Should I / can I reject the van 4 months in or battle on?

[davidathomas42]

Well...

The thoughts today came in should I finally reject this motorhome 4 months in.

You will probably have seen my multiple issues threads running.

I have used the van this weekend after the glow plug repair (£1235) paid by the dealer. Well Billed to them. Don't think its paid yet

It's still having starting issues when hot (Not when cold) Failed to start 20 times today while sat outside the dealers after calling in to book in AGAIN to have a PCB board fitted to try and get the Truma back working after it failed in November! (no space and probably end up fixed at my appointment with Truma on he 20th or March and have to bill the dealers for that too.

The gearbox issue seems to have mostly calmed down but has moaned at me once in 200miles (GEARBOX FAULT TAKE TO DEALER) then continued to operate normally. Prior to going to the repairer it did it dozens of times. (they did not touch the gearbox as it wouldn't fail after the plugs repair)

Last night when parking up I had to restart the engine to move onto levelling ramps. It failed to start twice then did on the 3rd time but thru the engine warning light on which remains on. I have a reset tool I can use but shouldn't have to. It did that before the glow plugs were replaced too. I was hoping that would have sorted it.

So........ The Truma will get fixed. But the engine and gearbox are still a big question mark.
I could probably manage with the faults but my sister went half on the van with me and has not used it yet due the issues. I dont want to give her the keys for her planned trip end of March and say its all grand except this and that and dont do this or that. It will spoil enjoyment.
I also dont want it sat in repair forever. Ive already had 3 months lack of full enjoyment with it. Paying insurance road tax and storage i'm not using

The sticky wicket on saying to the dealer give me my money back is I paid £29,995 for the van and I have spent nearly 6k on upgrades. Gas Low. Full reupholster. Alloys. Mattress. Stereo for Reverse Camera. I cant imagine any response on the than NO if I contact them and say I am bringing it back and want £36k transferring to my bank.
I am also not sure where a Judge would land in a CCJ application if I took them to court for it. I have done that before to hand a car back and won and also for repair costs. But not for something I have essentially modified.

Thoughts?

At this point I would just like my money back. But that may be as drawn out as trying to fix stuff. And I do really like the van. Its layout is perfect. Not to mention its all new inside now and is what I picked. It's Auto. And its fully paid for which is nice. I have looked at what I would get for the money I have laid out and nothing excites me. So i think id end up without a motorhome again until I have 50-60k to get a more modern one.

 

[davidathomas42]

My proposal is one of 3.

1.I would like a refund of £29,995 I paid for the van Plus a further £6000 to cover the upgrades.
Gaz Low £695 (done by yourself)
New Interior £2508
Fiat Alloys (used) £660
Mattress £600 (original was dirty and smelt mouldy)
Glow Plugs £75 (fitting bill sent to yourself by Retracted)
Leisure Battery £140 (one supplied was past useful life at delivery)
Stereo Replacement/upgrade £1000 (Supplied one would not power up)
Total Cost £35,673 + Contribution towards Road Tax. Insurance & Storage I have paid while not having use of the vehicle.
I have also paid a further £2000 or so for removable items.

2. I drop off the van today Tuesday 1st March for you to attempt a final repair. I am on holiday until the 16th of March and have a provisional booking for the Heater repair with Truma in Derby on the 22nd. I will collect the Motorhome on the 21st with everything fixed or everything but the heater and you contact Truma to say you are covering any repair costs with them on the day and I will take it to them still.

3. I bring the Motorhome to you and by no later than the 21st March I have the van back with all faults fully repaired or a plan in place to have them repaired and you loan me at your cost another Motorhome of similar style to use whilst you complete repairs to mine.
This would have to have a TV installed or allow me to fit mine to the wall with my supplied brackets. A fixed style bed (not over cab style).
Please respond to my request by the below date. If option 1 is preferred I will require a week or two for removal of my private registration plate before handing over the V5C document.
If none of these options are acceptable please let me know your proposal by Friday the 4th March or I will have to issue court proceedings for my loss’s to bring this matter to a close.

Many Thanks
Me

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Sounds like you have had lots of issues ,but your dealer has obviously accommodated your requests to repair which you have "accepted", ( by not rejecting the van previously).
The extras that you have added must be to your account as there was no agreement with the dealer to pay for the additional items.
Some of your add-ons seem to be excessively high values, £1000 for a replacement stereo? Alloys £600, interior £2508,( was this agreed with the dealer?) Mattress ,£600 was this agreed with the dealer ,did you point out the previous mattress was mouldy and smelled.
All removable items are also to your account ,how can you charge these to the dealer.?
I'm sorry if my comments don't agree with the way you see it but that's my take on it..
I really think that you need to sit down with the dealer and point out all the issues above without the threats and look towards a way forward with them to put the van in running order. As you say you like the layout / van otherwise. Once you start to threaten ,everyone will back off .I' m not sure if you would be totally successful in a CCJ action.
Best of luck.

 

[Barti Ddu]

I'm afraid that I concur with Jimbohorlicks. The fact that you have now had the van for 4 months, have accepted several attempts at rectifying issues, and most significantly have made numerous modifications to it, all weaken any attempt to reject it. You will most likely have been deemed to have "accepted" it. You are therefore looking realistically at repair or replacement, or seeking damages (compensation) if they are unable to do either.

Even if you were able to reject it, you could only expect that both contacting parties be put back to their original positions. I think you would struggle to reclaim any costs for modifications that you have unilaterally performed.

It's a miserable position to find yourself in, and I wish you best of luck. However, be pragmatic, avoid completely falling out with the dealer whilst they are still trying to resolve issues, and only inform them of your intention to start County Court proceeding if you truly intend to do so, otherwise your bluff has been called and you've lost all credibility, and any chance of a more amicable solution.

 

[davidathomas42]

I agree in some principal with those comments.

However when I bought the motorhome it was under the agreement that I could take out the interior prior to collecting it to have it all recovered while they put it through the workshop to be ready for me to use from day 1. So I would have never been able to reject it back to them at cost. I expected it to leave there workshop "fit for purpose"

Alloys yes I could buy some used steels and put them back on but they do add value. Mattress no i didn't point it out but it was 11 years old so expected to be worn so id argue that is price of playing.
Gas Low. Thats fitted and adds value to the motorhome for them reselling. (they also made a profit supplying and fitting it)
They have had multiple chances to fix it and haven't. Its only though me been persistent that one of the faults is now fixed. They just dont have the staff. Today when I called in it was clear that I wouldn't get anything sorted in the next few weeks as they are too busy. That again means im paying costs to have it stood still.

Yes 4 months on is a long time to reject. But its been 3 months of that trying to fix it with them.

I may not get it all back. In fairness I dont want my money back. I want a working Motorhome as thats what I paid for. Id be very happy with option 3 of loaning me a Motorhome while they fix mine.

As for bluffing on court. I don't bluff. I stay calm. I work the problem and I go to the next step. Ive done it before and have no issue doing it again. If a judge disagrees with me then so be it. But it's very easy to start the process and from past experience companies prefer to pay up rather than try to defend in court.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[davidathomas42]

Sounds like you have had lots of issues ,but your dealer has obviously accommodated your requests to repair which you have "accepted", ( by not rejecting the van previously).
The extras that you have added must be to your account as there was no agreement with the dealer to pay for the additional items.
Some of your add-ons seem to be excessively high values, £1000 for a replacement stereo? Alloys £600, interior £2508,( was this agreed with the dealer?) Mattress ,£600 was this agreed with the dealer ,did you point out the previous mattress was mouldy and smelled.
All removable items are also to your account ,how can you charge these to the dealer.?
I'm sorry if my comments don't agree with the way you see it but that's my take on it..
I really think that you need to sit down with the dealer and point out all the issues above without the threats and look towards a way forward with them to put the van in running order. As you say you like the layout / van otherwise. Once you start to threaten ,everyone will back off .I' m not sure if you would be totally successful in a CCJ action.
Best of luck.

Just to note some things here. You have to give a dealer 1 opportunity to repair something before you can reject a vehicle. They have had that now so I can reject it. Its taken a long time to get to this point. Thats down to there lack of service staff and poor communication. I have everything noted down with me pushing and pushing for a result.

The Stereo value was high because its a high end item. I could remove it and put back in a broken unit. I didn't raise it as I wanted to upgrade it anyway. So yes that could be taken out

Alloys are not high cost. To be fair at £600 for original Fiat alloys in like new condition is cheap.

The interior is a full high end refurbish and really adds strong value to the Motorhome. Something they would get advantage of reselling it if they take it back and repair it.

I have not included the removable items in my request. Just noted that. If I end up with no motorhome because of this I will still have spent £2000 on stuff I cant use anymore or maybe sell at a huge loss.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Yes ,It looks to be a nice van , internally, and your only issues appear to be engine related,which albeit an older van should be fixable ,at worst case a replacement engine ,but I don't know what that would cost and whether they are available . ( Just a thought)
I appreciate that you are reluctant to use the van or let your sister use it in case it breaks down. Is the dealer able ,mechanically,to sort out the issues or are they just habitation fixers and fluid changers. As said I would sit round the table with them ,ask for a loan of a van whilst they sort yours out. See what they say.

 

[davidathomas42]

Is the dealer able ,mechanically,to sort out the issues or are they just habitation fixers and fluid changers. As said I would sit round the table with them ,ask for a loan of a van whilst they sort yours out. See what they say.

They are just hab guys and basic stuff. They wont touch anything heavily mechanical so it would have to go back to the truck repair place they use and lend me a van. I cant see them doing that though as it could be a seriously large bill for them. Engine and gearbox could shake towards 10k I guess. Not worth it on an older van.

I imagine they will phone me tomorrow as they were straight on the phone when they got the £1235 bill for the Plug repair. Fastest they have ever contacted me.

Doesn't all need to get fixed tomorrow but it needs sorting now. I cant have a £36k paper weight on the drive.

 

[Barti Ddu]

If its all fixable - then I'd continue down this route if at all possible, and try to mitigate your loses. If the supplying dealer is incapable of fixing it, give them notice that you intend to have it rectified by someone who can fix it, charged back to the dealer. This amount would form the basis of any claim. Hopefully only a few thousand pounds. Whoever conducts the repair needs to be able to be able to provide you with evidence of what work was needed at what cost in support of your claim.

Attempting to reject the vehicle with a claim of £36k having only paid £30k is much higher risk, and with an uncertain outcome. The fee for starting the action will itself be £1,800 (5% of the claim value) - which in itself will concentrate the mind (of all parties).

Anyway - good luck with whichever way you decide to proceed.

 

[davidathomas42]

I ho I ho it’s off to court we go.

So I sent them the email proposal Monday night and also text the main service guy Tuesday morning to sort of apologise that my email may sound harsh but it’s been 3 months of not been able to properly use the van. Most of that in a workshop and no end in sight and all I really have is a £36k paperweight.

He replied to say I am driving at the min and not seen it and will ring me in the afternoon.

Well it’s Thursday with the Friday deadline I said for a reply and not heard a thing

So today I will be filling in court paperwork for an initial £2k in repairs and costs to submit to the county court. I’ll screen shot email that to them with a reminder that 2pm Friday I’ll press send.
Also there will be further claims made for the still ongoing issues with the van side of stuff once that it properly diagnosed and the cost of the Truma heater repair at Truma on the 22nd of March.

Watch this space.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Robert Clark]

I ho I ho it’s off to court we go.

So I sent them the email proposal Monday night and also text the main service guy Tuesday morning to sort of apologise that my email may sound harsh but it’s been 3 months of not been able to properly use the van. Most of that in a workshop and no end in sight and all I really have is a £36k paperweight.

He replied to say I am driving at the min and not seen it and will ring me in the afternoon.

Well it’s Thursday with the Friday deadline I said for a reply and not heard a thing

So today I will be filling in court paperwork for an initial £2k in repairs and costs to submit to the county court. I’ll screen shot email that to them with a reminder that 2pm Friday I’ll press send.
Also there will be further claims made for the still ongoing issues with the van side of stuff once that it properly diagnosed and the cost of the Truma heater repair at Truma on the 22nd of March.

Watch this space.

You’ll need to send them a formal ‘notice before proceedings’ letter first

That should help get their attention

 

[davidathomas42]

You’ll need to send them a formal ‘notice before proceedings’ letter first

That should help get their attention

When you say formal.

I have already told them that I intend to take them to court if they don’t give me a satisfactory plan. And I am just about to email them again to remind them I have not heard and I will submit court paperwork 2pm Friday if I hear nothing by then.

Are you saying I need to do more than that?

 

[eddie]

Having gone down the legal route myself in the past, and ended up with Months of frustration have you considered the money that you will loose?

I know that you've made a list of things that you consider "had" to be done and feel justified in asking for the costs to be considered as part of your claim, but you will struggle to get more money back months after you bought a second hand vehicle because you fancied a nice new set of Alloys, a bang up to date Stereo etc, they will argue that the motorhome would sell easily without those upgrades, an impossible argument to counter as they will simply point out that you bought is sans upgrades!

So, given that even if your successful, and it is harder to reject a second hand vehicle than a new one as wear and tear is arbitrary rather than a science and the older the vehicle the harder it becomes to establish

So, you obviously liked the motorhome enough to spend £30K on it, and, you'll probably loose the money that you have spent on the upgrades, I think you suggested that you'd paid around £6K why not just get the jobs fixed and sue the dealer for those costs?

That way you get the van you want, with the upgrades you chose and the repairs done professionally to your satisfaction at no cost to you. Worse case if the dealer can't afford and folds, you still have the van

Reject the van formally and the Company folds you can't then tell the receiver that you didn't mean the legally binding letter of rejection and ask "please may I have my van back" because as others on here have found out the answer is no!

 

[davidathomas42]

So, you obviously liked the motorhome enough to spend £30K on it, and, you'll probably loose the money that you have spent on the upgrades, I think you suggested that you'd paid around £6K why not just get the jobs fixed and sue the dealer for those costs?

Thats what i'm doing.

I have no intension of getting rid of it. I just gave that as one option for them to reject. I am starting with £2k current costs for the last repair.

Then it will be the Truma repair that failed 4 weeks in and I have been trying to get them to fix for 3 months.

Then the engine and gearbox issues that have been there since delivery day.

If they want to give me £36k they can. But I think we all know they wont. But dont ask you certainly wont get.

 

[Robert Clark]

When you say formal.

I have already told them that I intend to take them to court if they don’t give me a satisfactory plan. And I am just about to email them again to remind them I have not heard and I will submit court paperwork 2pm Friday if I hear nothing by then.

Are you saying I need to do more than that?

Yes

What is a letter before claim? | LEXLAW Solicitors & Barristers

Informally known as a ‘pre-action letter’ or ‘letter before action’, a letter before claim (“LBC”) is a letter sent from a claimant to a potential defendant which sets out the details of the claim…

lexlaw.co.uk

There are templates you can use online

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Ingwe]

Here‘s a really useful guide on the relevant law.

https://www.clerksroom.com/downloads/697-Consumer-Rights-for-Motorhome-Owners-and-Rejecting.pdf

 

[Southdowners]

You mentioned that the dealership isn't set up to tackle engine issues. Has the dealer actually sent the vehicle to the truck workshop?

 

[davidathomas42]

You mentioned that the dealership isn't set up to tackle engine issues. Has the dealer actually sent the vehicle to the truck workshop?

They did. Thats who fixed the glow plugs for me. They still had the issue with it not starting when warm. They have not had the first bill settled yet despite asking for payment a few times.

 

[Paul.L]

Any news David?

Have the issues been resolved?

 

[davidathomas42]

Any news David?

Have the issues been resolved?

Well.. I sent the dealer a final demand as I was filling in court paperwork on Thursday 3rd March stating as such.

I got an email and phonemail within 3 min asking me to bring the van to them the next day and they will get there regular (out of house) straight guy straight on it.

I agreed to leave it until 21st (this coming Monday) to fix or return to me as its booked in with Truma on Tuesday and that was booked about 6 weeks in advance due how busy they are.

Wednesday morning I text the service manager to ask progress and got a reply saying he will call the service guys and update me that afternoon. No reply later on. I text again yesterday morning with no reply all day. So I called in at 1730 to see WTAF! is going on.
The service manager saw me arrive and came out to greet me (felt like he was worried I would kick off in the showroom)

He said he had not heard back from the service guy yet and likely as they are swamped. And he will get onto him first thing today and text me.

I stressed its booked in Tuesday and I will not miss that appointment as the heater failed in November and were barreling close to April now!!!!!!

Not heard anything yet. Monday morning I imagine i'll be going in again and demanding it back. Probably have to go fetch it from where ever it is. Just hope it's not in bits.

Then i'll be filling in court paperwork with no more warnings or requests. I'll be be done with them then.

I'll get Truma to phone the RAC warranty people about the heater repair but I assume they just cover the van side of things and not even that really. Just keeps box's ticked for a judge.

All in all this has not been the welcome back to van life as I had hoped. Had the van 5 months now and although I have had some use from it I certainly have not had anything like the enjoyment I should have had.
As a pilot I work very hard in summer which is about to start with a bang for me from easter so I have missed all of my quiet period over winter when I would have expected to have been away in it a lot.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Spriddler]

Absolutely dreadful.
There have been too many other examples on here of poor quality and lack of dealer response or support, particularly since a m/h is a substantial purchase. Most frustrating and annoying.

 

[davidathomas42]

 

[Happy Jim]

My opinion.
Take it back into your control and stress will drop dramatically.

Truma will fix the heater.

The engine is quite probably the Crank angle sensor (well known failure symptom of failing when hot), or after market (poorly fitted) car alarm/immobiliser (Garage for sensor, Eddie VB to replace other).

That’s probably £2k tops to fix, at which point you’ve got a great van (interior looks great BTW) and can seek recompense at leisure.

Regards

Jim

 

[davidathomas42]

For reference I paid £30k for the van late October.

I have had the Truma unit replaced by Truma for a factory reconditioned unit at £960 as the repair quote for my Broken one was £1170!

I just don’t see this ever getting repaired now. His mechanic had it for 2 weeks while I was away early March and achieved nothing but deciding it was a senior issue. Great fix it

I took it back to get the heater sorted which I did. Dropped the bill off Tuesday and not heard a peep about paying it yet.

There under staffed and don’t seem to really seem to care or be able to cope with stuff not going smooth.

Think I’ll be ending up in court after all with them.

 

[Figaro]

Feel for you but don't have anything useful to help, sorry.
Hope you can get it resolved

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Yes, it's been a saga for you and obviously still ongoing. Best of luck.

 

[Jim]

It's a shame that it's illegal to take people by the lapels and drop a twenty-five-pound head onto the bridge of their nose. Not that this action would get you anywhere, in fact, it would make thinks infinitely worse, but for a short time, you'd feel a lot better.

 

[davidathomas42]

No reply yet as expected. Monday I’m going in to present them with a formal request for all my money back in exchange for the return of the van. I’ll attach court paperwork pre-filled in for submit ion by Friday if I don’t have the cash or a reasonable plan to fix it ASAP and loan of another van until fixed.

I’m done now.

 

[Landy Andy]

senior issue

Hahaha.

Sensor I assume.

 

[TheBig1]

there are a few possibles with the warm non-start. The starter motor has been known to become too weak and obviously the crank sensor. Then there is a possibility it is a crappily installed alarm/immobiliser, with the immobiliser inhibiting the start

All can be repaired/rectified cheap enough by a decent garage or vehicle electrician. My answer would be to take the van to a well respected professional garage and send the dealer the invoice. If they don't pay, take that to court and you have an excellent chance of winning. Rejecting the van and seeking back all costs, you are bound to lose