The end of smart motorways....

[jongood]

Why not, works fine in Germany and the outer lane is free flowing!! What’s not to like?

Logical minds would recognise the need to get our goods to market and we can cater to the Greens desire for us all to make less journeys by car by setting a density limit for major roads prioritise commercial vehicles and public transport and let cars and motorhomes take up whatever capacity is surplus?

Or we could just build a few more roads?

Should we have a poll?

 

[2x2camper]

I would agree with that, but as long as public transport is as expensive and unreliable as it is, things are not going to improve.

I read recently that London Transport is the most expensive in the world per capita..

Then let's invest in public transport

 

[2x2camper]

Nice ideology. But how do you see it working in practice?

Err use cars less, use public transport, cycle or even walk. Or maybe we really don't have to make the journey

 

[LesW]

Then let's invest in public transport

You'd think.. unfortunately the powers that be are not interested in investing money, just collecting taxes.

See my post above about my local bus service.

 

[WESTY66]

Err use cars less, use public transport, cycle or even walk. Or maybe we really don't have to make the journey

I don’t know what planet you’re on but it wouldn’t work for me, no public transport at 5 am and would you seriously at 53 years of age expect me to cycle 8 miles each way to work. The car is convenient and time saving you ain’t gonna get people out of em!
Oh on rural country unlit narrow country lanes where incidentally no bus’s even run there.

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[jongood]

Err use cars less, use public transport, cycle or even walk. Or maybe we really don't have to make the journey

Yes but it has to be viable for people who work as well. I've no idea where you re from but public transport in Shropshire is 90% useless, many of our villages don't even get 1 bus per day.

 

[2x2camper]

As I have already said we need to invest in public transport. Unless we do we won't get out of our cars. Just winging about the all the problems won't solve it.

It's needs a positive attitude to the problem not just saying what the problems are. On here all I here are the negatives because as has been said above getting in your car is just too convenient

 

[WESTY66]

As I have already said we need to invest in public transport. Unless we do we won't get out of our cars. Just winging about the all the problems won't solve it.

It's needs a positive attitude to the problem not just saying what the problems are. On here all I here are the negatives because as has been said above getting in your car is just too convenient

Ain’t gonna happen, they hardly invest in the infrastructure they already have, they ain’t gonna do more and even if they did it’d be 20odd years down the line.
I trust public transport serves you well in getting to work and back? We are not so lucky.

 

[2x2camper]

Ain’t gonna happen, they hardly invest in the infrastructure they already have, they ain’t gonna do more and even if they did it’d be 20odd years down the line.
I trust public transport serves you well in getting to work and back? We are not so lucky.

But the point is it takes more than politicians to change things. We all need to be pushing for changes to transport policy. They won't change unless we make them.

As to my commute it's 30 miles each way by car, wish it wasn't. Much preferred it when I worked only 3 miles from home.

 

[jongood]

But the point is it takes more than politicians to change things. We all need to be pushing for changes to transport policy. They won't change unless we make them.

As to my commute it's 30 miles each way by car, wish it wasn't. Much preferred it when I worked only 3 miles from home.

I would guess most commuters here also go by car because there is no viable public transport option.

I'm with WESTY66 that I don't see an investment in public transport any time soon.

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[haganap]

haganap the only small fly in your ointment would be a car that has broken down has lost drive or power and is coasting towards the hard shoulder, and he makes it to the hard shoulder which is now a live lane with 44 tonners barrelling towards his back end, they can’t get out into lane two (which used to be lane one) cos the traffic is bad and bang, the result, is catastrophic. At least in the old days the hard shoulder was free of traffic enabling the stricken vehicle coasting into it and the occupants getting out of the vehicle without being rammed from behind, because it seems that’s when the accidents occur, BEFORE any overhead gantry signs are changed to red.
But I do take the point there is no hard shoulders on most dual carriageways?‍

Sometimes you have to accept that an opinion that differs to others can never be rammed down someones throat and accept people have different views.

but, just to bring you to task and reconsider on a couple of things.
By your definition you rightly state, there are no hard shoulders on many dual carriageways. Some of these are even busier than the motorways of yesteryear.

By your definition, I can not break down in lane 2 3 or 4. You can break down on any lane at any time which is why I advocate "smart motorways". Read how they work I actively encourage that and if you do and understand the science of it, you may agree as to why I would much rather be travelling on one than a dual carriageway.

The motorway remains the safest place to travel on our roads even on Smart motorways.

where I do agree with you is those bloody lorries that pull in to lane 2 to travel 3 miles to try and overtake and achieve a whole 1.7 mph faster than what they were travelling before. I would definitely have no overtaking lorry ZONES as they do abroad. Never more so in the roadworks where with narrow lanes they get so close. Oddly enough the biggest danger of smart motorways appears to be in the actual construction of them because of the above.

Me? I will continue to drive my Audi r6 up and down the motorway at a speed I can get away with in a lane that best suits my needs. Watching for them now frequent cameras that have slowed me right down, observing the new "up to date rules" whereby overtaking on the left as you say is practically a given nowadays anyway. And just to finish on that, did you know that research shows that common undertaking increases the awareness of the road user.

And in a Trevor Mcdonald finally moment.
Anyone who thinks that Smart motorways is a massive problem clearly underestimates the "internet/phone/whats app/text/you tube/ smart phone driver who has the ability to answer emails and surf the internet whilst driving.

 

[WESTY66]

Sometimes you have to accept that an opinion that differs to others can never be rammed down someones throat and accept people have different views.

but, just to bring you to task and reconsider on a couple of things.
By your definition you rightly state, there are no hard shoulders on many dual carriageways. Some of these are even busier than the motorways of yesteryear.

By your definition, I can not break down in lane 2 3 or 4. You can break down on any lane at any time which is why I advocate "smart motorways". Read how they work I actively encourage that and if you do and understand the science of it, you may agree as to why I would much rather be travelling on one than a dual carriageway.

The motorway remains the safest place to travel on our roads even on Smart motorways.

where I do agree with you is those bloody lorries that pull in to lane 2 to travel 3 miles to try and overtake and achieve a whole 1.7 mph faster than what they were travelling before. I would definitely have no overtaking lorry ZONES as they do abroad. Never more so in the roadworks where with narrow lanes they get so close. Oddly enough the biggest danger of smart motorways appears to be in the actual construction of them because of the above.

Me? I will continue to drive my Audi r6 up and down the motorway at a speed I can get away with in a lane that best suits my needs. Watching for them now frequent cameras that have slowed me right down, observing the new "up to date rules" whereby overtaking on the left as you say is practically a given nowadays anyway. And just to finish on that, did you know that research shows that common undertaking increases the awareness of the road user.

And in a Trevor Mcdonald finally moment.
Anyone who thinks that Smart motorways is a massive problem clearly underestimates the "internet/phone/whats app/text/you tube/ smart phone driver who has the ability to answer emails and surf the internet whilst driving.

I don’t disagree with most of your post or indeed the ideas behind the smart motorway idea as a whole, my beef with them is in the first 60 seconds (before the red crosses come up on the gantry) if someone trying to pull up with nowhere to go if you have a flat tyre or steam coming out the bonnet! You want to stop, your instincts tell you the cars broke, but you are surrounded by traffic behind you, at the side of you. It may do the car more damage trying to keep going to a refuge??
Smart motorways work great WHILST ALL LANES ARE MOVING with no obstructions. They have them over in Germany too and seem very good. I think we could learn a lot from the continent (not driving on the right though??)
One thing that does puzzle me over in the USSER is after all the years they have been colluding together over harmonising things is why don’t they harmonise all things road and traffic related?

 

[SpeedyDux]

I would definitely have no overtaking lorry ZONES as they do abroad.

There is a long stretch of the A42 dual carriageway linking the M42 to M1 with signage that prohibits overtaking for HGVs. There may be other examples in the UK.

Whenever I used to drive along that busy stretch of A42 to visit the company HQ, inevitably several HGVs ignored the overtaking ban and jammed up lane 2 for miles. Lack of fear of enforcement prevailed. As usual.

Personally I don't like using smart motorways. I frequently use the M4/M5 Almondsbury interchange where there is a Smart section. There aren't enough refuges, and they are too far apart. A small number of drivers ignore the red "X" when the hard shoulder is not in use as a running lane. Do they even understand what that means? If there is a perception that you can get away with it then other idiots will follow.

The Smart section feels safest either when traffic is very light, or in the opposite situation when all lanes are queuing and stop-start. In between, it gets chaotic and feels more hazardous. Lane discipline is poor, as is use of indicators, which in turn means the more running lanes you have open the greater the risks. Undertaking and cutting across 2 or more lanes at the last moment must be very common because I have seen a lot of it. I suspect that is why crashes around junction 19 for the M32 exit and on the M5 southbound are on the local traffic news almost every day.

The better solution should be motorway widening to increase peak capacity, and keeping the hard shoulder clear for emergency use. It's a question of spending priorities. That, and better driver education because this isn't a Playstation game with a reset button and there is no high score for driving like you stole it.

 

[busby]

If you build more roads we will just get more vehicles. That's how we have got to where we are now.

Let's face it though this is a motorists forum most people on here can't get their head round other ways to get around.

Shanks Pony..Only use our car once a week max.
Walk everyday..BUSBY.

 

[robnchris]

Do you'd like a massive queue of wagons in Lane one?

The easy answer is to get rid of the big trucks and put freight back on the railways.

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[jongood]

The easy answer is to get rid of the big trucks and put freight back on the railways.

That one always makes me laugh - well just before we all starve!

Even the post office stopped using rail it was so bad.

 

[robnchris]

That one always makes me laugh - well just before we all starve!

Even the post office stopped using rail it was so bad.

So the answer to relieve our over crowded roads is to move not only freight on to the railways but also passengers, other countries manage to do it why is Britain incapable of such an undertaking?

 

[EX51SSS]

The easy answer is to get rid of the big trucks and put freight back on the railways.

The railways could not cope with the amount of freight. Incidentally, most containers are delivered by rail to the container terminals then forwarded to the customers via wagon. Until the railways can get to every town village etc, the road is king

 

[jongood]

So the answer to relieve our over crowded roads is to move not only freight on to the railways but also passengers, other countries manage to do it why is Britain incapable of such an undertaking?

lack of infrastructure and the NUR

Anecdotally the going rate for a train driver is £60K+

 

[WESTY66]

lack of infrastructure and the NUR

Anecdotally the going rate for a train driver is £60K+

And the going rate for a truck driver (at our works) is around £45k hauling 1/60th of the freight of the train driver. We need more money spending on roads and railways!

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[robnchris]

lack of infrastructure and the NUR

Anecdotally the going rate for a train driver is £60K+

We don't live very far from each other so there is a dam good chance we drive along the same roads, just look at the A5, A483, A49, M6 despite the toll road around Birmingham which trucks seldom use why isn't there the drive to put freight back on the railways.
Our over congested roads, road traffic accident deaths which lets face it are no small number when a couple of 42 ton trucks are involved, damage to roads caused by these huge vehicles plus the environment which is currently the drum to beat.
Surely the way forward is the railways and yet the drive and skills to accomplish the benefits of this doesn't appear to be at hand.

 

[haganap]

There is a long stretch of the A42 dual carriageway linking the M42 to M1 with signage that prohibits overtaking for HGVs. There may be other examples in the UK.

Whenever I used to drive along that busy stretch of A42 to visit the company HQ, inevitably several HGVs ignored the overtaking ban and jammed up lane 2 for miles. Lack of fear of enforcement prevailed. As usual.

Personally I don't like using smart motorways. I frequently use the M4/M5 Almondsbury interchange where there is a Smart section. There aren't enough refuges, and they are too far apart. A small number of drivers ignore the red "X" when the hard shoulder is not in use as a running lane. Do they even understand what that means? If there is a perception that you can get away with it then other idiots will follow.

The Smart section feels safest either when traffic is very light, or in the opposite situation when all lanes are queuing and stop-start. In between, it gets chaotic and feels more hazardous. Lane discipline is poor, as is use of indicators, which in turn means the more running lanes you have open the greater the risks. Undertaking and cutting across 2 or more lanes at the last moment must be very common because I have seen a lot of it. I suspect that is why crashes around junction 19 for the M32 exit and on the M5 southbound are on the local traffic news almost every day.

The better solution should be motorway widening to increase peak capacity, and keeping the hard shoulder clear for emergency use. It's a question of spending priorities. That, and better driver education because this isn't a Playstation game with a reset button and there is no high score for driving like you stole it.

on the contrary that is when they are at their most dangerous. Fast moving traffic, when someone has broken down and not reacting to the miliseconds that it takes for the gantry to be activated by the "smart Motorway" not the fat controller. When traffic is moving slower generally people have more time to react, (from my experience and trust me me and slow moving traffic go together like JD and Coke.)

I can honestly say and I am of course being pedantic here. But I can not recall the last time I saw a car broken down with a steaming engine. probably back in the 90s. I reckon, it's mainly car punctures these days that represents the majority of breakdowns, oh and Fiats of course.

As for the red cross drivers, if they don't know they soon will as past 1 gantry with the cross on and there is 3 points coming your way.