Total newbie considering full-timing

[Andy-the-Bruce]

Hi all,

I've just joined the site on the recommendation of somebody on a motoring forum I frequent. I've decided (along with my other half) that I'm going to leave the UK later this year and I'm actually now in the process of selling up my business and getting rid of any unnecessary junk in the house.

I don't currently own a motorhome and when I do get round to buying one, I'm probably only going to have a budget of £15k (although I've got an offer of some short-term work in the Middle East so I may do that to add to the budget and delay the trip a bit). My plan is to buy a left hand-drive camper van in the UK (probably something Ducato or Transit based and 6+ berth) and travel down to Italy then see where life takes us. I have friends in France and Spain who I'd like to visit and I'd also like to spend time in Germany and the Netherlands as well. Eventually, I'd like to get an apartment in Rome but right now I just want to do something where I don't have much responsibility, I don't have to plan things out and my life isn't all about dealing with other people's problems.

I'm hoping for some general advice but I do have loads of questions too.

I'm particularly concerned about where we can park the camper for the night without getting in bother as I don't want to be constantly hopping from campsite to campsite (I think staying at a campsite twice a week will be sufficient).

I hope that's enough to get the ball rolling and I look forward to getting this adventure on the road.

 

[airwave]

Hi there Andy , and

Oh man have you got a steep learning curve , my friend , it's almost vertical .

I gotta be honest and say the middle east may not be such a bad idea my friend . If i was to give any advice it would be not to rush in with both feet , the fact is any advice given today may not be valid next year , due to upcoming event's . The fact of the matter , is no one is totally sure what will happen , present limit's and law's may stay as they are , but they may also change , blowing any advice outta the water , and there are many area's your gonna be dealing with .

I'm not trying to put you off , it can be done , in fact many have , however your not the first to ask these kind's of question's , and a few have not liked the answer's they have received .

What i would advise is study the different area's of this forum , and read the thread's , that will give you grounding in the advice your get . Personally i joined a year before i spent any money , reading the different thread's enabled me to understand different aspect's of motorhoming , before i even posted my first question , and i built from there .

You don't mention your time scale or whether you plan on staying grounded in the uk , or planning on moving permanently abroad , advice will be different , and it may also be helpful to mention how many people are involved . Most problem's can be overcome , but not in a general question as you have made it .

So the advice i would give at this time ;

1. Don't rush in , I would nip over to the middle east ,
2. Study the forum's thread's , there are many on varied subject's ,
3. Become a full member , as a newbee your only allowed 5 post's ( and you've already used 1) .

 

[Riverbankannie]

Good advice from @airwave .
My first thought was also that you should take up the offer of Middle East work if it suits you. A bigger budget would certainly help. You don’t want to be full timing in a MH that lets you down.
If you pay the £15 pounds to become a full member you can search for the many threads on this subject and also download for free, a guide to buying a MH.

There are also lots of threads on where to stay for night on aires (places that are designated MH parking but not campsites) and wildcamping in most European countries.

 

[Andy-the-Bruce]

Thanks for your responses. I completely understand the reservations but I've lived a comfortable life all of my 30 years and I really do want/need something different. We've been thinking about this for quite some time as well. I do appreciate when people tell things like they are though. I have been on many caravan and camping holidays in the past and so I'm not a complete newbie I suppose but I have always had a house to come back to.

My plans are to move abroad permanently but to eventually get a house or apartment.

I will be reading these forums with interest over the next couple of months at least, thanks.

 

[Four of us]

If you have no ties and it's something you want to do, go for it! Especially if you have skills which allow you to re-enter the jobs market as and when required. It would be useful to have a decent contingency fund in case of breakdowns or other emergencies so that's worth bearing in mind. We've found that travelling in a motorhome throughout continental Europe is easy compared to Britain and its fairly easy to find overnight parking spots away from main tourist spots ... park 4 night and campercontact are both good.

When looking at vans consider the size you need and look at as many models as possible. Layout is vital and so much is down to personal preferences. There have been some nice older models advertised on this site in the classified section so maybe start there to see what you get for different budgets.

Good luck

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[Andy-the-Bruce]

Thanks. On the subject of vehicle repairs, I'm considering buying the stuff I'll need like tyres, brake discs, pads, service kits, etc. here and doing them myself (where possible) when they need done. I'm in the parts industry and if I go for something Ducato based then I actually have the Fiat parts system on disc to look up the specific part numbers of literally every part on the thing which will make life a lot easier.

 

[EX51SSS]

 

[Nasher]

Welcome, some good advice already given, can I just ask why 6+ berth?

That's going to be a big van, do you have the C1 license?

Also over 3500kg = increased tolls in some countries............

I'm sure there is loads of other things to consider, many of which can be found on this site

Good luck with your plan & keep us up to date

 

[airwave]

I have been on many caravan and camping holidays in the past and so I'm not a complete newbie

I really must advise you to consider joining now my friend , your now only have two post's left .

Now we are also starting to get there , in what kind of time frame are you looking at for moving abroad , and do you plan on continuing to motorhome once you have moved abroad or move on to something else . I've also noted you mention wife , i gather it's just the two of you , or are there any kid's involved .

Being handy with your hand's will be very useful in preparing the van , though to be honest for the extra cost involved , i wouldn't consider the grief of fitting tyre's to a rim . Though some will disagree , a ducato is a good choice . Now don't get me wrong the other two are good motor's , i learned to drive in a mk1 transit , but they have a reputation for being easier to steal , equally merk's are solid reliable motor's too , but it come it come's at a price , just as a matter of interest are you looking at A class or what i call cab over .

 

[tonka]

@Nasher has beat me to it..
First consideration. License, bigger van, carry spares its all weight.. If you dont have C1 on your driving license then your limited to a van of 3500kg and most have a low payload and hence will limit what you can carry.
Great dream and it's all possible but plan as much as you can, at least you now have the internet to get all the answers we older folk could not get at the scroll of a screen.

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[Andy-the-Bruce]

I'll try and answer everything briefly below:

6+ berth because I would like a bit more space and would like some storage too.

I just have a post-1997 regular car licence so max is 3.5t. I'm willing to get a 7.5t licence if need be. Which countries might have a few toll roads? France would be one I would presume.

I'm looking to get this camper by this July at earliest or February 2019 at absolute latest. I'm planning to have everything sold or chucked by the end of June but I have some wee jobs that can fill in the time if I need more time to decide on things.

I'd like to motorhome for a bit before settling down somewhere, possibly a year or two but we could motorhome for a few months then get an apartment for 6 months then go motorhoming again. I really want the freedom to live day by day so I'm being deliberately vague with my plans.

just me and my OH, no kids (that I know of! ho ho ho)

I'd get the tyres fitted somewhere but I always use the best of gear on my vehicles so it would be just in case I couldn't get premium tyres at a reasonable price in some places on the continent. I'll probably just get Oponeo to deliver them when needed to be honest. Other parts like brake discs would be taken along because I can get them at trade price right now.

I drove my mum's Transit on L plates and have driven many vans in my time too. My favourites are the Crafter and Sprinter but I doubt I'll find a camper based on them at an agreeable budget. Likewise, I'd prefer a RWD but at first glance, most of the market is FWD.

 

[Gromett]

As a fulltimer with 9 years on the road I can say the biggest thing is...

It suites some people who will swear by it..
It is an absolute disaster for others who will tell you to steer clear.

It is one of those things that comes down to the individual. Unless you either have money or are very practical the first major problem will kill the dream. I have seen it happen a few times before.

I was only intending to do it for 2 years and tour Europe. 9 years on and I can't imagine living life in a brick prison ever again really.

Ask away all your questions and there are lots of us on here who will be happy to answer them

On the Middle east thing. If you can earn some fast cash, take the opportunity.
If you can earn on the road then you are set...

Good luck if you do it.

 

[Gromett]

If you are practical, why not a self build? You will get more for your money and you can choose your base vehicle...

For fulltiming a C1 license would help especially if you are going to be lugging around a load of heavy vehicle spare parts

 

[maz]

Hi Andy and welcome to the Fun. I fulltimed happily for over 6 years - and am still fulltiming but now on a boat.

I wouldn’t get too hung up about a 6-Berth van as there are only two of you. Maybe take a look at older Hobby 750s. They were pretty well built and should come in around your budget. For fulltiming payload is all important, as well as a layout that works for you. Try to visit a few dealers or motorhome shows and play around in some vans, imagining how each layout would work for you.

Good luck with your adventure!

 

[Andy-the-Bruce]

Hi Andy and welcome to the Fun. I fulltimed happily for over 6 years - and am still fulltiming but now on a boat.

I wouldn’t get too hung up about a 6-Berth van as there are only two of you. Maybe take a look at older Hobby 750s. They were pretty well built and should come in around your budget. For fulltiming payload is all important, as well as a layout that works for you. Try to visit a few dealers or motorhome shows and play around in some vans, imagining how each layout would work for you.

Good luck with your adventure!

I'd love a hobby 750. I see there's one at a shade under £17k on eBay and it's LHD. They'll be expensive to fix when they go wrong I'd wager. That's maybe just a bit big and that's not even considering that I'll need to upgrade my licence. Can't imagine the fuel economy is good either.

I think you guys are right, a decent sized 4 berth is what I'm after. I'm not too worried about the number of beds but having a longer wheelbase is a big bonus over a short wheelbase camper for me.

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[Andy-the-Bruce]

Also, I do know somebody with a caravan sales site. I'll hopefully be speaking with him next week with the view to arranging a tour.

 

[airwave]

Okay , i'm not sure a 6 berth is a good idea either . Yes it has a lot of space , but for just the two of you , do you really need it , it's far more likely your end up carrying stuff that never get's used . It's this stuff that will cost you weight hence range . A larger van will be difficult to park when visiting place's , or even people , and though i can't say for sure , overnight parking may also prove difficult , i'm sure someone else will be able to clarify that one . Payload is an on going issue with every motorhome built , i run a 3.5 ton , 6m , A class , and operate under weight with ease , however i recently uprated to 3.7 , to allow me to carry a motorcycle , the indication's are i will gross out at just over 3.5 . A 6 berth would seriously struggle to stay under 3.5 empty , let alone with your can of baked bean's , so your need a heavier c1 , licence , and increase your up weight .
One more thing you should consider is the base van itself , pretty much all base vehicle's you will come across will be ducato based . Peugeot and renault , are basically ducato's built under licence , what's called badged engineering , the only exception to this is mercedes , incidentally the only rwd option you will find .
You say your looking at spending around 15k , meaning your looking at a 15-20 year old van , basically that's a series 2 ducato , engine size 2.5- 2.8 litre , producing at best 127 bhp . Not a good power to weight ratio for a 3.5 ton van , let alone any more . Fine on the flat , but gear jamming on any kind of hill . Put too much weight on , and you could be changing down to run over a cat's eye . All over france you will come across lez zone's , these are pollution control area's similar to london , now i'm not gonna go into this deeply , but your gonna need a badge on your windshield to enter these , with a series 2 motor the best you can hope for is a class 4 , but realistically it will be a 5 .
Now you may think , i've only considered a ducato , but i've done that for a reason . That reason is your future plans to move abroad , i'm not that hot on this subject , but as i understand it , after a short period of time 6-9 months , of moving you will need to register yourself in that country , as such you will become a foreign national and quickly run into problem's with insurance on a british registered van . However you will also need to register the van in that new country , that mean's mot or that country's equivalent , the task is far from easy , but as i understand it easier with a vehicle that originated from the continent . once done though you have a useable motorhome .

So what would i recommend , well based on the two of you , ultimmately moving abroad with 15 k to spend ;

I would say a foreign make , hymer , burstner , niesmann , etc , lhd , 2.8 . I would also take a look at A class van's around 6m , i think your be surprised at the space (i was) . For your sanity , and engine i would stick close to 3.5ton , but no more than 3850 (unless you can source a jtd , which could be rechipped to 147bhp) . 3 or 4 berth .


What you other guy's think ? .

 

[gus-lopez]

 

[PP Bear]

 

[f6c]

Welcome aboard

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[nicholsong]

Andy

Welcome.

I am pleased that you said you do not really need 6 berths, as they are usually laid out with dinettes with upright seats and would most certainly have been over 3.5t with a decent payload.

Do you actually need 4 berths? Maybe for guests, but if not then start looking at low-profiles because you are morelikely to get a decent payload under3.5t.

However if you intend wintering in any cold climes you need a double-floor space for the tanks which is heated, which means heavier MH.

If you are hanging around in UK for a while, and you say you would do the C1 test, I suggest you go that route soon - then the choice of MHs with a decent payload will open up before you, even if it is an older, but good quality, one to suit your budget.

You have got to decide where the MH will be registered and how you will have an address to support registration/driving licence/insurance etc. It can be done in the UK while travelling by using a relative or friend's address, but other countries may be more difficult as you may have to register as resident, which makes insurance for the MH more difficult and personal tax. Although I am not in the MH full-time I have kept everything in UK, but have to drive back for MOT.

You talk about selling up, but I do not think you said whether you own a house. if you do , my strong advice is do not sell - rent it out, for the reasons that you might want to return and also it gives you income(even if you have a mortgage the interest is deductible against tax, and the tenant pays Council Tax and all utility bills)

Only small point about toll roads - you will be full-timing, so do not need to go long distances or quickly, so just forget them and go the 'pretty' route. In 9 years we have only used the cheap one here in Poland to get to Germany (£3.50) then it is free to Dunkirk. Never in France, Spain, Slowakia - not necessary.

Hope this helps.

Geoff

 

[Andy-the-Bruce]

Okay , i'm not sure a 6 berth is a good idea either . Yes it has a lot of space , but for just the two of you , do you really need it , it's far more likely your end up carrying stuff that never get's used . It's this stuff that will cost you weight hence range . A larger van will be difficult to park when visiting place's , or even people , and though i can't say for sure , overnight parking may also prove difficult , i'm sure someone else will be able to clarify that one . Payload is an on going issue with every motorhome built , i run a 3.5 ton , 6m , A class , and operate under weight with ease , however i recently uprated to 3.7 , to allow me to carry a motorcycle , the indication's are i will gross out at just over 3.5 . A 6 berth would seriously struggle to stay under 3.5 empty , let alone with your can of baked bean's , so your need a heavier c1 , licence , and increase your up weight .
One more thing you should consider is the base van itself , pretty much all base vehicle's you will come across will be ducato based . Peugeot and renault , are basically ducato's built under licence , what's called badged engineering , the only exception to this is mercedes , incidentally the only rwd option you will find .
You say your looking at spending around 15k , meaning your looking at a 15-20 year old van , basically that's a series 2 ducato , engine size 2.5- 2.8 litre , producing at best 127 bhp . Not a good power to weight ratio for a 3.5 ton van , let alone any more . Fine on the flat , but gear jamming on any kind of hill . Put too much weight on , and you could be changing down to run over a cat's eye . All over france you will come across lez zone's , these are pollution control area's similar to london , now i'm not gonna go into this deeply , but your gonna need a badge on your windshield to enter these , with a series 2 motor the best you can hope for is a class 4 , but realistically it will be a 5 .
Now you may think , i've only considered a ducato , but i've done that for a reason . That reason is your future plans to move abroad , i'm not that hot on this subject , but as i understand it , after a short period of time 6-9 months , of moving you will need to register yourself in that country , as such you will become a foreign national and quickly run into problem's with insurance on a british registered van . However you will also need to register the van in that new country , that mean's mot or that country's equivalent , the task is far from easy , but as i understand it easier with a vehicle that originated from the continent . once done though you have a useable motorhome .

So what would i recommend , well based on the two of you , ultimmately moving abroad with 15 k to spend ;

I would say a foreign make , hymer , burstner , niesmann , etc , lhd , 2.8 . I would also take a look at A class van's around 6m , i think your be surprised at the space (i was) . For your sanity , and engine i would stick close to 3.5ton , but no more than 3850 (unless you can source a jtd , which could be rechipped to 147bhp) . 3 or 4 berth .


What you other guy's think ? .

A lot of good points there.

I don't intend to apply for nationality right away, I'm just looking to get my 'codice fiscale' in Italy so I have a social security type code that will allow me to work and rent a place when I want to do that. It is something I need to look into further but I'm hoping I won't need to register the van in another country unless there's a benefit to it.

I'm quite well versed on the vans as I'm in the motor trade and a bit of a petrolhead. The Mk2 & 3 Ducatos are actually different to the Mk1 & 2 Relays and Boxers in some ways but not really enough to make a difference to most buying decisions.

What is an 'A class van'?

 

[Andy-the-Bruce]

Andy

Welcome.

I am pleased that you said you do not really need 6 berths, as they are usually laid out with dinettes with upright seats and would most certainly have been over 3.5t with a decent payload.

Do you actually need 4 berths? Maybe for guests, but if not then start looking at low-profiles because you are morelikely to get a decent payload under3.5t.

However if you intend wintering in any cold climes you need a double-floor space for the tanks which is heated, which means heavier MH.

If you are hanging around in UK for a while, and you say you would do the C1 test, I suggest you go that route soon - then the choice of MHs with a decent payload will open up before you, even if it is an older, but good quality, one to suit your budget.

You have got to decide where the MH will be registered and how you will have an address to support registration/driving licence/insurance etc. It can be done in the UK while travelling by using a relative or friend's address, but other countries may be more difficult as you may have to register as resident, which makes insurance for the MH more difficult and personal tax. Although I am not in the MH full-time I have kept everything in UK, but have to drive back for MOT.

You talk about selling up, but I do not think you said whether you own a house. if you do , my strong advice is do not sell - rent it out, for the reasons that you might want to return and also it gives you income(even if you have a mortgage the interest is deductible against tax, and the tenant pays Council Tax and all utility bills)

Only small point about toll roads - you will be full-timing, so do not need to go long distances or quickly, so just forget them and go the 'pretty' route. In 9 years we have only used the cheap one here in Poland to get to Germany (£3.50) then it is free to Dunkirk. Never in France, Spain, Slowakia - not necessary.

Hope this helps.

Geoff

The house I'm in is rented but I do have property in the UK. Getting an address to use really isn't an issue at all as I've got my bases covered there in at least a few ways.

I'm thinking right now that it would be a good idea to keep under 3.5t so I'm going to concentrate on MH's that aren't over that.

 

[maz]

What is an 'A class van'?

A-class vans are built from the chassis up instead of adding the hab area on behind a van cab. A-class vans have panoramic windscreens and usually a drop down bed over the cab. Eg Burstner Elegance 821 is an A-Class, Hobby 750 is a coachbuilt.

 

[maz]

[QUOTE="Andy-the-Bruce, post: 2808130, member: 53414]

I'm thinking right now that it would be a good idea to keep under 3.5t so I'm going to concentrate on MH's that aren't over that.[/QUOTE]

That will certainly save you having to take the C1 test but just be aware of payload limitations. I would certainly recommend taking any van you become seriously interested in to a weighbridge.

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[Andy-the-Bruce]

A-class vans are built from the chassis up instead of adding the hab area on behind a van cab. A-class vans have panoramic windscreens and usually a drop down bed over the cab. Eg Burstner Elegance 821 is an A-Class, Hobby 750 is a coachbuilt.

understood. I've already stuck a pin in the weighbridge idea so will sort that out when I get the MH. I'm sure somebody I'm on friendly terms with will have one but is it the sort of thing large commercial vehicle testers will have at their premises?

 

[maz]

understood. I've already stuck a pin in the weighbridge idea so will sort that out when I get the MH. I'm sure somebody I'm on friendly terms with will have one but is it the sort of thing large commercial vehicle testers will have at their premises?

Public weighbridges are usually at places like quarries and agricultural merchants. Also scrap merchants but you could be putting your tyres at risk there. The DVSA also have some. Try googling public weighbridges in your area.

Would strongly suggest taking any prospective motorhome to a weighbridge before you buy it rather than after. Make it a condition of sale. Payload is a minefield area and any figures provided have to be treated very cautiously.

 

[Andy-the-Bruce]

Would strongly suggest taking any prospective motorhome to a weighbridge before you buy it rather than after. Make it a condition of sale. Payload is a minefield area and any figures provided have to be treated very cautiously.

That's a good idea. So if I get it to the weigh bridge unladen, how much would I want a 3.5t gross weight MH to weigh in at roughly?

 

[maz]

That's a good idea. So if I get it to the weigh bridge unladen, how much would I want a 3.5t gross weight MH to weigh in at roughly?

In a nutshell, as little as possible. I know that’s not particularly helpful but you need to have some idea of what you want to add to the van to be able to live in and use it comfortably. For example, I always want to be able to carry a full tank of water, whereas others might be happy to drive with an empty water tank and fill up on arrival at a site. Do you want solar panels? A large battery bank? How much in the way of food supplies and clothing do you want to carry? Some people are minimalist, others want all their home comforts. I remember you mentioned wanting to carry lots of spares - how much would they weigh?

For myself, there was no way I would have considered fulltiming in a 3.5 tonne van. But that’s just me. I like to be self-sufficient as much as possible rather than tied to campsites, so I had 330Ah of batteries, 270W of solar, a 1kW inverter, a 1kW generator, 2 x 11kg Gaslow bottles. As
I’d sold my place I also had all my clothes (summer and winter), a reasonable amount of cooking equipment and a tragic number of board games as I’m that kind of a geek. I like my comforts within reason and I also have a dog and her associated food and equipment. Hence I ended up with a 5 tonne van with a payload of just over 1 tonne. But everyone is different ........

 

[Andy-the-Bruce]

I'll have to cross that (weigh)bridge when I come to it I guess but a tonne of storage would seem a reasonable maximum.

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