Some will not like this.

[Paulypaul]

Offensive and ill judged comment. An apology would do better than your later comments trying to justify this one!

Apology to who? And I'm not attempting to justifying anything?

I'd like to know on what facts your assessment of 'some, not all' (a bit different to 'your average', btw) is based. After 38 years in Law Enforcement I think I'm able to make a reasoned judgement

After 38 years of service I'm sure you are well aware of what gives rise to criticism of the Police. I'm afraid the days of the Police automatically being respected are well and truly over. Respect is earned.
A friend of ours who is a recently retired traffic cop (33 yrs service), told me that the service in general has forgotten that they "Police by consent" and he admits that a majority of the force today have no in depth knowledge or understanding of PACE, and subsequently alot of officers make it up as they go along, without any firm directives from their commanding officer.

Good job it's an open forum and it's also a good job that this wasn't being taken down in evidence, cause your pocket notebook may have reflected some out of context facts....I wonder if that ever happens with the Police?

I dont know you and I wouldn't dare criticise you personally but I am entitled to criticise the service based on the knowledge I have. That's the thing about open forums. It allows debate and I'm sure no one who posts sets out to offend anyone personally.

No doubt your retort will be along the lines of I should be doing this and not saying that, but I'm afraid you won't change my perceptions.

 

[Skez]

Apology to who? And I'm not attempting to justifying anything?



After 38 years of service I'm sure you are well aware of what gives rise to criticism of the Police. I'm afraid the days of the Police automatically being respected are well and truly over. Respect is earned.
A friend of ours who is a recently retired traffic cop (33 yrs service), told me that the service in general has forgotten that they "Police by consent" and he admits that a majority of the force today have no in depth knowledge or understanding of PACE, and subsequently alot of officers make it up as they go along, without any firm directives from their commanding officer.

Good job it's an open forum and it's also a good job that this wasn't being taken down in evidence, cause your pocket notebook may have reflected some out of context facts....I wonder if that ever happens with the Police?

I dont know you and I wouldn't dare criticise you personally but I am entitled to criticise the service based on the knowledge I have. That's the thing about open forums. It allows debate and I'm sure no one who posts sets out to offend anyone personally.

No doubt your retort will be along the lines of I should be doing this and not saying that, but I'm afraid you won't change my perceptions.

Not at all! We shall just agree to differ. Have a nice day.

 

[Paulypaul]

Not at all! We shall just agree to differ. Have a nice day.

You too, let's hope we all get through this unscathed.

 

[busby]

I agree. A blatant disregard of advice designed to protect us all is completely out of order.

My point was purely that there are some, not all, but some, members of the police force who do not have the capacity to think outside the box or show any common sense. The worry is that the "some" is rapidly increasing in numbers as coppers ain't what they used to be, and I know many ex cops who are quite honestly disgusted at the way the service is today.

These are very testing times for all of us and we dont need the idiots ignoring guidelines and placing people in jeopardy, but we also don't really need coppers making life unnecessarily difficult at the same time. Hence my referral to common sense.

It would be nice to see policemen around here,,good or bad.We never see any..BUSBY.

 

[tribalbrit]

It would be nice to see policemen around here,,good or bad.We never see any..BUSBY.

Do you not watch Police Interceptors? There always in and around Derby, can't think why

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[Deneb]

At some point, in the next few weeks, I'll need to go down to Cornwall and make sure all is OK with my Mum and her carers (all isolated)

Normally I'd stay in the Granny flat at the bottom of the garden, however my niece has taken up residence as she has been living in LA and is now effectively trapped in the UK with no place to live.

My Sister is currently trapped in NZ, but her house has her son and friend living there as they are also homeless.

So when I go down the M5/A30 I'll be in the motor home and I'll be parking in the driveway (Which is well away from the house)
I'll leave it as long as I can, but it's weeks not months we are talking about.

Sorry, I really don't understand this at all. We all need to not make non-essential journeys and none of us should be visiting or being in close physical contact with anyone from a different household except in an emergency; particularly so if they are elderly, vulnerable or have other issues that could make them more susceptible to serious problems if they were to contract Covid-19.

Your Mum and her carers are all isolated, so she's not alone, has help and is avoiding contact risk from outside her home. Your niece is also on the premises. Even if your Mum or the other occupants of her home don't have an internet connection, surely someone has a phone?

What are you going to achieve by driving down there, as surely anything other than standing at least 2 metres away from the doorstep is simply going to increase their risk and yours (and possibly ultimately many other peoples')?

Unless you're intending to camp on the driveway and not leave your van under any circumstances for 14 days before entering the house?

 

[stevewagner]

And what will they do with the "travellers " ( gypos ) if caught ? That"l be interesting !

The term 'Gypos' is derogatory and should not be used on this site.

 

[CathR]

I find this a difficult one. Like maison I'm going to keep driving my campervan around. I need to keep the battery going. If it goes flat I've got no way of charging it. I live on my own, I will get in my campervan on my own, drive around and come back home. No contact with anybody. The only risk I run is if I break down. I think we've got to give people the credit for making their own decisions. Or have we got to the stage where we can't rely on people to make sensible decisions for themselves and we have to have draconian enforcement.

 

[Reallyretired]

I must say that video calls are wonderful never felt the need to use them before. Not quite the same as meeting in person but a good substitute.

 

[Reallyretired]

I find this a difficult one. Like maison I'm going to keep driving my campervan around. I need to keep the battery going. If it goes flat I've got no way of charging it. I live on my own, I will get in my campervan on my own, drive around and come back home. No contact with anybody. The only risk I run is if I break down. I think we've got to give people the credit for making their own decisions. Or have we got to the stage where we can't rely on people to make sensible decisions for themselves and we have to have draconian enforcement.

If your campervan is at home why cant you charge the battery there. If you haven't got a battery charger Amazon will deliver you one for less than the cost of the diesel you will use.

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[mitzimad]

anyone looking to keep in contact with family i can recomend houseparty we had a three way video chat with the kids last night we used the chrome extension just google it

 

[gus-lopez]

Unnecessary journeys are bad.

True but where I used to live the quickest way to the supermarket was motorway on at J27 & off 4 miles away at J28.

few up here the highest being 102 mph!

If the road is at present empty what is the problem. Apart from the fact that they would tie up emergency workers if they crashed ? So just leave them to die if they do.

If you mean the police I think they ought to have more power at the moment. I think the car doing over 100mph ought to be seized and crushed

I think the police 'officer' in the clip I posted yesterday should be beaten until he gets some common sense but that isn't going to happen either.

Offensive and ill judged comment. An apology would do better than your later comments trying to justify this one!

Why ? I used to deal on a daily basis with 40 or 50 from a local division. The most hypocritical lot with no common sense or understanding you'd ever have the misfortune to come across. & the more senior ones not afraid to try intimidation if they thought they could get away with it.

 

[Lofty1]

Please support our police, Yes some may be over zealous but should law and order fail the alternative are troops who are not peacekeepers and could be armed, history shows that this never ends well for some.

 

[The Lobster]

Quite an interesting discussion here about why Government attempts to shut-down enjoyment of the countryside are completely irrational... http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2020/03/27/covid-19-outdoor-recreation-and-our-national-parks/

 

[romany]

There will be plenty of time to pull the police and government back to diplomacy when this is all over unfortunately there is no room for diplomacy, following the law to the letter avoids the he didn't get told off why did I (you know the stuff normally reserved for primary school playgrounds) do I think the policeman was over the top yes but basically he was correct and under the new legislation could have arrested her for disobeying an officer, these are not normal times don't expect everyone to act normally they are all learning on the job so to speak.
I think its a pathetic scenario to be arguing about well we are in the middle of a pandemic that has already killed over a 1000 and is expected to kill 20,000.
unfortunately some of the people are going to be told what to do because they cant obey rules even when peoples lives depend on it and they will have to like it or lump it or face the consequences

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[Deneb]

Quite an interesting discussion here about why Government attempts to shut-down enjoyment of the countryside are completely irrational... http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2020/03/27/covid-19-outdoor-recreation-and-our-national-parks/

Unfortunately that horse has already bolted in some parts of the UK, and unless you implement full quarantine and movement restrictions around those areas it is too late.

Too many people totally ignoring social distancing measures in my area until last Monday when the more rigorous restrictions, plus realisation that three people had died in an around our village over the weekend, seemed to be a wake up call. But the local hospitals are already flooded with patients, and more will follow over the next few weeks as people who had been behaving as if nothing was happening until Monday start to suffer symptoms and pass them on to others.

There were queues of vehicles waiting to get into local beauty spots last weekend and people in groups walking and frolicking everywhere. And still a small minority seem to think they're special and can bend the rules when it suits them

The one's posting on our local Facebook group last week that it's only the flu and won't affect them anyway because it only kills old people, so they're going to continue going to the pubs, have all gone very quiet since one of their number died yesterday, and a 21 year old in High Wycombe with no known underlying health conditions also passed away earlier this week.

All too late though...

Edit - and the later part of your quoted article, which I hadn't read entirely before I composed the above, shows that the author has a complete lack of understanding of infection control and the underlying reasons for the closures. He wants other people to put themselves at risk by keep cleaning public toilets so he can carry on having a jolly! And he wants people to be vetted before being allowed to enter those areas - well, how do you vet or screen people for Covid-19 when they can be infected and highly infectious for up to 5 days without showing any symptoms, the period when it has been suggested that 4 out of every 5 new infections are happening?

There is very little risk in being in a park or other open areas if there are few people around and strict social distancing is being practised (but this may need to be substantially more than 2 metres on a windy day for example) and the mass idiocy in various National Parks and other open areas up to the end of last week shows that many of the public appear to have no common sense at all and simply can't be trusted to look out for themselves or, more worryingly others, without some form of draconian restrictions.

 

[Wh05apk]

Or have we got to the stage where we can't rely on people to make sensible decisions for themselves and we have to have draconian enforcement.

Yes I think we have, we are at the start of a global pandemic which will kill millions, yet still people think it necessary to go out for all sorts of trivial reasons, the sooner we all stay at home and stop the spread the sooner we can start getting back to normality, as has been said get a charger off Amazon and use that, stay at home don't risk picking up anything or breaking down/having an accident or anything else which will need outside support.
People seem to think the rules apply to everyone else except themselves, and they can do as they wish.

 

[The Wino]

Quite an interesting discussion here about why Government attempts to shut-down enjoyment of the countryside are completely irrational... http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2020/03/27/covid-19-outdoor-recreation-and-our-national-parks/

The bloke makes little sense. First he says if we had more testing from the start and contact tracing like south korea we might have avoided a lockdown which is probably true then says we have missed that boat true then suggests we let people roam around all over the place even though he says we have missed the chance. He also uses China as an example of just limiting the lockdown to the areas where there's infection if theres enough testing which in the UK at the moment is pretty much everywhere judging by the figures for positive tests. He then has a rant at the police for stopping people moving around seemingly having forgotten that he's just mentioned China as an example.......has he seen what the police there were doing!!!!
Doesn't add up at all to me

 

[Otter Spotter]

Sgt plod isn't complying with social distancing is he......well, enough said

What a plonker, Sargent needs to get a life or lose his rank as he used no common sense or good judgement in this incident

 

[tonyidle]

I think the police 'officer' in the clip I posted yesterday should be beaten until he gets some common sense but that isn't going to happen either.

If you mean the one arguing about spray chalking lines on the pavement it does say later on in the article that he was given a talking to (I'm paraphrasing).

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[F.M.C.Fourier]

Some people commenting here have missed the point about this. They were stopping CARS as well as motorhomes. They were not picking on motorhomes. The argument is about whether it is fair and reasonable to stop people travelling generally, not specifically about them stopping motorhomes.

If the people had no good reason to travel - essentially (though I agree not necessarily exclusively) to go shopping or to visit a vulnerable person - it is right that they should be censured and sent home.

 

[Headrush]

There is very little risk in being in a park or other open areas if there are few people around and strict social distancing is being practised (but this may need to be substantially more than 2 metres on a windy day for example) and the mass idiocy in various National Parks and other open areas up to the end of last week shows that many of the public appear to have no common sense at all and simply can't be trusted to look out for themselves or, more worryingly others, without some form of draconian restrictions.

There is a reason for the 2m rule. The primary way of getting infected is by someone coughing or sneezing on you. The virus is carried on relatively large globules when it's ejected. The absolute maximum they can reach is about 3m and they drop out of the air as they travel. Even in a strong wind its very unlikely enough would hit you at 2m to cause infection.

Just walking past somebody in the street does not put you at risk unless they directly cough or sneeze on you, right in your face or on your hands. As long as you don't touch each other either, you will be fine.

This shows the pointlessness of wearing a mask in the street, especially when you are the lone person in a car or truck. It's not "in the air"!

Also, I've seen people misusing the term "superspreader".
This doesn't simply mean they've infected lots of people. An ordinary spreader can do that. A superspreader is someone who sheds a large viral load in their mucus causing them to be more dangerous than a normal person. They may very well meet more people as well, but that's not why they're a superspreader.

 

[Bubba]

I would think there is less chance of catching covid19 in a park then on the tube train. And according to London's illustrious mayor there is no chance of catching it on the tube. And he listens to experts. (there's always a first time)

 

[Nigel-ph]

From the reports so far it is clear that driving a motorhome during the lockdown makes you an obvious target for the police and a source of annoyance for locals. That’s because the assumption is you are on a jolly or trying to escape from a virus hotspot into the countryside. As long as you are not doing this and can prove you are on an essential journey the police should let you continue (and the locals will still be annoyed). The problem is that some don’t seem to understand what essential means and, to be honest, neither do I fully. The government should spell it out much more clearly than at present rather than leave it up to individuals and police to come up with their own interpretations.

 

[Jonny1953]

Problem with this and its just a thought maybe the motor homer was home and looking for somewhere to park up

Then all he would have to do is show his driving licence to Plod with his home address on it, reading the article he obviously had no good reason to be travelling so Plod are correct in sending him home

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[Deneb]

There is a reason for the 2m rule. The primary way of getting infected is by someone coughing or sneezing on you. The virus is carried on relatively large globules when it's ejected. The absolute maximum they can reach is about 3m and they drop out of the air as they travel. Even in a strong wind its very unlikely enough would hit you at 2m to cause infection.

According to a recent paper published on JAMA - "Turbulent Gas Clouds and Respiratory Pathogen Emissions" by Lydia Bourouiba, PhD, Massachusetts Institute of Technology , recent research suggests that the lifetime of a respiratory droplet can be in a range of minutes and that peak exhalation distance can be up to 7 - 8 metres in certain conditions.

But my primary point was that when idiots gather in such numbers that they are, for instance, queuing nose to tail on various paths up Welsh mountains or walking in large groups along sea fronts closely behind and passing within inches of similar groups walking in the opposite direction as seen last weekend despite advice to the contrary, risks however remote they might appear, must increase substantially.

It has also been claimed that Covid-19 droplets have been detected in ventilation systems.

I don't know the truth of that, and have no claim to be an expert, but what I can tell you is that my friend's father-in-law died in our local hospital from Covid-19 two days ago, after being admitted to a non-Covid ward a couple of days previously for a fairly routine but necessary life-saving procedure, and that staff in the same hospital who my wife is contact with as she worked with them until recently, told her yesterday "Don't come to XXXXX hospital for any reason if you can help it, it's currently not worth the risk unless you have no option but to be admitted".

 

[BOWHOUSE52]

As anyone thought the bloke that was turned around in Devon Had heard that it was easy to get toilet rolls at Asda in honiton because all you greedy B------s in Brum had stock piled ???

 

[Jonny1953]

I take it then that you don`t know for sure if they fitted any of the exemptions ?
They may well have had good reason to be there, I don`t know, and I`m guessing you don`t either.

Stay home stay safe - but don`t accuse others of being irresponsible without knowledge of all the facts please.

Surely if he had good reason to be there and was complying with the current guidelines then Plod would have let him continue, the fact that he was sent "home" shows that he had no reason

 

[Wissel]

From the reports so far it is clear that driving a motorhome during the lockdown makes you an obvious target for the police and a source of annoyance for locals. That’s because the assumption is you are on a jolly or trying to escape from a virus hotspot into the countryside. As long as you are not doing this and can prove you are on an essential journey the police should let you continue (and the locals will still be annoyed). The problem is that some don’t seem to understand what essential means and, to be honest, neither do I fully. The government should spell it out much more clearly than at present rather than leave it up to individuals and police to come up with their own interpretations.

I had to drive yesterday (in motorhome as my home and only vehicle) to get a weeks food and gas (managed to get two weeks worth, so no movement now for a fortnight). I programmed the entire journey into my satnav, so I had something to show if pulled over.

There was a large Police presence, but I wasn't stopped. Might have helped that I was by myself as no need for both of us to travel to a shop.

 

[gus-lopez]

problem is that some don’t seem to understand what essential means and, to be honest, neither do I fully.

Have you nothing whatsoever left to eat ? = good reason .
Anything else isn't as they've cancelled any hospital appts.

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