Sorry for dumb question but......!!!! (I'm not really sorry, just crap at searching!)

[Taff015]

I'm going to Germany in August but transiting via the tunnel and France, Belgium etc

My van is 4.5t unladen. Do I need these Angles Mortes stickers or not?

I just found this:

"From January 1st 2021, all heavy vehicles in France (both goods and passenger transport vehicles) need to have a sign to inform others about their blind spots.

According to the decree published by the French Ministry on 20th November 2020, heavy vehicles over 3,5 tonnes driving in cities, have to be fitted with an infographic sticker, informing other road-users about their vehicle’s blind spots (Angles Morts) The stickers must be visible from the sides and the rear of the vehicles.

The Sticker Angles Morts on the rear of the vehicle must be placed on the right side between 0.9 and 1.5 meters from the ground. On both sides, the Stickers Angles Morts must be placed in the front (also between 0.9 and 1.5 meters from the ground).

The stickers must also be affixed to trailers and semi-trailers at the rear of the vehicle, on the right-hand side of the rear and at a height between 0.9 and 1.5 meters. On the semi-trailers, the stickers must be affixed on both sides too, within the first meter behind the fifth wheel (also at a height between 0.9 and 1.5 meters). "


The second paragraph states they must be used when driving in cities........ I intend to hit Calais and drive straight out of France as quickly as possible and not stop or visit any cities. Does this mean I wont need the stickers or will I get bent over by the French police as soon as my wheels hit the tarmac?

Or should I just buy the bloody things and remove after?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Minxy]

I'd ignore it, most MHs abroad weren't using them when we were there earlier this year.

 

[Diabalo]

I have just bought mine, 2 magnetic and 1 stickon for £11 off fleabay not worth chancing it imho

 

[Verteuil Man]

All the big motorhomes have them on as do all the trucks. For the sake of a few quid it's no worth getting done.

 

[Simon Meadwell]

Mine are in the glove box just in case a copper has nowt to do one day and mithers me.

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[Tombola]

Yes

 

[Taff015]

Consensus is spend the cash now..... Now, how to figure out sticking them on and then getting off again when I get home....

 

[A S R]

Personally I’d get some and stick them on. You may get away with it but you also may get pulled and a nice big fine for not displaying them. I’d rather avoid the fine and hassle.
Better safe than sorry.

 

[AndyPK]

Consensus is spend the cash now..... Now, how to figure out sticking them on and then getting off again when I get home....

Leave them on as a ‘badge of honour’!

 

[DDJC]

The website is not as clear as it might be.

I wrote to the French Vehicle Safety and Emissions Sub-Directorate, with a related issue about whether I needed Angles Mort stickers due to the length of my rig which is 7.15m + 2.5m, 500kg cargo trailer. I got this back:

Monsieur bonjour,

Ce poids de 3,5t est à considérer par véhicule et pas pour l'ensemble de véhicules. Si le véhicule à moteur à un PTAC de moins de 3,5t il n'aura pas d'obligation de signalisation angles morts, même si le PTAC de l'ensemble Véhicule tracteur + remorque dépasse 3,5t.

Cordialement.

La sous-direction de la sécurité et des émissions des véhicules.

Which says:

Hello sir,
This weight of 3.5t is to be considered per vehicle and not for the combination of vehicles. If the motor vehicle has a GVW of less than 3.5t, there will be no obligation to indicate blind spots, even if the GVW of the towing vehicle + trailer combination exceeds 3.5t.


Very clearly, if your Max Gross Weight, as recorded on the vehicle documentation is more than 3500kg, then you should wear the stickers.

Whether they need to be seen only in cities is not quite as clear. I have seen forum posts in France that say that the rule is being applied on all roads, not just urban. I have also seen the opposite, but the official website makes no distinction on rural or urban.

I would say yes, the law says that you should wear them as your van is over 3500kg, even though they are unsightly fugly things.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

For the odd chance of falling foul of a french/ germanpoliceman trying to get his quota in for the day it's not really not worth it not to put them on. They are not expensive.

 

[pappajohn]

They know the answer but do the gendarmes on the street?

 

[Spriddler]

Or should I just buy the bloody things and remove after?

Just stick 'em on and stop worrying. They're not dear so treat yourself.

 

[pappajohn]

If the motor vehicle has a GVW of less than 3.5t, there will be no obligation to indicate blind spots, even if the GVW of the towing vehicle + trailer combination exceeds 3.5t.

This kind of response makes a mockery of the rules.
The very same van could have a gross of 3500kg or 5000kg or any other weight within reason yet under 3500kg it doesn't need them.
A 3500kg van can and will do just as much damage as a 5000kg van.
The law should be based on peripheral vision, not weight

 

[dunnah01]

If you look like a regular 3500kg van then leave them off so you could go down the many sub 3.5t roads that the sat nav may decide to send you down

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[Taff015]

If you look like a regular 3500kg van then leave them off so you could go down the many sub 3.5t roads that the sat nav may decide to send you down

I don’t, I look like a massive van! Luckily I’m LHD so at least I’ll be on the right side of the road!!

 

[Lenny HB]

We are 4.5t keep them in the glove box been through France ½ doz times since it came in.

 

[WESTY66]

Ive just done the France Belgium Germany Austria Slovenia Croatia Slovenia Italy Austria Italy Switzerland Germany Belgium France thing! I have a set IN the van but not put them on and at 5 tons the French police at the Belgian border didn’t look bothered I am also LHD. I try to spend as little time as I can in France, but Gravelines is a nice stop before the tunnel on the way home

 

[Verteuil Man]

This is copied from CAMC website from the advice section on driving in Europe.

Vehicles exceeding 3,500kg in France

All motorhomes and caravans (not combined with towing vehicle) with a total weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes must have a sticker showing the position of the blind spots, visible on the sides and at the rear of the vehicle. These regulations are in force since 1 January 2021.

The stickers:

• Must be visible from the sides and rear of the vehicle, and at a height between 0.90 and 1.50 meters from the ground.
• Can be glued, painted on the bodywork or affixed by riveting or any other means of fixing.
• Must be placed so as to be visible at all times.
• Must not obstruct the visibility of the vehicle's registration plates and various lights and signalling devices as well as the driver's field of vision.
• Must comply with the model set by the decree of 5 January 2021.
• Foreign vehicles passing through France are also subject to this signing obligation.

To view the stickers and more information, please visit https://www.securite-routiere.gouv.fr

Note: There are no specific blind spot stickers for motorhomes or caravans so you can use either of the stickers listed on the link above. There is no official distribution point for the stickers at present, but these can be purchased online at most big retailers (Amazon, ebay etc.).

 

[Southdowners]

We're 7.5 tonne and don't have them.

I emailed the French department concerned and they emailed a link to the initial statement given at the time. It said that the signs are required in cities for goods and public transport vehicles.

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[rosalan]

In Spain at the moment and notice most but not all heavier vans do have the wretched ugly 'Morte' stickers on. almost all Germans do. many French seem not to. Do not forget your 'Crit aire' stickers to block your vision.

 

[Northernraider]

I might put a set in the glovebox beside the uk sticker incase i meet a bored gendarme but wont ever be sticking them on the van otherwise.

 

[namwaldog]

Certainly not conclusive evidence, but ..... We were on a THS at Otley a few nights ago and there was a French registered MH pitched in front of us.
Looked like a run of the mill 3500 coachbuilt (ie, not tag axle, twin wheel etc) Overheard the occupant speaking English so perhaps an Ex-pat visiting England?

He was displaying a sticker on the rear. Perhaps he lived in, or frequently visited, a large city in France?

Meant to ask him about stickers at some time during our stay, but the opportunity was missed.

Curiously, he was also carrying his 2CV on a trailer but that's perhaps for another thread

 

[Taff015]

In Spain at the moment and notice most but not all heavier vans do have the wretched ugly 'Morte' stickers on. almost all Germans do. many French seem not to. Do not forget your 'Crit aire' stickers to block your vision.

Crit Aire?? I have the German sticker for emissions.

 

[Wildbill]

Ok sume of the advice has been leave them In the glove box.
What if sume one dose get a scrape or crushed by you van.
If you are over 3.5 tone looks like you have to display them we don't like Egor the pole or Freddy the frog or Herman the German coming over braking our laws so why should we brake there's
Bill

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[Lenny HB]

Crit Aire?? I have the German sticker for emissions.

It much good in France that's why you need a Crit Aire.

 

[Madcaravanner]

I'd ignore it, most MHs abroad weren't using them when we were there earlier this year.

Yes they were even the Germans we visited France AND Spain almost all trucks and most motorhomes over 3.5 t were using them except a few English vans though 2 that we saw were on the hardshoulder with a Gendarme talking to them -

 

[DDJC]

This kind of response makes a mockery of the rules.
The very same van could have a gross of 3500kg or 5000kg or any other weight within reason yet under 3500kg it doesn't need them.
A 3500kg van can and will do just as much damage as a 5000kg van.
The law should be based on peripheral vision, not weight

It doesn't make a mockery of the rules, it merely illustrates that the guy who designed the rules knows dickall about road safety around long and heavy vehicles. Clearly these were rushed out without anyone actually looking at them critically.

I've made this point before. My rig is just over 10m long and the total train weight is a smidge under 4000kg. With a trailer, I am articulated, and so a daft cyclist could get caught between the bus and the trailer. But French law says that I don't need a sticker because the bus is listed on the V5C as being 3500kg.

But if you have a 6m long bus and up-plate it to 3650, then you have to have a sticker.

Bonkers.