tag axle service

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Apr 11, 2023
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Hi again Funsters, I wrote this somewhere else but it must not have highlighted as no responses, unlike you happy lot!
Refresh, I am/was in the throes of making an offer for a 2008 Burstner i821 G with comfortmatic, only mid 30k mileage, but as private sale, and the horror stories from those who have problems, I am sure a minority but...no warranty, so I thought I had better do some research on the potential costs to repair. What I found sort of blew me away, Chelston Motorhomes is a mile down the road, they nearly laughed at me, said we do not work on anything we have not sold, ok said I where would I go? no answer was the reply! so got in touch with Vospers in Exeter, just 20 miles down the road, fiat professional service agents, whoooo, they said, we have one of those in at the moment (Comfortmatic that is) we have had the box out twice trying to sort a clutch issue, still not fixed...and we could not 'do' your tag axle as it is too long for our lift, pits, it seems are only for trucks these day! Ranf Huttons in Weston Super Mare, also fiat professional workshop, same thing, too long for our lift, try Motus in Gloucester, so I did, they said yes we can repair it, gearbox has to come out down obviously we would work off the floor, but, but but, again much sucking of teeth, saying if you ask our advice walk away! new box £8k, just the solenoid system £2k, they are quoting a clutch as 12 hours labour, so with the VAT about £1,500 plus parts, some £750 including the dmf at a guess.
So Funsters, there are of course a relatively low proportion of tag axles out there, but still a significant number, it appears that a man in a van is unlikely to have the specialist knowledge and tools to work on these things, yet most of the problems once properly diagnosed appear to be relatively simple, the issue is proper diagnosis how do you all manage, those of you with Comfortmatics and or Tag's? Am I wrong in my thinking?
 
We have the fiat tag on comformatic , bought from a dealer and purchased a 3 yr warranty including recovery so no need to worry at the mo , as you say it's only a small minority that you hear about against how many are out there
 
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My current van is tag axle but manual, over 14 years have had no issues with servicing, initially at a fiat approved, but recently a very good local independent garage (they also do cars/trucks/buses) but they are in Yorkshire
 
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I would be a worried with such a low mileage it would arrpear to have spent most of its life sitting around which often leads to more problems than vehicles with normal mileage.
We are on our second van with a Comfomatic not had any problems with them. Last one did 28k in 3 years current one is 6 years old and done over 40k.

Adams Morey at Portsmouth know their way round Comformatc's but not cheap, £115 + VAT per hour.
 
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My current van is tag axle but manual, over 14 years have had no issues with servicing, initially at a fiat approved, but recently a very good local independent garage (they also do cars/trucks/buses) but they are in Yorkshire
Does anyone know anyone in Somerset?

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I would be a worried with such a low mileage it would arrpear to have spent most of its life sitting around which often leads to more problems than vehicles with normal mileage.
We are on our second van with a Comfomatic not had any problems with them. Last one did 28k in 3 years current one is 6 years old and done over 40k.

Adams Morey at Portsmouth know their way round Comformatc's but not cheap, £115 + VAT per hour.
And a long way away!
 
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We have the fiat tag on comformatic , bought from a dealer and purchased a 3 yr warranty including recovery so no need to worry at the mo , as you say it's only a small minority that you hear about against how many are out there
Yes for sure, but no warranty on a private sale, and not able to buy one either at 2008, dealer prices are out of my reach, the safe option is manual of course but I would like an auto.
 
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Suggest you contact JRW Commercials in Nailsea. We use them for servicing our Frankia. Son uses them for his Transit. Also used by local bus and coach companies.
 
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I can't see that the 'tag' bit makes much difference to the reliability or otherwise of the vehicle. Apart from the extra length being a problem for some garages the rest of the running gear is the same as a normal 4 wheel van.
Also I don't think I would be taking a 15 year old vehicle anywhere near a main dealer 😱. Plenty of commercial vehicle garages around with far more reasonable hourly rates.
 
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I see you have a Taunton Postcode so you re not so far from me.

I use Julian Hutchings who runs Devon Trucks for my servicing and MOT's as he has both pits and rising platforms to cope with our size of vehicle. They do work for the Exeter & District NHS Hospital.

He is based at Unit5 Greendale Business Park East, Woodbury Salterton, Devon, EX5 1EW

He does mostly commercial trucks and vans but also motorhomes. They are regularly stripping down engines etc that I see when I have been there. To date I have needed nothing more than regular servicing and MOT's and never ever had any complaints to date. He also recommended me to a bodyworks for some minor body damage who were also excellent.

Telephone 01395 239399 or email julian@devontrucks.co.uk
 
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I can't see that the 'tag' bit makes much difference to the reliability or otherwise of the vehicle. Apart from the extra length being a problem for some garages the rest of the running gear is the same as a normal 4 wheel van.
Also I don't think I would be taking a 15 year old vehicle anywhere near a main dealer 😱. Plenty of commercial vehicle garages around with far more reasonable hourly rates.
Hi, thank you for your response, the issue for me is twofold, the main one being the bad press the Comfortmatic gearbox has got, before purchasing I need to find someone local to me in Somerset who has the knowledge and the necessary tools to deal with them, from what I am reading a massive proportion of the problems are not being able to correctly diagnose the problem, ending in replacing all sorts of unnecessary items. There appears to be issues on several levels. 1st is operator understanding, you cannot use them like a 'normal' auto, hold them on a hill on the throttle and you burn the clutch out, very expensive, 2nd apparently they can get confused in stop start, don't left foot brake and throttle simultaneously as you can with a full auto, 3rd not using them enough, the clutch adjust probably then sticks and causes problems, 4th incorrect clutch fluid changes, common reservoir with brake, so change the brake fluid without also flushing the clutch is another problem, 5th apparently unused actuators 'dry out' presumably the oil drains away over time also causing problems, 6th the potential cost implications.
So, unless I can find someone relatively local who is knowledgeable and can convince me they can diagnose, and fix the mostly relatively minor issues that magnify with incorrect understanding, I will have to walk away from a Comfortmatic, all the dealers I have spoken to thus far have advised against it, I realise that is the 'easy answer' for them. I need to find someone who is positive about them.
The second issue is the three axles and most lifts cannot accommodate them, so how do you properly service them, even fit a new exhaust, let alone a clutch.
 
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I see you have a Taunton Postcode so you re not so far from me.

I use Julian Hutchings who runs Devon Trucks for my servicing and MOT's as he has both pits and rising platforms to cope with our size of vehicle. They do work for the Exeter & District NHS Hospital.

He is based at Unit5 Greendale Business Park East, Woodbury Salterton, Devon, EX5 1EW

He does mostly commercial trucks and vans but also motorhomes. They are regularly stripping down engines etc that I see when I have been there. To date I have needed nothing more than regular servicing and MOT's and never ever had any complaints to date. He also recommended me to a bodyworks for some minor body damage who were also excellent.

Telephone 01395 239399 or email julian@devontrucks.co.uk
Hi Abacist, thank you for that, I will contact himm 'directly' as they say in an adjacent county! I presume you run a tag, Comfortmatic as well perhaps??? :cool:
 
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Just my opinion so you may not agree, but I wouldn't touch a motorhome of that age if it had a Comfortmatic.
If it was me, I would be looking for one with a 3.0L engine and a manual gearbox.

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The Tag axle is most likely going to be on an Alko chassis and these need their torsion bars greasing every year which is something to ask to be done.

I have "cooked" my clutch a few times in the 5 years that I have had it. Early on it was trying to hold on a hill which I soon learnt was a No No. It also does not like reversing or going up a slight hill with lots of lock on! So I try to avoid these situations as much as possible. I bought mine at 4 years old with 1,800 miles on the clock and have since added 18,000 in 5 years and the clutch is still going strong!
We did some alpine passes last autumn as we have done in the past so either the clutch is tough as old boots or the wear adjuster works well!

We are also a comformatic auto with the 3 litre engine and, touch wood, both have been problem free to date!

Mine is a Niesmann & Bischoff 8.8m at 5 ton MLW or 6 ton GTW and we do tow a Citroen C1 when touring in the UK.
 
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Just my opinion so you may not agree, but I wouldn't touch a motorhome of that age if it had a Comfortmatic.
If it was me, I would be looking for one with a 3.0L engine and a manual gearbox.
Understand, in a normal world Auto's are as reliable as any these days, just not these robotic operated manual boxes, despite the box itself being fairly bulletproof, shame 'innit'!
 
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The Tag axle is most likely going to be on an Alko chassis and these need their torsion bars greasing every year which is something to ask to be done.

I have "cooked" my clutch a few times in the 5 years that I have had it. Early on it was trying to hold on a hill which I soon learnt was a No No. It also does not like reversing or going up a slight hill with lots of lock on! So I try to avoid these situations as much as possible. I bought mine at 4 years old with 1,800 miles on the clock and have since added 18,000 in 5 years and the clutch is still going strong!
We did some alpine passes last autumn as we have done in the past so either the clutch is tough as old boots or the wear adjuster works well!

We are also a comformatic auto with the 3 litre engine and, touch wood, both have been problem free to date!

Mine is a Niesmann & Bischoff 8.8m at 5 ton MLW or 6 ton GTW and we do tow a Citroen C1 when touring in the UK.
May I ask what it cost to replace the clutch? I presume they changed the dmf as well?
 
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If I was buying a motorhome of that age this would tick a lot of boxes -

 
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I have not had the clutch changed yet! Its still going strong on the original!

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Hi, thank you for your response, the issue for me is twofold, the main one being the bad press the Comfortmatic gearbox has got, before purchasing I need to find someone local to me in Somerset who has the knowledge and the necessary tools to deal with them, from what I am reading a massive proportion of the problems are not being able to correctly diagnose the problem, ending in replacing all sorts of unnecessary items. There appears to be issues on several levels. 1st is operator understanding, you cannot use them like a 'normal' auto, hold them on a hill on the throttle and you burn the clutch out, very expensive, 2nd apparently they can get confused in stop start, don't left foot brake and throttle simultaneously as you can with a full auto, 3rd not using them enough, the clutch adjust probably then sticks and causes problems, 4th incorrect clutch fluid changes, common reservoir with brake, so change the brake fluid without also flushing the clutch is another problem, 5th apparently unused actuators 'dry out' presumably the oil drains away over time also causing problems, 6th the potential cost implications.
So, unless I can find someone relatively local who is knowledgeable and can convince me they can diagnose, and fix the mostly relatively minor issues that magnify with incorrect understanding, I will have to walk away from a Comfortmatic, all the dealers I have spoken to thus far have advised against it, I realise that is the 'easy answer' for them. I need to find someone who is positive about them.
The second issue is the three axles and most lifts cannot accommodate them, so how do you properly service them, even fit a new exhaust, let alone a clutch.
It would appear to me that any comfortmatic would not be a good option for you as you will have permanent 'comfortmatic anxiety'. You also talk about driving techniques which are bad habits in my view. Your left foot should be idle with acceleration and braking right foot only.
 
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It would appear to me that any comfortmatic would not be a good option for you as you will have permanent 'comfortmatic anxiety'. You also talk about driving techniques which are bad habits in my view. Your left foot should be idle with acceleration and braking right foot only.
I to would question why you would left foot braking driving an automatic?
Only time you do that is in a rally car lol.

Not had a motorhome with fiat auto but have done many miles with the car versions and never had any issues.
Had more issues with the 5 speed box on the old 2.8 manual throwing it’s toys out the pram.

Go try and test drive the van you like and worry if you can live with what might or might not happen!!
 
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I would be a worried with such a low mileage it would arrpear to have spent most of its life sitting around which often leads to more problems than vehicles with normal mileage.
We are on our second van with a Comfomatic not had any problems with them. Last one did 28k in 3 years current one is 6 years old and done over 40k.

Adams Morey at Portsmouth know their way round Comformatc's but not cheap, £115 + VAT per hour.
That’s a steal compared to Motus in Gloucester at a Guess lol
 
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I to would question why you would left foot braking driving an automatic?
Only time you do that is in a rally car lol.

Not had a motorhome with fiat auto but have done many miles with the car versions and never had any issues.
Had more issues with the 5 speed box on the old 2.8 manual throwing it’s toys out the pram.

Go try and test drive the van you like and worry if you can live with what might or might not happen!!
Because it is not a true automatic, no fluid flywheel, one of the causes of the problems, people hold them on the throttle, but what they are actually doing is holding it on the clutch, so on a hill you either have to left foot brake or use the handbrake. From the feedback it can also get 'confused is slow traffic shuttling the right foot quickly from brake to throttle, all this intel is on this forum, some people also call the up button hill holding, I have not heard of a proper hill holding option, it might save a few problems if there was one.
 
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I to would question why you would left foot braking driving an automatic?
Only time you do that is in a rally car lol.

Not had a motorhome with fiat auto but have done many miles with the car versions and never had any issues.
Had more issues with the 5 speed box on the old 2.8 manual throwing it’s toys out the pram.

Go try and test drive the van you like and worry if you can live with what might or might not happen!!
I think the box on the 3L is not the same as the 2.8, anybody know better?
 
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It would appear to me that any comfortmatic would not be a good option for you as you will have permanent 'comfortmatic anxiety'. You also talk about driving techniques which are bad habits in my view. Your left foot should be idle with acceleration and braking right foot only.
I completely agree, but it is, from the information I can find one of the causes of the problem, I am an Engineer so completely understand what the box is, but also a Yorkshireman, so, measure twice, cut once. Especially with all the bad press this box has had, well, the robot part of it and its 'logic' one of the reasons for wanting the 'auto' is my left leg is not what it should be! I am just trying to be as well informed as possible before I make a call.
 
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Because it is not a true automatic, no fluid flywheel, one of the causes of the problems, people hold them on the throttle, but what they are actually doing is holding it on the clutch, so on a hill you either have to left foot brake or use the handbrake. From the feedback it can also get 'confused is slow traffic shuttling the right foot quickly from brake to throttle, all this intel is on this forum, some people also call the up button hill holding, I have not heard of a proper hill holding option, it might save a few problems if there was one.
You need to research the driving of the comfortmatic you long press the brake and it gives you 3-4 seconds of brake hold.
From your replies on this thread and others you need to make your mind either you look at these or get a merc true auto and have a fluid flywheel and you have what you desire
 
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I understand but it may well spoil your pleasure if it’s constantly in the back of your mind. All you do is carry out due diligence to make an informed decision. I can only imagine there are more happy comfortmatic owners than unhappy, but when they have a catastrophic failure they can be very expensive.
 
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