Sorry, I just can't get my head round power / electrics / inverter vs a bl**ding toaster of all things!

PaulC70

PaulC70

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Genuinely, Im just flummoxed about watts power etc etc etc.
I'm almost certain it's a simple case of "no" being the answer but...

Wife's bought a "low wattage toaster" 750w but my inverter is a Victron phoenix 250 which has a peak power of 400w and think its a running power of only 200w.

So, can I run that toaster on that inverter, someone please put me out of my misery and confirm it's a no before she insists on "giving it a go" and blowing a fuse somewhere?
 
It's a big NO. Actually several hundred nos
 
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Investors drain batteries, they change the 12v from the battery to 240v (20 times as many volts) so use a lot of juice from the battery.
You’re better off plugging into the mains.
 
Jimbohorlicks said:
No. Just use your gas grill (y)
Click to expand...

It's crap for toast hence her indoors wanting this.

Sneds said:
Investors drain batteries, they change the 12v from the battery to 240v (20 times as many volts) so use a lot of juice from the battery.
You’re better off plugging into the mains.
Click to expand...
Yeah I get that but I was looking at when off grid, which for us is most of the time.

Thanks all for the confirmation, was sure it couldn't work. To be fair this inverters a temporary solution to a different problem ( ie charging the wifes mobility scooter, which it does nicely) There is a plan for a proper inverter and another solar panel once funds allow.
 
Bread & Butter......😉

Cheers🍻

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As previously written....find an alternative to toast.... don't try to copy how you normally prepare or eat at home, whilst camping.caravannning or motorhoming..
Eat food that's easy to prepare and easy to cook....how about...Toast...🤔😂😂
 
I'll try to explain.

Your toaster is 750watts.
When you plug it in at home the supply is (ball park 240volts)(yes I know it could be less but stay with me all you pedants)
So, when you use it at home, you are using just over 3amps, cos amps equals watts divided by volts.

Now, when you go in the van and you aren't plugged into the EHU, the only way you're going to get that toaster to work is by plugging it into an inverter.
Your first problem is that the inverter should have the power output to work the toaster plus some more to account for the fact that in converting the 12ish volts in the van to get the toaster to work on 240volts, it loses some in efficiency.
As a result, the very least sized inverter you're going to need is a 1000 watt jobby.

Here's the bit that others have mentioned.
You remember when I said that amps = watts divided by volts.

When you use 12volts to get the toaster to work it's exactly the same. Watts (750) divided by volts (12)(That's what your battery has in volts
That works out at 63ish amps.
That means that, for every hour your toast is going brown, you will be using that plus whatever as a result of the inefficiency of the Inverter.
A lead acid battery of 100amp/hrs only has 50 amps of use on a good day before it will be damaged irretrievably.

As the guys and gals have suggested. Do the toast on Gas. Your inverter isn't up to the job, and even if it were, you could damage your battery.
I could go on about the size of cables running the inverter but I'll leave that to others.
 
If the toaster is just a basic resistive element and doesn't rely on electrics to pop up then it would probably still work at a reduced power of 200/750 so your toast would take all day to .. toast 🤔
 
PaulC70 said:
but my inverter is a Victron phoenix 250 which has a peak power of 400w and think its a running power of only 200w.
Click to expand...

Emmit said:
I'll try to explain.

Your toaster is 750watts.
Click to expand...

I think you could have saved an awful of typing time

A 200W invertor even at peak 400W can’t run a 750W device 🤔👍
 
DavidG58 said:
I think you could have saved an awful of typing time

A 200W invertor even at peak 400W can’t run a 750W device 🤔👍
Click to expand...

Whilst I appreciate that YOU AND I know that, in his OP, the Funster said he was flummoxed.

Without an explanation, instruction is nothing.

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Emmit said:
Whilst I appreciate that YOU AND I know that, in his OP, the Funster said he was flummoxed.

Without an explanation, instruction is nothing.
Click to expand...
But but but...

The OP knows his inverter is rated for 200 watts...

He knows the toaster needs 750 watts.

His good lady doesn't need to test it.

It won't work!


JJ :cool:
 
JJ said:
But but but...

The OP knows his inverter is rated for 200 watts...

He knows the toaster needs 750 watts.

His good lady doesn't need to test it.

It won't work!


JJ :cool:
Click to expand...
Just to explain how flummoxed and frankly how stupid I am when it comes to this kind of thing, I know the toaster says its a 750 watt toaster, I don't know what that means. I know the inverter is rated at 200 watts, I also don't know what that means.
I've no idea about what a watt, amp or volt is other than I have seen bulbs for certain watts, the more the brighter. Amps, I know what a 13 amp plug is and how to change one as I've seen it written on the fuse. Volts I know we tend to be 240v here in the uk and that america apparantly use 110 and that big burly construction workers will use 110v yellow boxes which are plugged into 240v so for some reason want less power for bigger machines.

As for what watts an amp is, how many volts a watt needs, how watts are used over how long or any of those calculation are, not a chuffing clue it's just not something my brain can handle.
Now put me in front of a newborn baby that has no pulse and isn't breathing and Im your man, but electrics etc? nope.
 
dunnah01 said:
If the toaster is just a basic resistive element and doesn't rely on electrics to pop up then it would probably still work at a reduced power of 200/750 so your toast would take all day to .. toast 🤔
Click to expand...
I don't think so, the resistence of the element will too low for the small inverter. The voltage is fixed so it will try to draw too much current and the inverter will either trip or generate some magic smoke.

It works in reverse, a 250W toaster (if there was such a thing) will cheerfully run off a 750W inverter but not the other way round.
 
PaulC70 said:
Just to explain how flummoxed and frankly how stupid I am when it comes to this kind of thing, I know the toaster says its a 750 watt toaster, I don't know what that means. I know the inverter is rated at 200 watts, I also don't know what that means.
Click to expand...
I'd just go with first response (post #2) if I were you (ie No (y))

All other detail is irrelevant.
 
Just wait until the toasting has been achieved....having to decide in Jam or Marmalade or Butter or Marg...🤔😃😃🥳

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PaulC70 said:
Now put me in front of a newborn baby that has no pulse and isn't breathing and Im your man, but electrics etc? nope.
Click to expand...
Well my man, you’re more cleverer than you give yourself credit for, I think you would suss out the electrics way before we would suss out the child in difficulty, respect to you :notworthy2: :notworthy2:
 
Type 'camping toaster' into Amazon, eBay or Google. There are lots of options for doing toast over your gas hob.

71qRmLshjHL._AC_UF350,350_QL80_.jpg
 
PaulC70 said:
Just to explain how flummoxed and frankly how stupid I am when it comes to this kind of thing, I know the toaster says its a 750 watt toaster, I don't know what that means. I know the inverter is rated at 200 watts, I also don't know what that means.
I've no idea about what a watt, amp or volt is other than I have seen bulbs for certain watts, the more the brighter. Amps, I know what a 13 amp plug is and how to change one as I've seen it written on the fuse. Volts I know we tend to be 240v here in the uk and that america apparantly use 110 and that big burly construction workers will use 110v yellow boxes which are plugged into 240v so for some reason want less power for bigger machines.

As for what watts an amp is, how many volts a watt needs, how watts are used over how long or any of those calculation are, not a chuffing clue it's just not something my brain can handle.
Now put me in front of a newborn baby that has no pulse and isn't breathing and Im your man, but electrics etc? nope.
Click to expand...
Just think of it like a 2 inch hole and you have a 4 inch bit of wood, it ain't going to fit but if you had a 4 inch hole a 2 inch piece of wood would just fall thru easily.

I would speak to RogerIvy from offgrid to see what you need.

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Lets see if translating it into something most people understand helps?

Voltage is the equivalent of the size of an engine (or the Potential). The bigger the engine the more energy it can produce (Put simply and ignoring things like turbo chargers, fuel types, gears etc etc.). A 2 litre engine generates a lot more power than a 1 litre.

Amps is the equivalent of the speed at which you put fuel into that engine as controlled by the accelerator. If you are climbing a hill, you push down on the accelerator thus putting the fuel in faster, or you stall. If you think of that with water flowing in a river, the speed at which is flows is referred to as 'the current;; that is exactly what the Amps are measuring in with electricity. .

Watts is a combination of the two and is the equivalent of BHP (or power). Indeed engine power is often described in kW (thousands of Watts) as well as BHP. On a steep hill, you will go up faster with a bigger engine but also using a lot more fuel.

So a smaller engine trying to move the same weight up the same hill will use more fuel, whereas a large engine will climb it with more ease and with little extra fuel.

With electricity its actually a lot easier to calculate these things because there is a scientific 'law' that describes the relationship in that Potential in Volts, multiplied .by Current in Amps always equals the Power in Watts. That law applies equally to electrical power being generated, from storage (Your battery) or when being used. (your toaster). There are only two points of confusion:
1. The toaster needs electricity at a higher potential than you can get from your battery with is a nominal 12V. All the invertor does is convert the battery power from 12v to a nominal 230V, but for convenience lets stick with the 240V you prefer. However at 12V, the same Wattage device will pull roughly 20 times the current. So a while a 1000W device draws roughly 4 amps on mains but 80 Amps from your battery.
2. Whenever you convert any energy source from one type to another, or move it from one place to another you have losses (or inefficiencies). The invertor actually takes power to do the conversion as its taking in 12V DC and outputting 240V AC. (Don't worry about the DC/AC bit at the moment but anything coming out of a battery is DC, and most power is distributed to houses and premised using AC (For efficiency of transmission)). (Pylons generally are rated at 132,000Volts or 440,000volys, because that means you are passing less current over the conductor meaning it can be much smaller as you increase the voltage)

Builders use 110/120V tools purely for safety reasons. Medically, and depending on the resistance of the skin, you are roughly twice as likely to die with a 240V shock that a 120V shock, but the reality is the difference is much bigger than that given the amount of water generally found around building sites, and depends on the weakness. of the heart. However, the cables are usually quite big because cable size is dependent on the current being drawn so a 1000W tool will draw twice as many amps at the lower (but safer) voltage, so the conductors in the cable need to to be able to handle that higher current. It's all trade off's really. .

Hopefully this all makes sense. As always with electricity, if in doubt always ask for help. Electricity even at 12v can kill (albeit indirectly by fire rather than a shock) . If anyone suggests you get professional advice, make sure you do.
 
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meanders said:
Lets see if translating it into something most people understand helps?

Voltage is the equivalent of the size of an engine (or the Potential). The bigger the engine the more energy it can produce (Put simply and ignoring things like turbo chargers, fuel types, gears etc etc.). A 2 litre engine generates a lot more power than a 1 litre.

Amps is the equivalent of the speed at which you put fuel into that engine as controlled by the accelerator. If you are climbing a hill, you push down on the accelerator thus putting the fuel in faster, or you stall. If you think of that with water flowing in a river, the speed at which is flows is referred to as 'the current;; that is exactly what the Amps are measuring in with electricity. .

Watts is a combination of the two and is the equivalent of BHP (or power). Indeed engine power is often described in kW (thousands of Watts) as well as BHP. On a steep hill, you will go up faster with a bigger engine but also using a lot more fuel.

So a smaller engine trying to move the same weight up the same hill will use more fuel, whereas a large engine will climb it with more ease and with little extra fuel.

With electricity its actually a lot easier to calculate these things because there is a scientific 'law' that describes the relationship in that Potential in Volts, multiplied .by Current in Amps always equals the Power in Watts. That law applies equally to electrical power being generated, from storage (Your battery) or when being used. (your toaster). There are only two points of confusion:
1. The toaster needs electricity at a higher potential than you can get from your battery with is a nominal 12V. All the invertor does is convert the battery power from 12v to a nominal 230V, but for convenience lets stick with the 240V you prefer. However at 12V, the same Wattage device will pull roughly 20 times the current. So a while a 1000W device draws roughly 4 amps on mains but 80 Amps from your battery.
2. Whenever you convert any energy source from one type to another, or move it from one place to another you have losses (or inefficiencies). The invertor actually takes power to do the conversion as its taking in 12V DC and outputting 240V AC. (Don't worry about the DC/AC bit at the moment but anything coming out of a battery is DC, and most power is distributed to houses and premised using AC (For efficiency of transmission)). (Pylons generally are rated at 132,000Volts or 440,000volys, because that means you are passing less current over the conductor meaning it can be much smaller as you increase the voltage)
Builders use 110/120V tools purely for safety reasons. Medically, and depending on the resistance of the skin, you are roughly twice as likely to die with a 240V shock that a 120V shock, but the reality is the difference is much bigger than that given the amount of water generally found around building sites, and depends on the weakness. of the heart. However, the cables are usually quite big because cable size is dependent on the current being drawn so a 1000W tool will draw twice as many amps at the lower (but safer) voltage, so the conductors in the cable need to to be able to handle that higher current. It's all trade off's really. .

Hopefully this all makes sense. As always with electricity, if in doubt always ask for help. Electricity even at 12v can kill (albeit indirectly by fire rather than a shock) . If anyone suggests you get professional advice, make sure you do.
Click to expand...
I thought I understood things but I'm totally confused now🤣🤣🤣
 
Invest in Ridge Monkey or the cheaper NGT look alike - I slice of large sliced UK bread fits in it pretty well!
 
PaulC70. My niece is a recently retired special care sister, so I am well aware of the skills and dedication you need. Well done. (y)
 

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