Troubleshooting KS Energy Lithium Leisure Battery Discharge

[helzie2020]

We’re having some problems with our KS Energy BT_KS0363 lithium leisure battery today.

We’ve just driven from Ripon down to Sandwich. The KS Energy phone app showed the leisure battery to be discharging during the whole 280 mile drive (about 5 hours), and the SOC stayed pretty much around 63%, despite getting input from the van battery and a bit of solar (about 20 to 40 watts). Usually, the leisure battery will easily re-charge to 100% within a couple of hours of driving.

The SOC has dropped from 64% to 56% in the 3 hours after we parked; I would say that a typical off-grid stop would see the SOC falling to around 65% to 75% over about 15 hours. We’re not drawing anything more than usual: the 12V compressor fridge, some LED lights and recharging phones. We don’t really have any items which draw a lot of current: no air-con, no TV, no electric heating or hot water.

We’re about to get a ferry to France tomorrow and are a bit worried that our battery just isn’t charging properly. We don’t know if we have a problem with the battery or with the Sterling BB1260 B2B.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[Jev88]

Turn everything off (inc solar) and wait 30 minutes. Measure battery voltage and note it down. Now turn on solar - if voltage doesn't increase measured at battery then solar is not working or connection lost to battery.
Turn off solar and start engine/B2B. Measure voltage again to see if actually charging.

 

[Tombola]

I have KS energy batteries

Do you have an inverter attached to it? and is it powering things like
Fridge
Battery charger, air con etc by mistake.
if not
...Open the app, start the engine and monitor if the b2b is throwing a charge in.

 

[autorouter]

We don’t know if we have a problem with the battery or with the Sterling BB1260 B2B.

There should be a fuse on the input wire to the B2B, located near the starter battery. Check that fuse is OK.

What kind of fuse is it - Maxi blade fuse, Midi fuse or ANLfuse? My Sterling 70A B2B blew a 100A Maxi blade fuse twice, and I was advised to change to a 100A Midi fuse. That was some years ago, no further problems since then.

 

[helzie2020]

Thanks everyone.

We haven't solved our problem but I think we have a better idea of what is going on.

We think that our Sterling BB1260 Battery to Battery is the problem. It's not dead because there are lights showing on the B2B.

The KS Energy app (for the lithium battery) shows that the battery is charging (albeit slowly) whenever we get some sun on the solar panels. However, when there is no sun, the KS Energy app shows that the battery is discharging, even when we are driving.

We are now on EHU and the KS Energy app shows that the battery is charging.

So, it seems that the B2B is not working to charge when driving.

We did a factory reset on the Sterling BB1260, which seemed to complete okay, but it didn't resolve the problem.

Overnight last night, the SOC of the battery only dropped about the usual amount so we are pretty sure that there was no additional power draw, over and above our usual. We don't have an inverter installed in the van.

I think we'll try to find somewhere here in France to check out the B2B as we are out of our depth!

It's an earlier generation of the BB1260, which I think have been known to have problems (this is actually a replacement for our first Sterling BB1260, which was installed early 2022 and developed another problem last year).

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[autorouter]

It's an earlier generation of the BB1260, which I think have been known to have problems (this is actually a replacement for our first Sterling BB1260, which was installed early 2022 and developed another problem last year).

Can you post a picture of the B2B? If it's an earlier version then it might not have some firmware functions that the later ones have. The major firmware revisions are usually denoted by something on the front panel - a green stripe for example.

 

[helzie2020]

 

[MichaelT]

A lot of people have had issues with the sterling B2B so would suggest changing for a Victron one.

 

[headlight]

View attachment 951050View attachment 951052

Have you altered the settings on the B2B at all as it is very easy to think you have selected lithium when in fact you have actually put the B2B into standby.
Don't ask how I know lol.

 

[Pausim]

Does your van have a smart alternator? Your B2B may be voltage activated and this will not work with a smart alternator.

Do you have a split charge relay that was not disabled when the B2B was fitted? This might allow the battery to discharge into the engine battery.

The B2B does not appear to have a lithium profile and the 13.8V it seems to be set on is not sufficient to charge a lithium battery (or a Gel one come to that).

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[headlight]

Does your van have a smart alternator? Your B2B may be voltage activated and this will not work with a smart alternator.

Do you have a split charge relay that was not disabled when the B2B was fitted? This might allow the battery to discharge into the engine battery.

The B2B does not appear to have a lithium profile and the 13.8V it seems to be set on is not sufficient to charge a lithium battery (or a Gel one come to that).

The LifePo4 setting is the very top one in the picture.
Setting number 12.

 

[Pausim]

The LifePo4 setting is the very top one in the picture.
Setting number 12.

Setting 12 is probably the closest but the top one is desulphation and this voltage is far too high for LiFePO4, it will have the BMS battery protection going apoplectic.

 

[headlight]

Setting 12 is probably the closest but the top one is desulphation and this voltage is far too high for LiFePO4, it will have the BMS battery protection going apoplectic.

Setting 12 is LifePo4, 14.4v bulk charge and 13.6v float iirc, no desulfation.
I have the same B2B and a 230AH LifePo4.

 

[headlight]

The gel and sealed lights shouldn't be on nor the custom voltages.

 

[headlight]

I think that the B2B is configured wrongly.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[yorkiebar]

Give Sterling a call.

 

[autorouter]

The gel and sealed lights shouldn't be on nor the custom voltages.

The 'User Interface' for the Sterling B2B is truly abysmal. It can be totally misleading. However it has two modes: Setup and Running. The LEDs only indicate the profile choice in setup mode.

In Running mode, as it is here, the left LEDs indicate alternator input voltage, and the right LEDs indicate output voltage to the battery. If two LEDs are lit, the voltage is halfway between them. So this picture is indicating an input voltage of 13.6V, and an output voltage of 13.2V

The top LEDs indicate that it is in the 'bulk' charging stage.

 

[helzie2020]

The B2B was installed professionally in 2022, not by ourselves. The original one developed an overheating fault and was replaced in October last year (same installer), since when it has been working fine up until 2 days ago.

It was set up for a lithium battery when it was installed and the LEDs on the front of the B2B suggest that it is still set for lithium (the LiFePO4 LED is lit).

Our van is 2021 Fiat Ducato. It does have a smart alternator.

We just had a phone call with Sterling technical help. Unfortunately, unless you have significantly more technical expertise than we have, it wasn't very helpful!

 

[MichaelT]

The B2B was installed professionally in 2022, not by ourselves. The original one developed an overheating fault and was replaced in October last year (same installer), since when it has been working fine up until 2 days ago.

It was set up for a lithium battery when it was installed and the LEDs on the front of the B2B suggest that it is still set for lithium (the LiFePO4 LED is lit).

Our van is 2021 Fiat Ducato. It does have a smart alternator.

We just had a phone call with Sterling technical help. Unfortunately, unless you have significantly more technical expertise than we have, it wasn't very helpful!

How about the company who fitted it can they help?

I think DBK has a sterling he may be able to help.

 

[headlight]

The 'User Interface' for the Sterling B2B is truly abysmal. It can be totally misleading. However it has two modes: Setup and Running. The LEDs only indicate the profile choice in setup mode.

In Running mode, as it is here, the left LEDs indicate alternator input voltage, and the right LEDs indicate output voltage to the battery. If two LEDs are lit, the voltage is halfway between them. So this picture is indicating an input voltage of 13.6V, and an output voltage of 13.2V

The top LEDs indicate that it is in the 'bulk' charging stage.

So it is out putting 13.2v in bulk charging ?
The LifePo4 setting on that unit is 14.4v bulk and 13.6v float so something is wrong I think.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[autorouter]

It was set up for a lithium battery when it was installed and the LEDs on the front of the B2B suggest that it is still set for lithium (the LiFePO4 LED is lit).

No, that would be true if it was in Setup Mode. However in Running Mode, that LED indicates that it is in the Bulk/Boost charging stage. Confused? Welcome to the club

 

[headlight]

The B2B was installed professionally in 2022, not by ourselves. The original one developed an overheating fault and was replaced in October last year (same installer), since when it has been working fine up until 2 days ago.

It was set up for a lithium battery when it was installed and the LEDs on the front of the B2B suggest that it is still set for lithium (the LiFePO4 LED is lit).

Our van is 2021 Fiat Ducato. It does have a smart alternator.

We just had a phone call with Sterling technical help. Unfortunately, unless you have significantly more technical expertise than we have, it wasn't very helpful!

The LifePo4 led on my unit was lit but it was actually in standby.
They are quite confusing.

 

[autorouter]

So it is out putting 13.2v in bulk charging ?
The LifePo4 setting on that unit is 14.4v bulk and 13.6v float so something is wrong I think.

I agree it doesn't look right, but in the bulk charging stage, it should push out its full 60A output current, and the voltage will rise to whatever it gets to. Up to 14.4V if that's what the absorption voltage is set to. However if the battery is very flat, it's possible that it is pushing in 60A but the voltage has only risen to 13.2V.

It needs checking with a clamp meter to be sure that the required 60A current is indeed flowing. If not, then as you say, something is wrong.

 

[Pausim]

Setting 12 is LifePo4, 14.4v bulk charge and 13.6v float iirc, no desulfation.
I have the same B2B and a 230AH LifePo4.

I was just clarifying that the top setting in the picture was not LiFePO4 but desulphation.

 

[autorouter]

I was just clarifying that the top setting in the picture was not LiFePO4 but desulphation.

Depends what you mean by 'top'. Yes, it's the top setting of that list on the left. But there's another LED just above it in the other section of the display, with the label 'LiFePO4' in a different colour. In Setup mode it 's used to indicate that you're setting up the LiFePO4 profile, believe it or not.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

Depends what you mean by 'top'. Yes, it's the top setting of that list on the left. But there's another LED just above it in the other section of the display, with the label 'LiFePO4' in a different colour. In Setup mode it 's used to indicate that you're setting up the LiFePO4 profile, believe it or not.

I am happy to believe it.

 

[helzie2020]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I’m still somewhat lost but feel that I’m getting a bit more of an idea of things.

Here is an update:

This morning, we stopped by a motorhome repair centre in Germany with good reviews on Google and listed expertise in batteries and solar, etc.

Two of them spent about 45 minutes, there and then, checking things out. The fuses all seemed to be okay. In the end, they reckoned that the settings were wrong and they changed them (it seemed plausible that the original settings input by the installer were lost when we did the factory reset). Anyway, they reckoned that they had fixed the problem but refused to take any payment (which is the second time that has happened to us in Germany!).

I wasn’t convinced that the problem had been fixed. By that stage, I think I had a better idea of some of the readings on the KS Energy phone app. I had really only looked at the first screen before, which gives overall SOC as a %, Voltage, Capacity, Status and Health.

After we left the repairer today, I’ve been looking at the second screen, which has two dials. The left dial seems to indicate the battery voltage. I think that the right dial is indicating the input in amps. If that is the case, then we are definitely not getting anywhere near the 60amps we should be getting from the B2B when driving. It’s been hovering between less than 1A and up to about 9A, but I think that is all coming from the two 120W solar panels as it has been fairly sunny today and the power showing in the VictronConnect app has been around 120W (which I think would be about 10amps).

Since the problem wasn’t solved, we stopped at another motorhome repair place. They said that they never install 60A B2Bs as they always have problems. Unfortunately, they didn’t have a Victron Orion XS 50A B2B; if the had, we would just have asked them to install it.

 

[MichaelT]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I’m still somewhat lost but feel that I’m getting a bit more of an idea of things.

Here is an update:

This morning, we stopped by a motorhome repair centre in Germany with good reviews on Google and listed expertise in batteries and solar, etc.

Two of them spent about 45 minutes, there and then, checking things out. The fuses all seemed to be okay. In the end, they reckoned that the settings were wrong and they changed them (it seemed plausible that the original settings input by the installer were lost when we did the factory reset). Anyway, they reckoned that they had fixed the problem but refused to take any payment (which is the second time that has happened to us in Germany!).

I wasn’t convinced that the problem had been fixed. By that stage, I think I had a better idea of some of the readings on the KS Energy phone app. I had really only looked at the first screen before, which gives overall SOC as a %, Voltage, Capacity, Status and Health.

After we left the repairer today, I’ve been looking at the second screen, which has two dials. The left dial seems to indicate the battery voltage. I think that the right dial is indicating the input in amps. If that is the case, then we are definitely not getting anywhere near the 60amps we should be getting from the B2B when driving. It’s been hovering between less than 1A and up to about 9A, but I think that is all coming from the two 120W solar panels as it has been fairly sunny today and the power showing in the VictronConnect app has been around 120W (which I think would be about 10amps).

Since the problem wasn’t solved, we stopped at another motorhome repair place. They said that they never install 60A B2Bs as they always have problems. Unfortunately, they didn’t have a Victron Orion XS 50A B2B; if the had, we would just have asked them to install it.



View attachment 951999

View attachment 952000

The first shot says you are discharging at 3.4a was this taken with engine running?

 

[bigtwin]

The first shot says you are discharging at 3.4a was this taken with engine running?

And the second image confirms that.

Ian

 

[autorouter]

I have a Sterling B2B, similar to the OP's B2B, except that the input is 70A at about 12V but the output is suitable for charging a 48V battery bank. Some aspects of the setup are exactly the same, I think.

It is important when setting up the B2B that it is triggered by the D+ signal from the alternator. However this is not the default behaviour, and if you did a factory reset then the D+ triggering will need to be set up again (the default mode is a voltage trigger level, which is problematic with smart alternators). The green stripe across the front panel tells me that the firmware upgrade to enable D+ triggering has been implemented.

The procedure for setting it into the D+ triggering mode is detailed in the manual, and involves multiple presses of the flaky SETUP/ENTER and SELECT keys for the defined number of seconds. Very tedious and prone to error. Looking on the bright side, it only needs to be done once. Unless someone does a factory reset, of course.

The manual breezily suggests that the B2B will work fine straight out of the box, but that's not true if it's a smart alternator.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}