Suspension - More of a whinge than a question.......

[CarlSN]

Having bought a new 6.4m Ducato last year and loaded it out, got the axle weights measured and all within spec (just). The chassis is a 'maxi', yet the springs are flat and sit on the bump stops.

So that's why I have a crashing ride and loads of rattles.

So my remedy is to ordered double leaf springs from MRS, a damn sight cheaper than semi-air (also less technical to fit) and probably more suitable than Sumo's as they only seem to be rated to 1200kg/2800lbs Rear axle weight 1760kg).

I dare say the single springs only saved the manufacturer £50 a piece (if that), but how can they send out a van that will spend its life fully loaded in such a condition. Suppose its buyer beware and don't consider how it sits when viewed on a forecourt.

Oh, so much to learn........

 

[bigtwin]

Oh, so much to learn........

Quite possibly. Many folks don’t seem to realise that what you refer to as ‘bump stops’ are actually spring assisters and the chassis is designed to rest on them.

What pressures are you running your tyres (hopefully not 80psi);at as that may be your underlying issue?

Ian

 

[oldiesontour]

My boxer sat on its " bump stops" (pvc) but same principle hated the ride back sat low so fitted air assist totally different ride.. don't forget double leaf will lower payload,as you say poor / cheap design

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

Confusion in naming convention, me thinks.
Bump stops are not spring assisters.
Bump stops are designed to prevent metal-on-metal contact and limit suspension travel, while spring assisters are designed to stiffen the suspension and maintain vehicle stability under load.

Hth

 

[CarlSN]

Quite possibly. Many folks don’t seem to realise that what you refer to as ‘bump stops’ are actually spring assisters and the chassis is designed to rest on them.

What pressures are you running your tyres (hopefully not 80psi);at as that may be your underlying issue?

Ian

Well the springs are flat if that's the case, both coil and leaf.

As for pressure, I've dropped them to circa 60 - 65psi having read a previous discussion (Tyres are Michelin Agilis Camping)

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[oldiesontour]

Confusion in naming convention, me thinks.
Bump stops are not spring assisters.
Bump stops are designed to prevent metal-on-metal contact and limit suspension travel, while spring assisters are designed to stiffen the suspension and maintain vehicle stability under load.

Hth

that's why I put it in quotes...the cause and effect are the same springs that aren't man enough and a rough ride ...a convoluted bit of rubber is no substitute for a decent spring IMO

 

[CarlSN]

Confusion in naming convention, me thinks.
Bump stops are not spring assisters.
Bump stops are designed to prevent metal-on-metal contact and limit suspension travel, while spring assisters are designed to stiffen the suspension and maintain vehicle stability under load.

Hth

So these little sexy beasts are either bump stop or spring assists? I don't believe they're very springy.

 

[CarlSN]

My boxer sat on its " bump stops" (pvc) but same principle hated the ride back sat low so fitted air assist totally different ride.. don't forget double leaf will lower payload,as you say poor / cheap design

Now I didn't see that coming.

How does extra spring force reduce my payload?

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

that's why I put it in quotes...the cause and effect are the same springs that aren't man enough and a rough ride ...a convoluted bit of rubber is no substitute for a decent spring IMO

I was responding to another's post

 

[oldiesontour]

Now I didn't see that coming.

How does extra spring force reduce my payload?

Surely the extra leaf has a weight to it ?

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[TheMobileWanderer]

Now I didn't see that coming.

How does extra spring force reduce my payload?

The weight of that spring will form part of your GVW.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

After further thought....
Why not start with replacement of the original spring. If the van was habitually overloaded, that spring could be knackered. If you jump to add a leaf to assist a knackered leaf, you'll not get the correct rebound and so the ride will not be optimal.
If after replacing the original leaf you're still not happy, then you could explore other options.
Hth

 

[oldiesontour]

After further thought....
Why not start with replacement of the original spring. If the van was habitually overloaded, that spring could be knackered. If you jump to add a leaf to assist a knackered leaf, you'll not get the correct rebound and so the ride will not be optimal.
If after replacing the original leaf you're still not happy, then you could explore other options.
Hth

The op brought it new last year

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

The op brought it new last year

Yes, so, i wonder, is there not a warranty?!
He may or may not have exceeded the permitted weight on the axle but, it seems, he is over the weight for the leaf spring. Continual resting on the stops can soon weaken the spring which was my reasoning behind my suggestion.

 

[CarlSN]

Listening to whats been said, it could be said that weight saving was carried out during conversion by the inclusion of the single spring at the detriment to the ride.

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[oldiesontour]

Yes, so, i wonder, is there not a warranty?!
He may or may not have exceeded the permitted weight on the axle but, it seems, he is over the weight for the leaf spring. Continual resting on the stops can soon weaken the spring which was my reasoning behind my suggestion.

Maybe but my boxer had done 20k never carried above half a load and sat on its " spring assisters when I bought it.Warranty would probably not be considered as it's doing what it was designed to do ...using its spring assist when loaded..(.and giving an awful ride)

 

[CarlSN]

Yes, so, i wonder, is there not a warranty?!
He may or may not have exceeded the permitted weight on the axle but, it seems, he is over the weight for the leaf spring. Continual resting on the stops can soon weaken the spring which was my reasoning behind my suggestion.

I'm now thinking more of a 'fit for purpose' rather than warranty. I dare say both difficult to prove. Any lawyers around?

 

[oldiesontour]

Listening to whats been said, it could be said that weight saving was carried out during conversion by the inclusion of the single spring at the detriment to the ride.

Weight and cost saving perhaps !!!! Oh no they wouldn't do something like that would they ?

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

Listening to whats been said, it could be said that weight saving was carried out during conversion by the inclusion of the single spring at the detriment to the ride.

That wouldn't surprise me. You mentioned the chassis is a 'maxi'. Do you mean Maximover, the company?

I've wondered how the cills of their finished empty van are parallel with the floor.

 

[Happy Jack]

My boxer sat on its " bump stops" (pvc) but same principle hated the ride back sat low so fitted air assist totally different ride.. don't forget double leaf will lower payload,as you say poor / cheap design

How do double leaf springs lower the payload?

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[TheMobileWanderer]

How do double leaf springs lower the payload?

Because the weight of the extra leaf is part of GVW. More specifically, it's part of the Unladen weight aka Kerb weight.

 

[oldiesontour]

How do double leaf springs lower the payload?

By weighing more than single leaf !

 

[gus-lopez]

sit on the bump stops.

Spring assistors , as said

So these little sexy beasts are either bump stop or spring assists? I don't believe they're very springy.
View attachment 1025473

change them for air bags

How does extra spring force reduce my payload?

How do double leaf springs lower the payload?

The weight of the extra spring comes off the payload

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

By weighing more than single leaf !

You're more concise than me

 

[Happy Jack]

Having bought a new 6.4m Ducato last year and loaded it out, got the axle weights measured and all within spec (just). The chassis is a 'maxi', yet the springs are flat and sit on the bump stops.

So that's why I have a crashing ride and loads of rattles.

So my remedy is to ordered double leaf springs from MRS, a damn sight cheaper than semi-air (also less technical to fit) and probably more suitable than Sumo's as they only seem to be rated to 1200kg/2800lbs Rear axle weight 1760kg).

I dare say the single springs only saved the manufacturer £50 a piece (if that), but how can they send out a van that will spend its life fully loaded in such a condition. Suppose its buyer beware and don't consider how it sits when viewed on a forecourt.

Oh, so much to learn........

Hi Carl.
I fitted double leaf springs to my Fiat Ducato MWB light chassis as the originals were almost flat same as yours.
Ride was much harsher. MOT guy remarked on it.
Went back to single springs and fitted semi-air.
Much better ride and ride height increased by 50mm.
Also fitted uprated coil springs.
Ride much better all round now.

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[Happy Jack]

By weighing more than single leaf !

DOH, it's that obvious