Strange Electrical Problems

[A S R]

I’ve been mooching around the highlands of Scotland for two weeks now with no issues whatsoever until yesterday. Nothing to do with the Hab side of the van ( as far as my limited knowledge understands ) 2007 Fiat Ducato, but the starting / charging side. Now I have a volt meter on my dash directly linked to the engine battery and that normally reads around 14.1 - 14.4 so I don’t think it’s a charging issue ( but am willing to be corrected ) but when I stopped in the fuel station in Broadford and filled up with lpg the dash / volt meter / engine battery had a huge moment! There was some clicking from the dash ( clock needles dancing all over the place ) the lcd display was flashing randomly, the volt meter immediately dropped to around 5v and obviously wouldn’t start!
I got my jump starter pack out and it immediately started up so I filled up with diesel too. left it running when I paid then it ran perfectly until I stopped in a lay-by about 25 miles away. I turned the van off and the volt meter dropped to around 3v and the blooming alarm went off, clock needles jumping etc. Great! It wouldn’t start so I got my jump pack out again but it didnt want to go. The alarm went off again. After about 5 mins it started up but I had no throttle response! I turned it off again and had quite a battle to get it going again! Once it started it ran perfectly! I carried on until I got to my overnight parking that has a plug in, turned it off and it immediately went to 3v ish.
Now, I have a brand new starter battery with me ( don’t ask! ) and thought sod it, I’ll swap it over to see if it cures the problem. The battery is between the front seats and a bit of a pain to get at but I took the cover off and bingo, everything sorts itself out! Not a clue as to what the issue was / is but the van battery jumped back to 13.1v and it started up off the key straight away! WTF? I’ve just started it this morning 3 times without issue! I’ve checked all connections on the battery and all is fine?
Anyone else with a Fiat Ducato had similar symptoms?

 

[DBK]

I would suspect connections including the earth strap. Otherwise, an intermittent internal fault in the battery.

 

[Terry]

I second a bad earth or loose battery connection

 

[A S R]

Possibly. It definitely seems like some sort of dodgy connection / shorting somewhere. Strange that when I opened the battery cover it seemed to sort itself out? Nothing can move in there and no cables seem to have any chafing on them. These things do my head in!

 

[Terry]

Has battery cover bent touching connections? If so cover with plastic or non conductive material

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[denisejoe]

I was in Belgium a couple of years ago and the guy next to me couldn’t start his brand new van so took my multimeter and battery was at 13+ volts but when I tested on the connectors the voltage was 6 v when checked the bolts couldn’t be tightened any more but + connector was slightly loose so has to loosen It and put some small pins in then tighten up it started first time.
he said as soon as he got to a fiat garage he would get it sorted

 

[A S R]

Just slid under the front of the van and checked the connections on the starter motor and the engine earth strap. Both seem good. I’ll get into the battery box again shortly.

 

[Neckender]

The earth cable on the Fiats were known for corrosion internally and would look ok from the outside, and it’s a well known fact that people were fitting a separate earth cable from engine or gearbox to a good earth point. I think Our dear Techno did an article on this using welding cable for a new earth.

John.

 

[pappajohn]

If it was a connection or earth strap fault the problem would still be there after fitting the new battery
A battery, like a light bulb, can fail instantly.
An open cell is my thought

 

[Neckender]

If you have this problem again connect a jump lead from a point on the engine and the other end to the body or chassis and if it starts ok you know that it’s an earth problem.

John.

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[St3v3]

Your volt meter connected directly to the battery - is that both negative and positive or does it get an earth locally?

If locally, I'd be changing the earth strap too. And take apart and clean/reconnect anything else relevant that you can.

If both negative and positive go to the meter straight from the battery it's likely dead. After cleaning and reconnecting those connections of course.

 

[A S R]

Both positive and negative wires go to the battery from the volt meter.

 

[St3v3]

Both positive and negative wires go to the battery from the volt meter.

OK, so as long as they are good connections at the battery it does sound like it's had it. I'd say prove the meter is accurate, but the non starting kind of does that for you.

 

[Clive Mott]

Have seen this myself. Turned out to be severe corrosion around the battery chassis connection at the chassis end of the braid. In my case it was under the battery shelf to one of the front suspension top studs. Needed a significant welding job. A jump lead between battery negative to the chassis proved it.

 

[A S R]

Have seen this myself. Turned out to be severe corrosion around the battery chassis connection at the chassis end of the braid. In my case it was under the battery shelf to one of the front suspension top studs. Needed a significant welding job. A jump lead between battery negative to the chassis proved it.

Ooh ok. Interesting thanks. I prodded the earth strap at the connection on the N/S/F chassis leg and it seemed solid. I’ll see if I can get to the battery box end.

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[A S R]

Has battery cover bent touching connections? If so cover with plastic or non conductive material

The positive terminals have a plastic cover over them so nothing touching them.

 

[autorouter]

When these low voltage episodes happen, did you measure the voltage of the battery at the actual battery terminals with a multimeter? It's the only way to tell if it's a battery problem or a connection problem. Don't 'assume' any of the connections are OK.

 

[St3v3]

Have seen this myself. Turned out to be severe corrosion around the battery chassis connection at the chassis end of the braid. In my case it was under the battery shelf to one of the front suspension top studs. Needed a significant welding job. A jump lead between battery negative to the chassis proved it.

A voltmeter connected directly to the battery showed 5v, so in this case, it's more than that.

 

[A S R]

Well the volt meter was showing 12.9v this morning but when I went to start it….. nothing, apart from the needles clicking about! It’s now showing 9.5v.
Could it be a voltage regulator issue? It charges at 14.4v with a battery charger / engine running on?

 

[A S R]

Well there we go! I took the battery cover off and bingo! Its now started as normal!

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[GeoffnDee]

I think you need to remove the battery (and earth) cables , and give them, along with the body connections , a good clean also check that the main fuses at the positive battery terminal are tight.

 

[autorouter]

Well the volt meter was showing 12.9v this morning but when I went to start it….. nothing, apart from the needles clicking about! It’s now showing 9.5v.

Well there we go! I took the battery cover off and bingo! Its now started as normal!

As I said, you really do need to get a multimeter and measure the voltage of the battery at the battery terminals. You need to know if the battery voltage is really dropping to 9.5V, or is it bad connections causing the voltmeter to read low voltage while the actual battery voltage stays at 12.9V all the time. I suspect there's a bad connection at the terminals, but I could easily be wrong.

 

[A S R]

I’ve now removed both battery terminals and the battery earth strap, wire brushed all contacts, and put everything back. It start’s perfectly just now. I’ll have to go for a drive tomorrow and see if it plays up again.
Don’t you just love intermittent electrical gremlins!

 

[mitzimad]

have you tried recharging the original battery it could be a simple as the battery has expired if its the original i would suspect it has

 

[A S R]

Yep, I have a Victron Energy blue power charger that has charged it up in the past. I have it here with me now and used it when I first got here 2 days ago. Doesn’t seem to make much difference to be honest. When it plays up then the van won’t go but when I remove the battery cover it starts repeatedly with no issues. I’m hoping it’s just a dodgy connection somewhere. When I cleaned all the contacts I tapped the positive clamp on a bit more. It all looked ok though?
I replaced the battery with a new one a couple of years ago but I also have a brand new one with me. I’d rather see if it’s a problem elsewhere first before putting the new one on just in case there’s something elsewhere knackering it up. I don’t want to waste a brand new one if I can help it.

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