Second Hymer purchase

[wfdTamar]

A tale of two Hymers:

Pondering what to do with a new (used) Hymer I have just bought (not picked up yet).

I already have a 2002 Hymer B584 Classic LHD 2.8 jtd in the UK I got in 2019.
It has a Yuasa L36-EFB 100Ah with 200 watts solar which has worked ok.

The 3way fridge died so I put in a mains powered compressor fridge run via Victron Phoenix 500VA inverter from a 100Ah lithium. 300 watts solar and a 30A B2B charger. That whole system is separate from the main leisure system and it works great (just might bump the inverter up to an 800VA one). A far better fridge than the 3way. Plenty of spare capacity in the battery.

So that's my northern summer ride. I've been keeping my eye out for a motorhome here (Australia) but they're ridiculously expensive and have terrible layouts and tend to be big fuel guzzling types. Very rare to see a Hymer for sale. You're looking at £35,000 entry point for something that isn't an old jalopy. More like £45,000 for a decent one that wasn't a compromise in some way.

Southern summer ride - I found and bought a 1996 Hymer B544 2.5 litre. It has done 200,000 km and doesn't have air con. Apart from that it has a new Dometic CRX110 fridge and looks in pretty good condition. It has an old Elektroblock 104-2 (10A charger). It should only have one lead acid or gel leisure batterry. Some genius installed 2 AGM‘s which, surprise, surprise, the current owner found were failing. They just plonked in a 125Ah lithium battery, with the AGM’s still in there! So it has 3 batteries, 2 different types, none of which will work correctly with the (cheap) solar controller or Elektroblock. Besides the charging profile being wrong, there’s no way the 10A charger in the Elektroblock could cope with 2, let alone 3, batteries.

I'll be removing the AGM's. If they're ok after a proper charging, I'll try to sell them.

Current owner put in a 125Ah lithium - a cheaper one. I actually have a spare 100Ah one the same brand already. I'd bought a nice little Geist LV485 caravan (which had a replacement charger) and got it for that. The advantages of the caravan - it was cheaper than a motorhome (cheaper to register and maintain too). However I decided the caravan was going to be a pain to drive and not actually very fuel efficient (uses more fuel than my Hymer). Hate the idea of having to make a up a bed every night too. Now I have the Hymer, that'll go eventually.

So, for the B544 I'll either just get a decent Gel which is within the Elektroblocks capabilities and do the same as my UK Hymer - have a completely separate system for the fridge. Or work out how to bypass the Elektroblocks charger and use one (or both) of the lithiums (I think possible with a battery balancer).

The other annoying thing is the windscreen has a small stone chip right in front of the driver (under the black tape in the photo). It has been repaired. I'm not sure how visible it is. I have to get a roadworthy to register it in my state and you aren't allowed any damage in the drivers area. It may not pass, which means new windscreen. PSV have them for £1575 (including seal), but can't ship to Australia. Found one in Germany, but shipping may be the problem again. Since Covid shipping has become very difficult. (just heard back from DHL - they will only ship by air, if at all. I don't need it for 7 months, so by sea would be fine and a lot cheaper, but no can do).

 

[paddymcc]

Not familiar with that EBL but it looks like you have separate fuses for compressor (25A) and 3 way fridge (15A). So if you can work out the correct terminals on the EBL you could wire a compressor fridge through that. Does the EBL have options of different charging profiles? You might be better buying a separate lithium charger and going down that route. 15A solar isn't bad but again the EBL might struggle with 15A solar and 10A from EHU. Udo Lang at Schaudt might advise
Nice looking van, enjoy.

 

[Hoovie]

Personally I would bypass the EBL for all charging duties and fit a separate B2B and AC Charger, keeping the EBL for 12V distribution purposes.

 

[wfdTamar]

I hadn't noticed the two fridge fuses. Interesting it has that. I wonder if that's how the CRX fridge has been installed. An EBL that age would likely only have lead acid and maybe Gel (the switch may be somewhere else on it, though on my 2002 EBL it's on that face too). I need to find a manual.

The way I did the fridge in my UK van was all separate from the standard leisure system and modern stuff. Although I installed an EHU charger, I never needed to use it as between the solar and B2B the fridge lithium always charged.

Yes Hoovie, I'm inclined to do that and/or replace the EBL with a newer one. I did see a site with a description of doing away with the EBL all together and converting it all to modern stuff. Nightmare for the next owner though.

 

[Hoovie]

I hadn't noticed the two fridge fuses. Interesting it has that. I wonder if that's how the CRX fridge has been installed. An EBL that age would likely only have lead acid and maybe Gel (the switch may be somewhere else on it, though on my 2002 EBL it's on that face too). I need to find a manual.

The way I did the fridge in my UK van was all separate from the standard leisure system and modern stuff. Although I installed an EHU charger, I never needed to use it as between the solar and B2B the fridge lithium always charged.

Yes Hoovie, I'm inclined to do that and/or replace the EBL with a newer one. I did see a site with a description of doing away with the EBL all together and converting it all to modern stuff. Nightmare for the next owner though.

Your point about creating a potential nightmare for the next owner is very well made.
I did an electrics upgrade on an Adria fairly recently, updating the Basic battery to a 300Ah Lithium, Victron Multiplus Inverter/Charger, MPPT and new panels etc. but wanted to do it in such a way that it could be reverted to original if wanted easily. Removed the original battery and in the footprint of that battery built a 'sled' which would accept the existing connections from the EBL to transfers over, plus the new connections

Charger Sled 1 by David, on Flickr
It would be a very easy job to remove this sled, reinstate the original cabling to the EBL and a new basic Lead Battery, plug the AC back into the EBL and back as Adria made it pretty well. Then just a matter of removing all the kit added into the old Gas Locker (Multiplus, Battery, BMV, etc. which are no longer in the circuit).
Kept the EBL to deal with the 12V distribution and managing the 3-way Absorption fridge - both functions that have not really changed for many decades so updating the EBL to provide those roles seems a bit pointless?

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[autorouter]

I hadn't noticed the two fridge fuses. Interesting it has that. I wonder if that's how the CRX fridge has been installed.

The 15A fuse is switched by the engine running signal, and comes out on pins 4 and 7 of the 15-way connector. Intended for an absorber (3-way) fridge.
The 25A fuse is a permanent feed directly from the leisure battery, and comes out on the 12-way connector, pins 1 & 10 positive, pins 4 & 7 negative. They are doubled up because the pins are only rated at about 15A individually. Intended for a compressor fridge, however since the fridge only takes 6.2A that's not exactly a problem.

 

[autorouter]

This EBL104-2 is a quite an early model, there's no manual but there's a wiring diagram on the Schaudt website, have you got a copy? Unlike all the others I've seen doesn't have the fuse for isolating the internal mains charger output. However if the mains input plug is pulled out of the EBL front panel then the charger won't be powered. It shouldn't cause any problems, its output should have diodes (electrical one-way valves) to prevent any backfeeding so isolation isn't necessary.

I notice the 3-way solar connector is not in use, so I assume the solar power goes straight to the leisure battery, not through he EBL. This EBL is getting on a bit, designed for when 100W of solar and 2 leisure batteries was unimaginable luxury. So as Hoovie says probably best to run as much charging as possible bypassing the EBL, leaving it mainly for its distribution circuits. The alternator charging could still go through the split charge relay built into the EBL.

You will lose the amps measurement, which only measures amps going via the EBL. It will still register, but won't see the solar charging etc that bypasses the EBL. However the volts measurements should all still be valid.

An entirely separate set of batteries for inverter power and the fridge, like your other MH, is a good idea. The entire EBL probably only consumes 200W at its maximum, so a single small battery would supply that. It can be topped up by the existing EBL charger, or a small smart charger, powered by the inverter.

If the second set of batteries is only powering the inverter, you could consider going to 24V or even 48V if it is only powering an inverter. If you're buying a new mains charger anyway then buy one for the higher voltage batteries. Many solar chargers can switch to 24V and sometimes 48V without modification.

If you wanted to charge the higher voltage batteries from the (12V) alternator you can get a 12V-to-24V B2B DC-DC charger. You can run the fridge, TV etc from the inverter. You can top up the 12V battery from the inverter with the original EBL charger or a small smart 12V charger.

Actually, this may be a situation where one of those all-in-one Power Stations is a good idea. It can charge from EHU, and take the solar panel feed directly to its built-in controller. It could charge from the alternator 12V while driving, ideally with a B2B charger supplying it.

 

[wfdTamar]

I haven't got the Hymer yet. I go to Queensland first week of April to pick it up and drive back to Tasmania so not completely sure how it's set up. Half a day flying, a 2000km drive plus a 10 hour ferry over Bass Straight just to pick up a Hymer - Australia is a tad bigger than the UK

Looks like it has about 200 watts of solar, and yes, must go direct to the leisure batteries. I'll change that controller to something like a Votronic. Tossing up between going Votronic for electrics, which has nice LCD displays, or Victron which tends to prefer Bluetooth to your phone. Not so convenient and instant, but may be more configureable and keeps history (pretty graphs)? Apps get updated too. There are some Victron displays, but they're a bit ugly (the little round ones).

Got the EBL 104-2 diagram. Looks like they're using that 3way fridge wiring for the compressor fridge.

I did the UK Hymers fridge power system seperate so it wouldn't mess with the existing leisure system. I wasn't sure how much power the fridge would need and didn't want the fridge to drain the leisure battery (if it was all on the one system). Also I was sure the one Yuasa EFB wouldn't cope with everything. Even a Gel (the only other option for that EBL) probably wouldn't on a string of bad solar days.

I really like the solar & B2B setup I have for the UK Hymers fridge battery, so I'd maybe replicate it on the Aussie Hymer at least for a fridge battery, or even for a new lithium based, single leisure system that does all (or maybe just the higher demand stuff). A lot depends what state the EBL is in. Also would need to work out how to use 2 different capacity lithium batteries together safely.

Hymer's are quite rare here (I don't reckon there'd be more than 10 in the country) so there's not the knowledge of their electrics. It wouldn't be such a big deal to change something that is a puzzle anyway in its stock form. Although the EBL is not that complicated, it is different and that always seems to set off lots of head scratching and teeth sucking "Jeez mate, never seen one of them things".

 

[wfdTamar]

Argh. Looks like the Admin of the Classic Hymers Technical Facebook group has chucked a tanty and thrown me off. Just because I dared to say something he didn't like. Boy I hate soup nazi's. Frustrating to have a group that becomes a leading source of sharing run by somebody so fickle. I admin a group and I've never had to put my size 10's in at all.


The site where someone deleted the EBL (looks like a lot of bother):

Schaudt Elektroblock – DIY replacement – Motor-Roam

motor-roam.co.uk

 

[glastry]

Argh. Looks like the Admin of the Classic Hymers Technical Facebook group has chucked a tanty and thrown me off. Just because I dared to say something he didn't like. Boy I hate soup nazi's. Frustrating to have a group that becomes a leading source of sharing run by somebody so fickle. I admin a group and I've never had to put my size 10's in at all.


The site where someone deleted the EBL (looks like a lot of bother):

Schaudt Elektroblock – DIY replacement – Motor-Roam

motor-roam.co.uk

Interesting to hear that, i got "removed " for daring to suggest he was not totally correct!,
What a tosser! Seems very twitchy. - i suppose i did say he was behaving like a fuhrer -oh dear!

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