Solar / EBL question

[Hettyhymer]

Hi all. I am after a bit of advice. I have recently bought an old Hymer. It is a 1997 Hymer S630 (Merc). Having never had any electronics experience I am a bit unsure.

I would like to replace the 100w solar panel with 2 new 200w (each) panels and bi-pass the EBL (EBL 105-3). If I connect these to a new Votronic MPP 440 controller and then directly to the leisure battery (and not use the solar port on the EBL block "D) but leave everything else on the EBL as before, am I going to cause any issues or are there other things that will need to be done?

Later on, I will probs need to install a B2B charger and disable the split relay in the EBL, look at upgrading the battery to a LiFePO4, but for the time being, I am happy to leave the VSR as is (if that is not a problem). Baby steps!!

 

[GeoffnDee]

I think that 400w may be over the max limit for the EBL solar feed , so you need to go direct from the controller to the leisure battery, if the solar controller is not duel output to also charge the starter battery you could fit a Vanbitz battery master to keep the starter battery charged as well as the leisure battery from solar.

 

[Jev88]

As above, onboard systems are usually limited to solar wattage they can handle. Best get a quality MPPT direct for m solar and then to battery.

 

[autorouter]

I would like to replace the 100w solar panel with 2 new 200w (each) panels and bi-pass the EBL (EBL 105-3). If I connect these to a new Votronic MPP 440 controller and then directly to the leisure battery (and not use the solar port on the EBL block "D) but leave everything else on the EBL as before, am I going to cause any issues or are there other things that will need to be done?

That's the best way to do it. The solar port on the EBL is limited to about 15A, and your 400W of solar would well exceed that on a good day. The only minor point is that the shunt inside the EBL will not then measure the solar amps going into the battery, but as long as you know that, it's not a problem.

Later on, I will probs need to install a B2B charger and disable the split relay in the EBL, look at upgrading the battery to a LiFePO4, but for the time being, I am happy to leave the VSR as is (if that is not a problem).

The split charge relay will need to be disabled if you install a B2B. If the B2B is about 30A or less, then you can wire it straight through the split charge relay, so no need to disable it in that case. You should be aware that this EBL 105 is an early version of an EBL, and does NOT have separate wiring for the split charge relay and other items like the fridge, as seen in all later EBLs. So any advice about just removing the starter battery fuse or disconnecting the starter battery feed to the EBL will not be valid for the EBL 105. There are always workarounds for this, but it's not so straightforward.

 

[Manic]

When I fitted 2x100watt panels on my Hymer I wired the Votronic regulator to the battery terminals on the back of the EBL.

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[ChrisL]

I'm not familiar with votronic solar controllers, but with Victron ones the controller needs to be connected to the leisure battery first before the solar panels are connected to it, this is so the controller knows what voltage batteries it is supplying, 12/24 volt.

 

[Lenny HB]

If you are going to fit Lithium later go for a Victron MPPT Solar controller the Votronic 430 is often prrobmatical with Lithium.

If you fit a B2B it's best not to run through an old EBL, relay contacts are often carboned up and will drop the current.

 

[autorouter]

When I fitted 2x100watt panels on my Hymer I wired the Votronic regulator to the battery terminals on the back of the EBL.

That's OK for 200W but for 400W the wiring and 30A fuse would not be enough.

 

[Hettyhymer]

If you are going to fit Lithium later go for a Victron MPPT Solar controller the Votronic 430 is often prrobmatical with Lithium.

If you fit a B2B it's best not to run through an old EBL, relay contacts are often carboned up and will drop the current.

Thank you for your advice. I have now ordered a Victron solar controller as at some point in the future I will consider a lithium battery. Not sure how to disable the VSR in the EBL or what to do regarding the AES fridge power supply (whilst driving) once the VSR has been disabled.

 

[Hettyhymer]

I'm not familiar with votronic solar controllers, but with Victron ones the controller needs to be connected to the leisure battery first before the solar panels are connected to it, this is so the controller knows what voltage batteries it is supplying, 12/24 volt.

Good advice. Thank you.

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[Hettyhymer]

That's the best way to do it. The solar port on the EBL is limited to about 15A, and your 400W of solar would well exceed that on a good day. The only minor point is that the shunt inside the EBL will not then measure the solar amps going into the battery, but as long as you know that, it's not a problem.

The split charge relay will need to be disabled if you install a B2B. If the B2B is about 30A or less, then you can wire it straight through the split charge relay, so no need to disable it in that case. You should be aware that this EBL 105 is an early version of an EBL, and does NOT have separate wiring for the split charge relay and other items like the fridge, as seen in all later EBLs. So any advice about just removing the starter battery fuse or disconnecting the starter battery feed to the EBL will not be valid for the EBL 105. There are always workarounds for this, but it's not so straightforward.

Thank you for your comment. I am not that comfortable fiddling around in the EBL so will need to seek advice regarding what to do. I will need to explore the workarounds as aside from disabling the VSR, I would like the fridge to be powered during journeys form the engine power. I will come to this at some point in the future and concentrate on the solar controller for the time being.

 

[Lenny HB]

Thank you for your advice. I have now ordered a Victron solar controller as at some point in the future I will consider a lithium battery. Not sure how to disable the VSR in the EBL or what to do regarding the AES fridge power supply (whilst driving) once the VSR has been disabled.

It's not a VSR it is a standard relay switched via the D+, you can disable it by pulling the 50 amp fuse by the starter battery. Or If your Hymer has 16mm² cable from the starter battery you can disconnect that cable from the EBL and use it for the input to your B2B.

Fridge is a seperate relay no need to do anything.

 

[PlacidoD]

That's the best way to do it. The solar port on the EBL is limited to about 15A, and your 400W of solar would well exceed that on a good day. The only minor point is that the shunt inside the EBL will not then measure the solar amps going into the battery, but as long as you know that, it's not a problem.

The split charge relay will need to be disabled if you install a B2B. If the B2B is about 30A or less, then you can wire it straight through the split charge relay, so no need to disable it in that case. You should be aware that this EBL 105 is an early version of an EBL, and does NOT have separate wiring for the split charge relay and other items like the fridge, as seen in all later EBLs. So any advice about just removing the starter battery fuse or disconnecting the starter battery feed to the EBL will not be valid for the EBL 105. There are always workarounds for this, but it's not so straightforward.

I am interested in you comment highlighted above. Is your comment specific to this Hymer and EBL/electrical set up? I suspect not?
As you know from other posts my long term ambition is to fit a low cost LiFePo system to my Hobby T500 with a circa 100 Ah battery and fitting a B2B only leaving other elements in place. One obstacle to my plans is the thought of running extra heavy duty wiring through to the alternator etc. So if I were to fit a Victron 12-12/30 I could use existing wiring?
I am aware of the minor heat dissipation problems going with the 12-12/30 but the convenience of installation balances that out. I would just have to decide which of the tangle of wires and components are relevant to such installation!!!! (Probably best I get somebody else to fit it!!)

 

[Lenny HB]

It's not a VSR it is a standard relay switched via the D+, you can disable it by pulling the 50 amp fuse by the starter battery. Or If your Hymer has 16mm² cable from the starter battery you can disconnect that cable from the EBL and use it for the input to your B2B.

Fridge is a seperate relay no need to do anything.

Ignore what I just said about disabling the split charge relay, I've just read autorouter post about the EBL 105, I didn't relise it was different.

One thing I will repeat it is best not to run the B2B through the split charge relay, I've seen a few problems doing it that way due to a build up of carbon on the relay contacts which limits the current flow.

 

[PlacidoD]

Ignore what I just said about disabling the split charge relay, I've just read autorouter post about the EBL 105, I didn't relise it was different.

One thing I will repeat it is best not to run the B2B through the split charge relay, I've seen a few problems doing it that way due to a build up of carbon on the relay contacts which limits the current flow.

Lenny,
Is that why autorouter suggests limiting it to 30 amps?

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[autorouter]

It's not a VSR it is a standard relay switched via the D+, you can disable it by pulling the 50 amp fuse by the starter battery. Or If your Hymer has 16mm² cable from the starter battery you can disconnect that cable from the EBL and use it for the input to your B2B.

Fridge is a seperate relay no need to do anything.

Sadly,the EBL 105 is an early version, in a 1997 vehicle. There is only one feed from the starter battery, with a 30A fuse on it. It feeds the split charge relay, fridge and everything else. So those usual methods with EBLs won't work.

If it was mine, I think I would fit a relay to cut off the EBL when the engine is running. and reconnect it when the engine stops. I would use a changeover relay rather than a simple on/off relay. Then take the fridge heater element supply from the other contact, so it is only switched on when the engine is running. The relay could be switched with the D+ signal, which is easily available at the EBL.

The B2B would need to be wired direct between the two batteries, with a D+ signal to switch it on and off.

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny,
Is that why autorouter suggests limiting it to 30 amps?

No he is just talking about limiting the current through the relay.