overtake. I've overtaken in view of gendarmes and there's nothing on the mat so far.

I agree with the elephant racing analogy but the big problem with keeping trucks in one lane is that the agressive dimwit sector of car drivers who try and force their way onto the carriageway, still cannot understand why lorries dont jump across to let them enter.

 

[Roby2008]

Did it not used to be law in Germany that any overtaking had to be completed within 10secs?

Don't know about that, but generally, if it's 2mm from your rear bumper flashing its lights and going 200 faster than safe, it will be a black BMW on Munich plates that expects you to vaporize to let him/her/it through.....

 

[Roby2008]

This is a slightly different description of your sign "top middle" slightly different in that it excludes buses and heavy passenger cars, not sure where a motorhome with more than two belted seats and class 4 MOT rather than class 7 so not a commercial fits there was a discussion on the German LinerTreff forum a few months back and they seemed as confused as we are.

View attachment 1038249

It is certainly confusing, sticking with what you see on the signs in black and white is the safe option, it doesn't take that much out of your life...

 

[Roby2008]

For those of us over 3.5T, lower speed limits have always applied in the EU, but where the speed restriction and "no overtaking" signs depict a commercial vehicle on them (regardless of weight), the restriction does not apply to Motorhomes/Camping Cars.
As an example, the 80Kph speed restriction along a good syretch of the A16 near Calais, applies to all vehicles over 3.5T, as it does not depict a particular classification of vehicle.

On the German Autobahn, I have often seen Motorhomes/Wohnmobiles queued up in the inside lane along with the Trucks, where a "no overtaking" restriction is in place, yet the signs depict a red commercial vehicle overtaking a black car, with either a 3.5T or 7.5T weight restriction displayed underneath.
Because the restriction doesn't apply to us, I whizz on by, pulling in where there is a decent gap to allow others to overtake us. We are plated at 6.85T

Cheers,

Jock.

The chances of you being stopped are slim, they have enough trucks to worry about, unless they are having one of the regular WoMo (MH) blitzes and stopping everyone in a white box or converted horse box; the signs are weight-based, not commercial/non-commercial based; the truck symbol is just that, a symbol; the information on it it what is important. Over 3.5 and not listed as an exception, then you should be obeying the signs.(as all good Germans do ).

Keep calm and carry on (past everything).

 

[JockandRita]

The chances of you being stopped are slim,

You are absolutely spot on, especially as I am complying with the weight/speed restrictions as displayed on the signage.
Like jongood, I am a qualified and experienced HGV & PSV driver of 47 x years now, so I have a fair idea of how the rules apply, both in the EU and here at home in the UK.

On our last 3 x month trip in the MH recently, I was flashed 3 x times during our travels through France. This happens almost every year depending on which route I take, however, there has never been a "French Letter" waiting for us on the door mat from any of those journeys.
This is because despite being flashed, I have complied with the restriction appertaining to the type of vehicle I am driving, ie, a Camping Car, regardless of it's weight or size, with the latter being the reason for getting flashed. Getting flashed on the Bordeaux Ring Road is usually a dead cert in a MH.

Cheers,

Jock.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}