Schaudt says AGM same as gel?

acropolis22

acropolis22

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I'd always thought that AGM batteries are just another form of lead acid battery. But Schaudt say their Electroblok 271 should have the battery selector switch set to "Lead gel" not "Lead acid". This is from Schaudt's manual for the Electroblok EBL 271:

"AGM battery: Schaudt GmbH recommends charging AGM batteries
with their chargers in switch position ”Lead-gel battery”.
We believe that AGM batteries can be charged perfectly this way. However,
suitability must be checked using information from the battery
supplier and the charging parameters of Schaudt equipment. The
charging parameters are specified in the operating and installation
instructions."

As far as I can see, (restricted visibility in battery compartment), mine is set to Lead acid, against Schaudt's recommendation. I'm not entirely happy with battery performance, and this is just one thing I want to check out. What do people think? Would I get better charging by switching to the "Lead gel" position? The battery is a 180 Ah AGM.
 
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Lenny HB said:
You can fit another charger separate to the EBL and take the fuse out on the EBL that stops it charging but I'm not sure if the engine battery still gets charged.
autorouter may know.

The cheaper option would be to run your current battery until it dies then replace with Flooded cells or Gels.
Click to expand...
I think I may end up replacing my AGM battery with a gel battery. Udo Lang recommends gel for the EBL 271. Any suggestions re brand?
 
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acropolis22 said:
When you have an AGM battery type 2 with a need of 14,7V charging level please set the EBL to gel mode as well and add any additional charger with an AGM output with 14,7V and minimum 6A." This is part of Udo Lang's reply about the EBL 271 settings. Is he saying that for a Type 2 AGM battery I need to have an additional charger somehow connected to the EBL 271? That would be well beyond my abilities/experience to do...........
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It's not totally clear, but I think he means you can use the existing internal mains charger on the 'Gel' setting. If you want to add an additional charger you should choose one with an AGM profile (14.7V absorption voltage, and minimum 6A charge output). You might need an additional charger if for example you are adding extra leisure batteries.

It's quite easy to add an additional charger. There is a 2-way connector on the front panel (Bloc 3), Pin 1 negative, Pin 2 Positive. You then insert the fuse into the 'Chargeur Auxiliaire' slot, and the charger connects to the leisure batteries through the shunt just like the existing charger. A 20A fuse is OK.

If you fit an auxiliary charger, you can disable the existing mains charger by removing the 'Chargeur Interne' fuse. This also stops the existing mains charger from trickle-charging the starter battery. However the auxiliary charger will continue to trickle-charge the starter battery. The voltage is reduced from 14.7V so it's OK for the starter battery.

If you want a 2-way connector for the auxiliary charger, it's a Mate'N'Lok type, like this. It comes with separate pins/receptacles which you crimp onto the wire. Then push the pin/receptacle into the plastic shell, and small barbs lock the pin in the shell. Available from auto electrics suppliers, for example
www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Mate N Lok Universal Connector Pair - 2 Way

2 way Mate N Lok connectors for 0.5-2.0mm² cable provide secure and robust multiple connections. Supplied as a pair of male/female housings with all terminals.
www.12voltplanet.co.uk
 
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autorouter said:
It's not totally clear, but I think he means you can use the existing internal mains charger on the 'Gel' setting. If you want to add an additional charger you should choose one with an AGM profile (14.7V absorption voltage, and minimum 6A charge output). You might need an additional charger if for example you are adding extra leisure batteries.

It's quite easy to add an additional charger. There is a 2-way connector on the front panel (Bloc 3), Pin 1 negative, Pin 2 Positive. You then insert the fuse into the 'Chargeur Auxiliaire' slot, and the charger connects to the leisure batteries through the shunt just like the existing charger. A 20A fuse is OK.

If you fit an auxiliary charger, you can disable the existing mains charger by removing the 'Chargeur Interne' fuse. This also stops the existing mains charger from trickle-charging the starter battery. However the auxiliary charger will continue to trickle-charge the starter battery. The voltage is reduced from 14.7V so it's OK for the starter battery.

If you want a 2-way connector for the auxiliary charger, it's a Mate'N'Lok type, like this. It comes with separate pins/receptacles which you crimp onto the wire. Then push the pin/receptacle into the plastic shell, and small barbs lock the pin in the shell. Available from auto electrics suppliers, for example
www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Mate N Lok Universal Connector Pair - 2 Way

2 way Mate N Lok connectors for 0.5-2.0mm² cable provide secure and robust multiple connections. Supplied as a pair of male/female housings with all terminals.
www.12voltplanet.co.uk
Click to expand...
As you will guess I'm a total amateur on this stuff. Can I ask a general question? I'm clear on all that stuff in your post above, but how do identify the pins on those connectors? For example Bloc 6 on the Electroblock 271 has 12 pins. Is there some form of marking that will tell me what is what? Obviously I can see from the manual which number pin carries what circuit, but how do I physically find the pin? Of course I haven't looked yet..... :giggle:
 
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acropolis22 said:
As you will guess I'm a total amateur on this stuff. Can I ask a general question? I'm clear on all that stuff in your post above, but how do identify the pins on those connectors? For example Bloc 6 on the Electroblock 271 has 12 pins. Is there some form of marking that will tell me what is what? Obviously I can see from the manual which number pin carries what circuit, but how do I physically find the pin? Of course I haven't looked yet..... :giggle:
Click to expand...
Perhaps if you were be able post up a clear photo of the the front of the panel others may be able to offer definitive advise, one picture being worth "a thousand words and all that".
Mike.
 
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acropolis22 have you worked this out yet as I'm in a similar position. We too have an EBL 271 which is currently set on Lead Acid. I'm just about to replace the two leisure batteries and was considering AGM over flooded but this thread has me wondering whether the 271 will be detrimental to AGM? Might just stick with flooded as I don't fancy shelling out all that dosh for 2x gels?
 
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acropolis22 said:
As you will guess I'm a total amateur on this stuff. Can I ask a general question? I'm clear on all that stuff in your post above, but how do identify the pins on those connectors? For example Bloc 6 on the Electroblock 271 has 12 pins. Is there some form of marking that will tell me what is what? Obviously I can see from the manual which number pin carries what circuit, but how do I physically find the pin? Of course I haven't looked yet.....
Click to expand...
It's a good question. There is a small number 1 on the front panel next to Pin 1. For single row connectors that's all you need.

For 2-row connectors there is an arrow showing the direction of counting (otherwise you wouldn't know if it was up/down or left-right). Unfortunately that's not enough to completely define the numbering. For example if the arrow is horizontal, does the numbering re-start at the left of each row, or does it zig-zag in a 'serpentine' fashion? I've come across both methods in different electronics brands. In Schaudt Electroblocks they have chosen the re-start on the left option.

For example, Bloc 4 is
7:8:9
4:5:6
1:2:3

Note that the connector shells have some pin shields with a flat section (D-shape) rather than round. So the connector can only fit one way round, and are not reversible.
 
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autorouter said:
It's a good question. There is a small number 1 on the front panel next to Pin 1. For single row connectors that's all you need.

For 2-row connectors there is an arrow showing the direction of counting (otherwise you wouldn't know if it was up/down or left-right). Unfortunately that's not enough to completely define the numbering. For example if the arrow is horizontal, does the numbering re-start at the left of each row, or does it zig-zag in a 'serpentine' fashion? I've come across both methods in different electronics brands. In Schaudt Electroblocks they have chosen the re-start on the left option.

For example, Bloc 4 is
7:8:9
4:5:6
1:2:3

Note that the connector shells have some pin shields with a flat section (D-shape) rather than round. So the connector can only fit one way round, and are not reversible.
Click to expand...
Brilliant! That's really helpful. Now you've pointed it out I can see the number 1 next to each connecter in the photos I took for reference. Together with your other comments I'm now sorted. Thanks again.
 
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Paulypaul said:
acropolis22 have you worked this out yet as I'm in a similar position. We too have an EBL 271 which is currently set on Lead Acid. I'm just about to replace the two leisure batteries and was considering AGM over flooded but this thread has me wondering whether the 271 will be detrimental to AGM? Might just stick with flooded as I don't fancy shelling out all that dosh for 2x gels?
Click to expand...
Well, I posted elsewhere that my 271 is set to Lead Acid whereas I have an AGM battery. This directly contradicts what Schaudt recommend for a Type 2 AGM battery. So the only question then is "Do I have Type 1 or Type 2?". I think it's Type 2 but I've given up trying to verify. I have switched the setting to "Lead gel" and hope that my battery is a Type 2. In any case I will soon enough probably switched to a sealed flooded battery and then eventually to lithium as the price comes down. Hope this helps.

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acropolis22 said:
Well, I posted elsewhere that my 271 is set to Lead Acid whereas I have an AGM battery. This directly contradicts what Schaudt recommend for a Type 2 AGM battery. So the only question then is "Do I have Type 1 or Type 2?". I think it's Type 2 but I've given up trying to verify. I have switched the setting to "Lead gel" and hope that my battery is a Type 2. In any case I will soon enough probably switched to a sealed flooded battery and then eventually to lithium as the price comes down. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thank you (y)
 
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acropolis22 said:
Well, I posted elsewhere that my 271 is set to Lead Acid whereas I have an AGM battery. This directly contradicts what Schaudt recommend for a Type 2 AGM battery. So the only question then is "Do I have Type 1 or Type 2?". I think it's Type 2 but I've given up trying to verify. I have switched the setting to "Lead gel" and hope that my battery is a Type 2. In any case I will soon enough probably switched to a sealed flooded battery and then eventually to lithium as the price comes down. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
I thought type 1charge at 14.4v & type 2 at 14.7v, Gel setting charges at 14.4v.

If you are going to keep the AGM fit a charger that is suitable for it.
 
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Lenny HB said:
I thought type 1charge at 14.4v & type 2 at 14.7v, Gel setting charges at 14.4v.

If you are going to keep the AGM fit a charger that is suitable for it.
Click to expand...
You're right. I got confused, or should I say even more confused. But it may not make any difference since I have no idea whether I have Type 1 or 2. It's pretty poor that the battery sellers don't bother to tell us whether a particular AGM is Type 1 or 2. You'd think this was important information since they require different charging profiles. Starting to get fed up with this whole thing. I've now established that my AGM battery is an Explorer and appears to have been produced in September 2015..... Will now try to find out definitively whether it is Type 1. I think that year is more likely to be Type 1? In which case I may by chance now be on the right Electroblock setting.
 
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If it works, why 'fix' it??
Could I ask what is the actual problem?
Are your batteries under-performing in some way?
If they are under-performing, (and you have solar attached full-time,) they must have failed after 6 years, change the batteries for new ones, maybe double up.
If you are still getting acceptable usage on 12v, why change a thing?
 
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DethleffsOwnersClubUK said:
If it works, why 'fix' it??
Could I ask what is the actual problem?
Are your batteries under-performing in some way?
If they are under-performing, (and you have solar attached full-time,) they must have failed after 6 years, change the batteries for new ones, maybe double up.
If you are still getting acceptable usage on 12v, why change a thing?
Click to expand...
If only it were that simple. :giggle: Nothing wrong with your comments, but it has been picked over at some length. Once I know the charger has correct settings, and once I can accurately measure battery SOC I will know better what to do. As you say, I will probably end up replacing the battery.

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For all things to do with batteries, charging and EBLs contact Martin at andncaravanservices.co.uk. Martin is an expert on such things and is happy to give free advice. Was very helpful to me when I had similar questions regarding my battery set up.
 
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acropolis22 said:
If only it were that simple. :giggle: Nothing wrong with your comments, but it has been picked over at some length. Once I know the charger has correct settings, and once I can accurately measure battery SOC I will know better what to do. As you say, I will probably end up replacing the battery.
Click to expand...
Hi, I wasn't trying to oversimplify or be 'funny' in any way about your predicament. I was just trying to understand what the problem is. I have had lots of batteries of different types with EBL Schaudt systems. Personally I always try to use wet batteries with a solar system as I find that the gel or AGM types have such a low charging band that they never seem to quite 'cut it' for performance. They seem to always be showing a lower voltage than you expect. Constantly concerning! Old school wet batteries charge at 14.7 and they start at a higher voltage....less worrying to a layperson like myself.
At 6 years old, you possibly need new batteries anyway, but, with solar charging, I have had ten year old wet batteries that have still had plenty of go in them. Good luck with your quest.
 
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DethleffsOwnersClubUK said:
I thought that all of the older EBL units charged at 14.7v on wet and 14.4v for newer batteries?
Click to expand...
Older ones are 14.3v for flooded & Gel, absorbtion time 1 hour flooded, 8 hour Gel.

Newer ones 14 3v flooded, 14.7v AGM, absorbtion time 16 hour Gel, 4 hours AGM.

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BouncyBoatFolk said:
The opening paragraph in this article may prove helpful, It's quite a long read through for the whole piece though.

Charging batteries | Mastervolt .

Important information about charging batteries
www.mastervolt.com
Mike.
Click to expand...

Can I keep my batteries connected during winter?​

This is no problem for any Mastervolt battery, and can even be a benefit as the lower temperature extends battery life considerably. The batteries should be fully charged, however, and disconnected from any consumers. Make sure to consider hidden consumers such as voltmeters, clocks and the car radio memory. If the battery is connected to a Mastervolt battery charger with 3-stage+ charge characteristic, the battery is recharged every 12 days to ensure it stays in optimal condition. If you disconnect the battery we recommend disconnecting all consumers and connecting the power once every two to three weeks to ensure the batteries are recharged. If you don’t have access to power in winter, we recommend fully charging the batteries and disconnecting the battery terminals to ensure they are not discharged by small devices. We also recommend fully charging your batteries every two months and before they are reused. Wet batteries should be recharged regularly to prevent them from freezing.

Also from the same source and specifically mentions continual charging.
 
Upvote 0
BouncyBoatFolk said:
The opening paragraph in this article may prove helpful, It's quite a long read through for the whole piece though.

Charging batteries | Mastervolt .

Important information about charging batteries
www.mastervolt.com
Mike.
Click to expand...
Also from the same source

Can I keep my batteries connected during winter?​

This is no problem for any Mastervolt battery, and can even be a benefit as the lower temperature extends battery life considerably. The batteries should be fully charged, however, and disconnected from any consumers. Make sure to consider hidden consumers such as voltmeters, clocks and the car radio memory. If the battery is connected to a Mastervolt battery charger with 3-stage+ charge characteristic, the battery is recharged every 12 days to ensure it stays in optimal condition. If you disconnect the battery we recommend disconnecting all consumers and connecting the power once every two to three weeks to ensure the batteries are recharged. If you don’t have access to power in winter, we recommend fully charging the batteries and disconnecting the battery terminals to ensure they are not discharged by small devices. We also recommend fully charging your batteries every two months and before they are reused. Wet batteries should be recharged regularly to prevent them from freezing.
 
Upvote 0
weemalkie said:
Also from the same source

Can I keep my batteries connected during winter?​

This is no problem for any Mastervolt battery, and can even be a benefit as the lower temperature extends battery life considerably. The batteries should be fully charged, however, and disconnected from any consumers. Make sure to consider hidden consumers such as voltmeters, clocks and the car radio memory. If the battery is connected to a Mastervolt battery charger with 3-stage+ charge characteristic, the battery is recharged every 12 days to ensure it stays in optimal condition. If you disconnect the battery we recommend disconnecting all consumers and connecting the power once every two to three weeks to ensure the batteries are recharged. If you don’t have access to power in winter, we recommend fully charging the batteries and disconnecting the battery terminals to ensure they are not discharged by small devices. We also recommend fully charging your batteries every two months and before they are reused. Wet batteries should be recharged regularly to prevent them from freezing.
Click to expand...
Wrong thread?
 
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