Travel to the EU: Spouse is EU passport holder

[Barchetta47]

Hi,

I know there have been several threads on here about the ‘process’ when accompanying your spouse who has an EU passport. A friend of mine has a Dutch wife with an EU passport. They recently travelled to the Netherlands and he had his UK passport stamped on the way in to France but not on the way out. He has an appointment tomorrow with French customs in Dover to discuss/correct the missed stamp.

Are there any particular questions anyone would like asked about the process? I thought this might be a chance to try and get clarification.

 

[Bolti]

He should not have had his passport stamped at all but must produce his marriage certificate to prove his status.

 

[Orion]

He should not have had his passport stamped at all but must produce his marriage certificate to prove his status.

I can’t find anything in the legislation or border force manual that indicates that to be the procedure - unless the non-EU partner also holds a residency card. Everything states that an accompanying non-EU partner must have their passport stamped in and out, unless you have found something I’ve missed?

The real fun and games will start when the electronic systems are up and running and we, (my wife is Irish), have to account for our time within the EU!

 

[Bolti]

I can’t find anything in the legislation or border force manual that indicates that to be the procedure - unless the non-EU partner also holds a residency card. Everything states that an accompanying non-EU partner must have their passport stamped in and out, unless you have found something I’ve missed?

The real fun and games will start when the electronic systems are up and running and we, (my wife is Irish), have to account for our time within the EU!

Why would he/ she need a residency card when a passport is a citizenship document.

 

[Orion]

Why would he/ she need a residency card when a passport is a citizenship document.

Residency in an EU country. It’s not ‘needed’ but negates having to have their non-EU passport stamped if they have one.

It’s detailed in Article 5 of DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL:

Right of entry

1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls, Member States shall grant Union citizens leave to enter their territory with a valid identity card or passport and shall grant family members who are not nationals of a Member State leave to enter their territory with a valid passport.

This is the relevant section (my bold):

3. The host Member State shall not place an entry or exit stamp in the passport of family members who are not nationals of a Member State provided that they present the residence card provided for in Article 10.

So no residence card and we have our passports stamped.

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[Manxcat]

I am with my wife who has an Irish passport . My passport was stamped both in and out. We were in France for 8 weeks.

I am looking forward to seeing what the process actually is when we break the 90/180 rules but that is not likely until next year now.

My presumption is that when we break the rules all I will be required to do is produce my marriage certificate and if necessary evidence of us travelling together.

 

[jumartoo]

Sooo, your passport is stamped when travelling with your spouse, an EU passport holder. You can go over the 90 days in Schengen if you can prove you were travelling together. All well and good and proof of marriage can be shown.

What happens then if you want to travel somewhere alone? How do you prove that the previous "overstay" was legit?? and you're starting from 0 days.

 

[Orion]

Sooo, your passport is stamped when travelling with your spouse, an EU passport holder. You can go over the 90 days in Schengen if you can prove you were travelling together. All well and good and proof of marriage can be shown.

What happens then if you want to travel somewhere alone? How do you prove that the previous "overstay" was legit?? and you're starting from 0 days.

Retain evidence of previous travel together? Copies of ferry bookings showing both of you would probably do it. I’m already compiling a file of our joint travels - just in case. I’m fully expecting to be pulled to one side for questioning once the centralised electronic systems come into operation as there doesn’t appear to be a mechanism to allow for it.

 

[jumartoo]

Retain evidence of previous travel together? Copies of ferry bookings showing both of you would probably do it. I’m already compiling a file of our joint travels - just in case. I’m fully expecting to be pulled to one side for questioning once the centralised electronic systems come into operation as there doesn’t appear to be a mechanism to allow for it.

It would simplify it if you weren't stamped when travelling together and only stamped if alone.

Simple solutions are never introduced though, are they

 

[Carpmart]

I’ve broken the 90/180 (119 days) period this year whilst travelling with my EU (Irish) wife. Five days after returning, I went solo to Spain and all was fine…. I am actually at the point of thinking the reality is, border control don’t really care!

I’ve mixed feelings about the ESTA system (if and when it is finally implemented!) with half of me thinking it will track all border crossings (including EU passports) more effectively so I will not have to prove I was travelling with my spouse. The other half of me thinks, they will be tracking me independently of her, so could end up messy at every crossing! I guess only time will tell!

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[Orion]

It would simplify it if you weren't stamped when travelling together and only stamped if alone.

Simple solutions are never introduced though, are they

In an ideal world……..!

But I kind of understand why it wouldn’t be practical. Border officials and their equipment are geared up to deal with internationally standardised documents - passports, identity and residency cards. If they are then having to stop and decipher a myriad range of marriage or civil partnership certificates, in different languages and formats, can you imagine the snarl ups it would cause?

I guess we’ll just have to suck it up .

 

[Bolti]

Retain evidence of previous travel together? Copies of ferry bookings showing both of you would probably do it. I’m already compiling a file of our joint travels - just in case. I’m fully expecting to be pulled to one side for questioning once the centralised electronic systems come into operation as there doesn’t appear to be a mechanism to allow for it.

Do you show your marriage certificate when travelling with your wife?
If you did they would/should not stamp your passport, so there would be no problems when travelling alone.
The only time my passport has been stamped when travelling with my spouse is when I forgot my marriage certificate.

 

[Orion]

Do you show your marriage certificate when travelling with your wife?
If you did they would/should not stamp your passport, so there would be no problems when travelling alone.
The only time my passport has been stamped when travelling with my spouse is when I forgot my marriage certificate.

Yes, I’ve produced it on four occasions and my passport was stamped irrespective of it - which is what I believe should be the process as I don’t have an EU State Residency Card. Maybe you’ve been lucky, but I can’t find anything in the EU Directive or the practical Handbook For Border Guards that indicates that, in our circumstances, we shouldn’t expect our passports to be stamped - as per Article 5.S3 I posted above.

I’m not being argumentative for the sake of it but can anyone point me to anything in the legislation or Handbook that indicates otherwise? Perhaps the Op’s friend could ask the French at his appointment with them to get the stamp?

 

[Orion]

For those interested (or keen not to get a pull by the Border Officials! ) here’s a link to the EU Handbook For Border Guards.

Section 6, starting on page 73, is the relevant one with regard to the stamping of travel documents, and S6.2 gives the very specific circumstances where no entry/exit stamp is applied. It mirrors Article 5 of the EU Directive with regard to us non-EU spouses/partners:

“The travel document of family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens who are third country nationals must also be stamped, unless they present a residence card issued in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC.”

As I’ve said before, I can find no derogation that would make that requirement invalid or not applicable for U.K. spouses/partners of EU State citizens - but if you know otherwise please chip in.

In the absence of anything to the contrary maybe ensure you get stamped at least on entry or you may have to explain why S6.3 doesn’t apply - if you have a eagled eyed official, or once it goes electronic!

“If, at exit, it appears that the travel document of a third-country national does not bear an entry stamp, the border guard may presume that the holder has entered illegally the area without internal borders or the territory of a Schengen State not yet fully applying the acquis and/or has exceeded the maximum duration of stay. If so, a penalty provided by national law may be imposed.”