Smart or suicidal?

S

Simonjdcooper

Joined
Mar 26, 2021
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Location
Worcestershire, UK
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MH
Burstner A645 Active
We are looking for a simple off grid heating solution.
Not going to fit a diesel heater (although realise that might be a suitable long term solution).
Is this:
1736951229834.webp

going to work or going to kill us?
Also open to alternative suggestions, we don't have the battery power for electric heating and our gas 'central' heating isn't the most reliable.
just looking for something simple and effective.
 
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Jesus that looks like instant death.
Where are you going to put the drop vents, cut a couple of 75 mm diia holes in the floor with a hole saw?

I surprised you even thought about using someting like that in a Motorhome.

If you have Truma combi that's playing up you can get JS heaters which are a cop of the Truma at less than ½ the price.
 
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Simonjdcooper said:
We are looking for a simple off grid heating solution.
Not going to fit a diesel heater (although realise that might be a suitable long term solution).
Is this: View attachment 1000551
going to work or going to kill us?
Also open to alternative suggestions, we don't have the battery power for electric heating and our gas 'central' heating isn't the most reliable.
just looking for something simple and effective.
Click to expand...
Those are ok for an awning that's well ventilated but not suitable for closed up van heating. As said .They can kill , well the carbon monoxide produced can.

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Its designed to be used as a heater (Quite a good one too) but not for over night use really. A CO detector would , as previously mentioned , alarm you of the build up so ideally one is required with its purchase. As long as there is a draft of air, it will function safely. Just remember to place the CO monitor ideally just below halfway between the ground space and the ceiling. Co is heavier than Oxygen just remember that.
The idea of this type is to heat the ceramic grill to allow heat to transmit and not a direct flame. Most of the latest ones have a built in sensor and they shut off if CO is detected. The cost is actually quite high but it comes down to the purchaser and the size of pockets. Hopefully you will come up with something a little more suitable .
Best be safe than sorry

Kev
 
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Carolyn and Kev said:
Its designed to be used as a heater (Quite a good one too) but not for over night use really. A CO detector would , as previously mentioned , alarm you of the build up so ideally one is required with its purchase. As long as there is a draft of air, it will function safely. Just remember to place the CO monitor ideally just below halfway between the ground space and the ceiling. Co is heavier than Oxygen just remember that.
The idea of this type is to heat the ceramic grill to allow heat to transmit and not a direct flame. Most of the latest ones have a built in sensor and they shut off if CO is detected. The cost is actually quite high but it comes down to the purchaser and the size of pockets. Hopefully you will come up with something a little more suitable .
Best be safe than sorry

Kev
Click to expand...
Even if they do work safely you still need drop vents close to where they are being used.
 
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We had one, when we had a caravan to heat the awning.. really good heaters.. would not use one in a confined space.

we still use ours, when sitting under the Thule wind out it just takes the edge off a chilly evening.... i know i am heating the air :LOL:
 
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Lenny HB said:
Even if they do work safely you still need drop vents close to where they are being used.
Click to expand...
Im assuming the OP is adult enough to know about the possibilities of CO and its issues it can cause? I think they will be aware of leaving a window open i would have thought? You dont require drop vents for a stabilizer type gas bottle system as shown in the photo. Just requires a draft to aid combustion and remove CO should it be faulty of course. You may be over thinking it Lenny ? Its a weed killer gas bottle type . ;)(y)

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Identical looking product was marketed for deer hunters here some years back to keep warm in the stalking hide. Guess it wasn't much of a success since I haven't seen any ads lately. I recall it was quite expensive to use, a 220g single use canister for few hours of heat. I'd be wary of carbon monoxide in enclosed places too.
 
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Even with perfect combustion one of those heaters will pump out water and carbon dioxide. In an enclosed space you will feel poorly pretty quickly but at least you will wake up feeling the suffocation as the co2 builds up.

Ventilated would be ok, but you'll be heating the cold air from outside and still using up the oxygen in the vehicle.
A portable diesel heater might be better for you and anything that uses up the oxygen in your environment to heat it will be bad news for your health and comfort.

It would take no time at all to get co2 levels tp 5000ppm from the baseline of 400ppm burning gas in a vehicle.
 
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Carolyn and Kev said:
Its designed to be used as a heater (Quite a good one too) but not for over night use really. A CO detector would , as previously mentioned , alarm you of the build up so ideally one is required with its purchase. As long as there is a draft of air, it will function safely. Just remember to place the CO monitor ideally just below halfway between the ground space and the ceiling. Co is heavier than Oxygen just remember that.
The idea of this type is to heat the ceramic grill to allow heat to transmit and not a direct flame. Most of the latest ones have a built in sensor and they shut off if CO is detected. The cost is actually quite high but it comes down to the purchaser and the size of pockets. Hopefully you will come up with something a little more suitable .
Best be safe than sorry

Kev
Click to expand...
Actually, what the OP needs to remember is this : "CO is slightly lighter than air. However, studies have shown no significant difference in measurements based on what height CO detectors are mounted. Different manufacturers recommend different mounting locations, and you should always follow the manufacturers’ recommendation.
CO has a molar mass of 28.0, and air has an average molar mass of 28.8. The difference is so slight that CO is found to evenly distribute itself indoors. It is worth mentioning that CO indoors is usually generated from incomplete combustion (heat source) and therefore traveling in a warm air stream. Warm air is more buoyant and does rise. Coupling this fact with the knowledge that CO is lighter than air… I personally have my CO detector located on the ceilings."

Quoted from https://healthybuildingscience.com/2013/02/22/carbon-monoxide-facts/

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Equally think even it it worked the OP may not have considered the ridicolous cost of these small propane cylinders.

Like everyone else says a cheap chinese Diesel heater from aliexpress or similar is less likely to kill you, cost a tiny percentage of the running costs, and overall be a better option. Just don't wait around get one, and a single Jerry can of diesel will last days and cost about the same as 2 of those propane cylinders, which would last 4-8 hours max.

Should add last time I purchased a can of fuel for a similar appliance it was aorund £7-8 per can of propane. There were cheaper cans (butane) but they wouldn't work at all in winter. (£2-3 a can)

When you consider both purchase and running costs, the answer is diesel; and the diesel will likely repay the higher running costs within a few days of operation, not even weeks.
 
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Simonjdcooper said:
Also open to alternative suggestions, just looking for something simple and effective.
Click to expand...
Simple and effective alternative to a diesel heater would be a wood burning stove.

A bit more faff, unlikely to stay lit all night, more cleaning but on the other hand requires no electric and you can get free fuel by going for a walk in the woods with a small folding pocket saw....

I love a real fire, but I've got a diesel heater in the van.
 
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chesterfield hooligan said:
If the canisters get cold they won't gas off so no flame also if in a confined place it could kill you not worth the risk.
Click to expand...
Agreed
Just bought a new propane/butane canister for my blowtorch .
I had to run it under a hot tap for a few minutes to get it to light.
It doesn't state the propane/methane mix % but I suspect the propane is very little compared to butane.

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TDub49 said:
Actually, what the OP needs to remember is this : "CO is slightly lighter than air. However, studies have shown no significant difference in measurements based on what height CO detectors are mounted. Different manufacturers recommend different mounting locations, and you should always follow the manufacturers’ recommendation.
CO has a molar mass of 28.0, and air has an average molar mass of 28.8. The difference is so slight that CO is found to evenly distribute itself indoors. It is worth mentioning that CO indoors is usually generated from incomplete combustion (heat source) and therefore traveling in a warm air stream. Warm air is more buoyant and does rise. Coupling this fact with the knowledge that CO is lighter than air… I personally have my CO detector located on the ceilings."

Quoted from https://healthybuildingscience.com/2013/02/22/carbon-monoxide-facts/
Click to expand...
Best to put a CO detector near where you will be breathing.

Molar mass should be ignored here, since Oxygen has a MM of 32 and Nitrogen 28, you don't find the floor carpeted in O2.

Heat matters because it affects the density of an amount of gas, but then gasses mix because they are bouncing into each other all the time and are aggressively mixed all the time, tend towards high entropy (mixed) so even CO, warm and rising will mix and lose its heat.
 
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Sewdhull said:
Even with perfect combustion one of those heaters will pump out water and carbon dioxide. In an enclosed space you will feel poorly pretty quickly but at least you will wake up feeling the suffocation as the co2 builds up.

Ventilated would be ok, but you'll be heating the cold air from outside and still using up the oxygen in the vehicle.
A portable diesel heater might be better for you and anything that uses up the oxygen in your environment to heat it will be bad news for your health and comfort.

It would take no time at all to get co2 levels tp 5000ppm from the baseline of 400ppm burning gas in a vehicle.
Click to expand...
Thanks, how does that compare to the CO2 levels when using the kitchen burners?
 
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