The end of smart motorways....

[MR. FUSION]

Motorways without hard shoulders are better at keeping things moving. But being semi-conscious, while you bleed out after an accident and that siren coming for you doesn't seem to be getting any closer; must be a bummer.

I saw that on the M6 last year, emergency vehicles stuck in solid traffic on the smart motorway, and out of commission for hours.

 

[Shrimp]

Worrying that when the hard shoulder is being used as a ‘running’ lane there is nowhere to stop if
broken-down also how do emergency services get thru if all lanes are on stop because of an accident?!!

 

[MR. FUSION]

Go to Germany and most drivers use the lanes as they should.

Indeed, a Beemer coming into your rear at 130+ mph is likely to be uncomfortable........

 

[busby]

Worrying that when the hard shoulder is being used as a ‘running’ lane there is nowhere to stop if
broken-down also how do emergency services get thru if all lanes are on stop because of an accident?!!

Exactly,,all our Government think of is cost not safety.BUSBY.

 

[42208]

Not doubting all the experienced comments above, however, my experience of them has been entirely positive, particularly the fact they keep you moving at a steady pace reducing chance of someone shunting into you. However, I did think they would come under fire as motorists just cannot get their head around how to use them, I often have the inside lane to myself and gently cruise past the other 3 lanes. I also like the fact that the lanes are monitored 100% of the time and incidents quickly dealt with

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[romany]

You’ve still misused mrskevenh’s former colleagues deaths by taking a different scenario to fit your point.
And the hard shoulder maybe been closed to add a recovery area that people are forgetting exist on smart motorways.

Its the same point whatever road your on if an inside lane/hard shoulder is closed at todays speeds you are very liable to end up in a multiple pile up especially in a fiat ducato with a habit of dumping people into limp mode for no good reason it is a sad fact mechanical things go wrong that was the whole point of hard shoulders a safer place to stop pullover when something goes wrong or even more important as Jim pointed out allowing rescue vehicles through.

As for misusing a scenario the initial inquiry stated that they believe the closed carriage way had an impact on the resulting accident and it doesn't matter if its a fast dual carriage or motorway the result is the same

 

[tacr2man]

Where these "improvements" to aid flow fail is when they get to the end of them ! If you have too many vehicles trying all to go the same place its not going to work !
I live near J10 of M40 , they built it with full knowledge that five lanes of traffic would be trying to fit on three lanes for a 6 mile stretch , in both directions they then designed a junction that required the north and southbound exit /joining flows to cross each other on a roundabout . Its now on its thiord redesign , and it still all jams up with big tailbacks every rush hour , and often in between as well. 5 into 3 doesnt work very well basic maths . Having Policed on motorways it was the most dangerous part of the job , and that included when the IRA were active here .

 

[Ingwe]

I see the dimwit that thought it was a good Idea has blamed motorists.. ?

I always thought the appropriate name for them should have been "thick as sh*t" motorways. How anyone, at anytime, thought it was a "smart" idea, beats me!

 

[42208]

i don't think they intend to reintroduce the hard shoulder to all motorways, just abandon peak time opening and closing of certain sections of the smart motorway network

 

[buttons]

I don’t like them, but how can a big Red Lane Closed signal be too difficult to understand . It maybe cos everybody totally ignores the gantry signs whether it’s a speed limit or bc a lane closed sign

I think you are in the wrong lane Mr C, are we not discussing the disappearance of the hard shoulder on extremely busy motorways.

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[Khizzie]

To my eyes ,its not road signs ,speed !limits that's the problem ,its purely down to drivers arrogant and selfish attitudes. . There is no lane discipline. This doesn't appear to be the case in France or Germany .where once they have overtaken they pull in

 

[vwalan]

At last, they are a nightmare....

End of dynamic smart motorways: ‘Too complicated', says Highways England boss

Six British motorways have already been converted so hard shoulders are used only at busy times.

news.sky.com

dont have too many smart motorways in cornwall.
dont even have non smart ones . hee hee

 

[Just smiffy]

dont have too many smart motorways in cornwall.
dont even have non smart ones . hee hee

one of the reasons for living here.....??

 

[Vipar]

Must admit my mpg went up at 50mph

 

[vwalan]

one of the reasons for living here.....??

just a quick drive up to plymouth and off on the ferry. hee hee
keep thinking of visiting england a bit more but then decided its nice round here so dont leave cornwall.

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[busby]

Not doubting all the experienced comments above, however, my experience of them has been entirely positive, particularly the fact they keep you moving at a steady pace reducing chance of someone shunting into you. However, I did think they would come under fire as motorists just cannot get their head around how to use them, I often have the inside lane to myself and gently cruise past the other 3 lanes. I also like the fact that the lanes are monitored 100% of the time and incidents quickly dealt with

They are easy to understand and the number one thing to understand is that if you break down and can't get in one of those SOS bays bale out of your vehicle as quick as you can and get the safe side of the barrier.It won't belong before there is a real serious accident.BUSBY.

 

[haganap]

I use them every day.
They have done nothing but enhance my journey.
I spent 3 years travelling between junction 17 19 on the m6 at 50mph with cars coming from all over the world to break down in that set of roadworks.
It's not the motorways that are a problem just the drivers.

Im very fortunate that they created an extra lane where the hard shoulder was just for me and a few other executives. Makes my journey much quicker now.

Just as i have changed direction for work i now get to see cars coming from all over the world to break down between junctions 15 -13 on the M6. I don't worry about it too much as i know in another 30 months my new lane will be built and up and running for me.

Keep them i say, if you can't understand a red cross or a gantry sign giving you an instruction surely you shouldnt be driving?

 

[jongood]

I do agree about the extra lanes but I really don't think Smart Motorways are the way to achieve it. IMO the biggest problem are the barriers which leave you absolutely no alternative other than to stop on the left lane. Its not as bad if you re in a truck but So many times I have seen cars broken down almost clinging to the barriers waiting for the impact.

There was quite a harrowing story on the radio how a womans husband had been involved in a minor collision and stopped ( as required by law) to exchange details, they were apparently stopped for 6 minutes when both parties were killed by a lorry. It came to light that the warning signs hadnt been activated.

here is another example which led to the death of an 8 year old boy.

Hard shoulder warning after death on M6 smart motorway

The hard shoulder was being used as a running lane when Dev Naran was killed in a crash in Birmingham.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jongood]

Of course what we actually need are more roads. A Motorway from cardiff to Chester would take a lot of pressure off M6/M5

 

[romany]

I use them every day.
They have done nothing but enhance my journey.
I spent 3 years travelling between junction 17 19 on the m6 at 50mph with cars coming from all over the world to break down in that set of roadworks.
It's not the motorways that are a problem just the drivers.

Im very fortunate that they created an extra lane where the hard shoulder was just for me and a few other executives. Makes my journey much quicker now.

Just as i have changed direction for work i now get to see cars coming from all over the world to break down between junctions 15 -13 on the M6. I don't worry about it too much as i know in another 30 months my new lane will be built and up and running for me.

Keep them i say, if you can't understand a red cross or a gantry sign giving you an instruction surely you shouldnt be driving?

Perhaps when you are unfortunate to break down and there is no time for red crosses to operate or affect traffic speed and flow you will be praising your enhanced and faster journey into the hereafter and whoever else you've managed to take with you

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[haganap]

I do agree about the extra lanes but I really don't think Smart Motorways are the way to achieve it. IMO the biggest problem are the barriers which leave you absolutely no alternative other than to stop on the left lane. Its not as bad if you re in a truck but So many times I have seen cars broken down almost clinging to the barriers waiting for the impact.

There was quite a harrowing story on the radio how a womans husband had been involved in a minor collision and stopped ( as required by law) to exchange details, they were apparently stopped for 6 minutes when both parties were killed by a lorry. It came to light that the warning signs hadnt been activated.

here is another example which led to the death of an 8 year old boy.

Hard shoulder warning after death on M6 smart motorway

The hard shoulder was being used as a running lane when Dev Naran was killed in a crash in Birmingham.

www.bbc.co.uk

I also saw this story and could not believe that someone would stop on a motorway to exchange details whilst the motorway was live.
Refuge areas are place at the maximum of 1.5 miles apart. The drivers could and should have continued to the next refuge which as I understand it from reading the story was actually 800 meters away. Regardless of any law I would not have taken that risk.

What's needed is of course more roads and more infrastructure but it aint going to happen and if it does it will take forever....
In the meantime what's required is better education of drivers especially the older drivers and those that rarely use motorways. Before smart motorways not one ever highlighted the dangers of breaking down in the 3rd lane or the second lane? I have broken down only twice on a motorway and on one occasion ended up stranded on lane 3 with a seized car the other I couldn't roll from lane 3 to the hard shoulder, ending up stuck on lane 1. Both of these where no overhead signs were active.
At least now we have stretches of motorway that are completely monitored by cameras, they offer speeding tickets and fines for using lanes with a red cross.
I'm going out on a limb here and think that smart motorways used properly are actually safer than ever. Also remember of course that if you compared the amount of breakdowns to even 15 years ago to today the number has massively reduced due to how reliable cars now are compared to 10-20 or even 30 years ago.

 

[haganap]

Perhaps when you are unfortunate to break down and there is no time for red crosses to operate or affect traffic speed and flow you will be praising your enhanced and faster journey into the hereafter and whoever else you've managed to take with you

aww that's nice thanks xx

 

[jongood]

I also saw this story and could not believe that someone would stop on a motorway to exchange details whilst the motorway was live.
Refuge areas are place at the maximum of 1.5 miles apart. The drivers could and should have continued to the next refuge which as I understand it from reading the story was actually 800 meters away. Regardless of any law I would not have taken that risk.

What's needed is of course more roads and more infrastructure but it aint going to happen and if it does it will take forever....
In the meantime what's required is better education of drivers especially the older drivers and those that rarely use motorways. Before smart motorways not one ever highlighted the dangers of breaking down in the 3rd lane or the second lane? I have broken down only twice on a motorway and on one occasion ended up stranded on lane 3 with a seized car the other I couldn't roll from lane 3 to the hard shoulder, ending up stuck on lane 1. Both of these where no overhead signs were active.
At least now we have stretches of motorway that are completely monitored by cameras, they offer speeding tickets and fines for using lanes with a red cross.
I'm going out on a limb here and think that smart motorways used properly are actually safer than ever. Also remember of course that if you compared the amount of breakdowns to even 15 years ago to today the number has massively reduced due to how reliable cars now are compared to 10-20 or even 30 years ago.

I agree with a lot of your post Paul but I think the point that you re missing is that Joe public isnt that interested in driving as a skill, it's merely a means to an end. I know plenty of people who hate driving. They are not as interested as they should be in new developments and therefore when faced with an unforeseen event they don't know how to react. Many of these took their tests ( not that long ago) where they were told if you need a refuge to head for the hard shoulder.

 

[EX51SSS]

Too many drivers especially HGV drivers seem to refuse to use the left lane.

Basically it's because you get I them and have difficulty getting into the next lane when the left lane disappears a couple of miles down or it is for the upcoming junction

 

[BobtheBass]

Smart motorways WITH a hard shoulder as well. Now there's an idea. Problems solved, sod the cost, the hard shoulder itself could be made of the cheapest materials and built as quickly as possible. I saw an old VW camper van stutter, break down and suddenly stop in the inside lane of a smart motorway a few weeks ago. I swerved round it as did the vehicles behind me but I have no idea what happened then, except that the poor driver would have been terrified.

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[2x2camper]

Of course what we actually need are more roads. A Motorway from cardiff to Chester would take a lot of pressure off M6/M5

We actually need the opposite, that is less vehicles

 

[busby]

I also saw this story and could not believe that someone would stop on a motorway to exchange details whilst the motorway was live.
Refuge areas are place at the maximum of 1.5 miles apart. The drivers could and should have continued to the next refuge which as I understand it from reading the story was actually 800 meters away. Regardless of any law I would not have taken that risk.

What's needed is of course more roads and more infrastructure but it aint going to happen and if it does it will take forever....
In the meantime what's required is better education of drivers especially the older drivers and those that rarely use motorways. Before smart motorways not one ever highlighted the dangers of breaking down in the 3rd lane or the second lane? I have broken down only twice on a motorway and on one occasion ended up stranded on lane 3 with a seized car the other I couldn't roll from lane 3 to the hard shoulder, ending up stuck on lane 1. Both of these where no overhead signs were active.
At least now we have stretches of motorway that are completely monitored by cameras, they offer speeding tickets and fines for using lanes with a red cross.
I'm going out on a limb here and think that smart motorways used properly are actually safer than ever. Also remember of course that if you compared the amount of breakdowns to even 15 years ago to today the number has massively reduced due to how reliable cars now are compared to 10-20 or even 30 years ago.

One breakdown without a hard shoulder is enough to kiil you.BUSBY.

 

[mpdcymru]

Smart motorways are only good if used by smart drivers

Unfortunately we do not have enough of the latter

 

[busby]

Unfortunately we do not have enough of the latter

They would still be dangerous with good drivers using them..BUSBY.

 

[haganap]

One breakdown without a hard shoulder is enough to kiil you.BUSBY.

and?

read my post, one breakdown with a hard shoulder can be as deadly.

Here's a fact for you. More than 100 people are killed and or injured, guess where?

yep on the hard shoulder of the motorway.

Statistically it's the most dangerous place to be on the motorway.

as said, I would rather have a monitored motorway with the huge technology that goes in to it than a dead hard shoulder and be broken down on it.

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