Solar problem

Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Posts
160
Likes collected
216
Location
England, UK
Funster No
59,572
MH
Niesmann Arto 88EK
Exp
Since 2005
A couple of weeks ago I noticed the amount of solar power my panels were pulling in had diminished significantly (looking at the history graph via Victron Connect app). Some days I got nothing other days a small amount (even though it has been sunny).

Today when I looked at the app I see this message:

IMG_1903.png

IMG_1854.png


I decided to use a multimeter to test the panels directly and both are reading 0v. I took the same reading at the Victron controller and got a zero also. It seems odd to me that both panels would fail either at the same time or in very quick succession. Am I missing something here or do I conclude the panels have had it and need to be replaced? They were factory fitted about two and a half years ago.
 
Disconnect the panels from the controller and check the voltage in sunlight they should be 20 to 23 volts. If you still get zero you will need to disconnect the panels from each other and check individually.

If you get 20v and it goes to zero when you connect them to the controller it could be a controller fault.

You could also try disconnecting the panels and the battery from the controller, then reconnect the battery first then the panels, that will reset the controller if it's thrown a wobbly.
 
Disconnect the panels from the controller and check the voltage in sunlight they should be 20 to 23 volts. If you still get zero you will need to disconnect the panels from each other and check individually.

If you get 20v and it goes to zero when you connect them to the controller it could be a controller fault.

You could also try disconnecting the panels and the battery from the controller, then reconnect the battery first then the panels, that will reset the controller if it's thrown a wobbly.
Thanks Lenny HB I did disconnect them and checked them individually and still got a zero (reasonably bright day here).
 
You haven't got the controller switched off in the battery settings in victron connect?
 
Thanks Lenny HB I did disconnect them and checked them individually and still got a zero (reasonably bright day here).
Worth checking the panel side of any diodes / connections fitted just in case one of those has failed.
I had two nearly new panels fail in 2018 and both went tits up at the same time, unlucky but it can happen. One of the replacements has just failed on our recent trip to Scotland so two new ones have just been ordered, just what the bank account didn't need.
Good luck.
 
A couple of weeks ago I noticed the amount of solar power my panels were pulling in had diminished significantly (looking at the history graph via Victron Connect app). Some days I got nothing other days a small amount (even though it has been sunny).

Today when I looked at the app I see this message:

View attachment 774843
View attachment 774667

I decided to use a multimeter to test the panels directly and both are reading 0v. I took the same reading at the Victron controller and got a zero also. It seems odd to me that both panels would fail either at the same time or in very quick succession. Am I missing something here or do I conclude the panels have had it and need to be replaced? They were factory fitted about two and a half years ago.
You also have the virtual load setting set to on normally this is set to off.
 
You also have the virtual load setting set to on normally this is set to off.
That setting seems to relate to Load output which is set to 'BatteryLife' - I haven't changed this since I got the panels. I've tried turning this off but it doesn't make any difference.
 
Has a connector come loose on the roof. Are they still there!
All the connections going into the van look good. Where the cable connects to the panel the cables are sealed in a sort of white sealant so it's hard to see how there's been any movement there but because of the sealant I can't easily check.
 
Worth checking the panel side of any diodes / connections fitted just in case one of those has failed.
I had two nearly new panels fail in 2018 and both went tits up at the same time, unlucky but it can happen. One of the replacements has just failed on our recent trip to Scotland so two new ones have just been ordered, just what the bank account didn't need.
Good luck.
It's good to know it can happen then! I can't see any diodes, as mentioned on an earlier reply on the panel side the cables enter a box which is full of sealant so hard to see what's going on at that end.

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It's good to know it can happen then! I can't see any diodes, as mentioned on an earlier reply on the panel side the cables enter a box which is full of sealant so hard to see what's going on at that end.
A pic or two may help here, where are you measuring the voltage @ 0? Poking the probes into the cables or at a junction point? To be sure what is happening each panel needs to be isolated and then checked but I appreciate the box full of sealant will not be ideal to take apart.
 
A pic or two may help here, where are you measuring the voltage @ 0? Poking the probes into the cables or at a junction point? To be sure what is happening each panel needs to be isolated and then checked but I appreciate the box full of sealant will not be ideal to take apart.
I've taken measurements at the junction point where the two panels are joined. I then isolated the two panels and took individual measurements by poking the probes into the cables (at the point where they enter the junction box), always getting 0v. The only thing I can't do is take a reading where the cables leave the panels as they come out of the box on the panel surrounded by sealant. The cables are set firm in there so it's hard to believe they've become dislodged - on both panels.

As a control I tested the multimeter on the Victron controller at the battery cable in point and it reads 12.9v so I believe the multimeter is correctly configured and working.
 
Normally the box on the panel the lid is screwed, can you lift the panels to access the box?
 
It's got to be a bad connection or a blow fuse between the panels and the controller, have you check for a fuse/ switch between the panels and controller? If all okay there have you checked all mc4 connectors are push home firmly.
 
Most panels have a diode across the output if a diode in one panel has gone short circuit that would cause zero output.

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I've taken measurements at the junction point where the two panels are joined. I then isolated the two panels and took individual measurements by poking the probes into the cables (at the point where they enter the junction box), always getting 0v. The only thing I can't do is take a reading where the cables leave the panels as they come out of the box on the panel surrounded by sealant. The cables are set firm in there so it's hard to believe they've become dislodged - on both panels.

As a control I tested the multimeter on the Victron controller at the battery cable in point and it reads 12.9v so I believe the multimeter is correctly configured and working.
That is pointing to failed panels then unless it is something silly. You are checking it all correctly, including checking the meter first! I guess the hunt for new panels starts now?
 
It's got to be a bad connection or a blow fuse between the panels and the controller, have you check for a fuse/ switch between the panels and controller? If all okay there have you checked all mc4 connectors are push home firmly.
I'm testing the panels directly so a fuse between the panels and controller would not come in to it unless I've misunderstood. There are no MC4 connectors, the cables from the panels are wired together via terminal block in a junction box on the roof. I've disconnected them and tested each panel in isolation and still nothing. I'll get up on the roof again this afternoon and take another look and some pics.
 
They are flexible and yes I have heard the same.
OK, My guess is that is your problem. I would suggest the easiest and quickest way is to replace them with rigids. If you can DIY it will not cost a lot because you have all the electrical equipment already. 100W rigid panels go for about £100 each and 200W for £165. That is from Craigsolar via Amazon a few months ago.

I would not recommend the plastic fixings. Instead buy some 50mm x 50mm aluminium angle to fix them onto the roof (lots for sale on eBay). Attach the angle to the panel with pop rivets so that they are flush at the top and that will leave enough of a gap between the roof and the bottom of the panel to provide ventilation under the panel, so that it does not overheat. It looks neater and takes up less space if you fix the angle so that the bottom leg is underneath the panel. Then stick the aluminium onto the roof using Sikaflex 291i, which is designed for fixing aluminium, plastic and GRP in marine conditions. Make sure you have at least 2 or 3mm thickness of of Sikaflex and give it a few days to cure before driving.

Edit: just to say that all of that advice has come to me from other funsters, and mainly Lenny HB

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Last edited:
OK, My guess is that is your problem. I would suggest the easiest and quickest way is to replace them with rigids. If you can DIY it will not cost a lot because you have all the electrical equipment already. 100W rigid panels go for about £100 each and 200W for £165. That is from Craigsolar via Amazon a few months ago.

I would not recommend the plastic fixings. Instead buy some 50mm x 50mm aluminium angle to fix them onto the roof (lots for sale on eBay). Attach the angle to the panel with pop rivets so that they are flush at the top and that will leave enough of a gap between the roof and the bottom of the panel to provide ventilation under the panel, so that it does not overheat. It looks neater and takes up less space if you fix the angle so that the bottom leg is underneath the panel. Then stick the aluminium onto the roof using Sikaflex 291i, which is designed for fixing aluminium, plastic and GRP in marine conditions. Make sure you have at least 2 or 3mm thickness of of Sikaflex and give it a few days to cure before driving.

Edit: just to say that all of that advice has come to me from other funsters, and mainly Lenny HB
Thanks, all good advice. I was thinking the DIY route as I've heard of too many dealer bodge jobs. The big question is do I remove the existing panels or just cover them over. I'd prefer to remove them but one fitter I spoke to said it's possible that in removing them you might damage the roof.
 
Thanks, all good advice. I was thinking the DIY route as I've heard of too many dealer bodge jobs. The big question is do I remove the existing panels or just cover them over. I'd prefer to remove them but one fitter I spoke to said it's possible that in removing them you might damage the roof.
I can't really answer that because I have never tried it. I guess others who tried would be better able to answer that.

One thing for sure is that I would want to remove at least part of them to make sure that all of the aluminium leg is glued directly to the roof rather than the flexible panel.

And it is important to make sure that the surfaces you are bonding to are properly prepared and roughed up. In that case it will be essential to remove all of the adhesive used to fix the flexible panels.
 
Normally the box on the panel the lid is screwed, can you lift the panels to access the box?
This how it looks when I lift the lid:
IMG_1911.jpeg


And this is the junction box, no fuses inline that I can see:

IMG_1913.jpeg
 
They are flexible and yes I have heard the same.
Now if you had told us that in the first place, we could have all had a good laugh and known what the problem was straight away. :LOL:
I expect one panel failed some time ago and the other one has just gone.

Well done Peter peterc10 for thinking of that one.

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I see you have an N&B so is the roof aluminum with a GRP panel stuck on top like Hymers?
If so should be possible to remove the panels without too much damage but it will be a long time consuming job that will drive you nuts.
 
Happy ending to this as Niesmann have agreed to replace the panels under warranty as they were only a couple of years old.
But if they replace them with flexibles you will probably have the same problem after a couple of years. Suggest rigids with fittings that will maintain an air gap all round so as to provide ventilation.
 
But if they replace them with flexibles you will probably have the same problem after a couple of years. Suggest rigids with fittings that will maintain an air gap all round so as to provide ventilation.
The panels are coming from the factory in Germany. I've no idea what they are but I know from a previous enquiry that Niesmann have discontinued the Wattstunde ones I have, hopefully for something a bit more reliable.

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