Refused insurance because of age.

[frenchie46]

I'm 79 and was shocked when I tried to get a weeks temp insurance to drive my granddaughter's car. Apparently no ins co will insure an over 75 for short term ins. I have read that there is a law that makes it illegal to refuse ins on the basis of age, yet this is ignored by ins cos. This makes me worry about the difficulty of getting normal ins when I'm 81 (2 years time! ) as apparently it used to be a cut off point for ins.

I would be grateful if any of you who have reached this great age of wisdom (I wish!) could comment on their experience. Have you been refused? What did you do?

Many thanks.

 

[Bounty Hunter]

I am 78 years old and queried my insurance renewal quote, November 30th, from NFU which had increased by £300 and was told the main reason was my age even though I have 9+ years No Claim Discount. Tried other companies but they were quoting more for the motorhome than NFU quoted for motorhome and car insurance combined
I then asked what happens when I turn 80 and was told as an existing customer they would continue to offer me insurance but they would not take on any new clients if 80 years old

 

[frenchie46]

"they would not take on any new clients if 80 years old"
That's shocking. And worrying. I'm sure it's against the law. But I suppose they could get round it by offering a ridiculously high premium. I know two 65ish year olds that definitely should NOT be driving. But they go by their actuarial tables rather then the individual I suppose.

 

[Littlewheels]

We’re doomed sadly. No matter what you have achieved for the common good, your contribution to society once you’re old you are pretty much discounted. I’m finally retiring at 80 having paid in heavily but now l am just a waste of space,the lifetime contribution counts for nothing.

 

[Pausim]

My father in law had many years NCD until he reached his 80s when he suddenly started bouncing off other cars, the garage door and the garden wall. He was never to blame, all the damage was done by other people according to him. Similarly a neighbour here in his late eighties never seemed to notice if he hit a car or parked on the pavement blocking a driveway. I also know some people well advanced beyond the ages of these two who are still driving safely. However I can see why some insurance companies hesitate to take on new business after certain ages.

I know age discrimination at work is illegal but not so sure it extends to insurance. I saw this on one website. “Under the Equality Act 2010, there is an automatic exemption from claims of age discrimination in relation to insured benefits which are withdrawn at a certain age.” I think it was talking about employment but even in this context insurance falls outside the normal rules.

I am creeping towards the years when age and insurance might become a factor. I now pay attention to useful threads like this one. I think I will stick to my NFU insurance because it looks like customer loyalty becomes a factor at 80.

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[PhilMary]

We’re doomed sadly. No matter what you have achieved for the common good, your contribution to society once you’re old you are pretty much discounted. I’m finally retiring at 80 having paid in heavily but now l am just a waste of space,the lifetime contribution counts for nothing.

According to the Govenment you're not even worth keeping warm.

 

[VXman]

I'm 79 and was shocked when I tried to get a weeks temp insurance to drive my granddaughter's car. Apparently no ins co will insure an over 75 for short term ins. I have read that there is a law that makes it illegal to refuse ins on the basis of age, yet this is ignored by ins cos. This makes me worry about the difficulty of getting normal ins when I'm 81 (2 years time! ) as apparently it used to be a cut off point for ins.

I would be grateful if any of you who have reached this great age of wisdom (I wish!) could comment on their experience. Have you been refused? What did you do?

Many thanks.

I would assume the actual reason wasn't age but risk. All insurance is calculated on age, sex, history, location etc etc. Insurance costs rise as you get older (after a certain sweet spot in middle age) and we certainly found my mother in laws became quite expensive once she hit her 80's. A short term temporary insurance carries even more risk. What is you had a write off in a 1 day insurance policy. That would cost the insurance co. loads! They have just decided you are not worth the risk. That's the insurance companies prerogative. Alternatively they could have offered you a premium costing more than the value of the car.

Sadly, most older people will say 'I'm Ok'. My Dad did and my MiL did (even though she had had a stroke and was hobbling around on a stick and having falls.)

 

[VXman]

According to the Govenment you're not even worth keeping warm.

Politics not allowed and some would say that statement not actually true. Can't discuss that here though.

 

[The Wino]

My mother in law is still driving at 94. Last year she drove through a red light into another car she had another written off a few years ago. This year her insurance quote was £5k but she is still driving as she is on higher rate DLA and got a motabilty car as it was cheaper than the insurance. It's a difficult balance getting out and being independent is important as people age but statistically they are more likely to have accidents. Insurance companies are buisnesses they offered a quote to take a gamble on getting more in premiums than they pay out the algorithms they use aren't designed to be ageist just to determine the price at which they will take on the bet. We could outlaw use of age in setting premuims presumably for youngsters too otherwise it would be ageist but it would mean everyone else paid more as there would still be the same number of claims

 

[Odd-no-more]

Age is only one factor, I have two neighbours, one is in his early 80s and not safe, I've seen him bump into parked cars. The other neighbour is 96 and a safe driver, who still does the odd day's work. How is an insurance company to know which is which?

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[PaulW2]

The insurance market operates within a regulatory framework. It is a constant frustration to me that our politicians of whichever stripe just aren't able to comprehend and deal with things sensibly. To illustrate with a few examples:

- Years ago it became illegal (due to EU regulation at the time) for insurance companies to discriminate based on gender. So young women, who are far safer drivers, and young men had to be on the same premium table. At the time it cost my daughter a lot of money. So the law says you can't discriminate on gender and a new risk group is established. Simple. But the young women got stitched up by the banning of gender discrimination. Hmm.

- As an employer you are not allowed to discriminate on age. Even mandatory retirement ages have dropped by the wayside. Then we offered our employees private medical insurance in the UK. So far so good. But the insurance companies would increase premiums as employees get older. The employees pay tax on this. So older employees pay more. Speak to the insurance companies and they don't want to know. So we as an employer offer a benefit in a discriminatory way where older people pay more and the insurers are blithely unconcerned because they weren't under a regulatory regime that required anything different.

However, if you employ enough people that you can establish your own medical insurance risk pool, with costs funded by the company, then you won't be able to discriminate in the same way.

- Old people live where they do. Effort is expended on keeping them independent. Few resources exist to fund them when they lose independence. Driving licences are issued based on the judgment about whether they are ok to drive. You are legally required to have insurance to drive. But is there any legal obligation for anyone to offer you insurance? A default insurer? A guarantee that older people aren't punitively priced out of the market if no one decides to insure them? None of the above. Government don't want to know.

Of course people who claim cost more than people who don't. And of course some people claim more. How they get lumped together into risk pools, and the rules that surround that, is deeply political. It's not just a bean counting question.

And it's not a question where insurers can be given a free hand to decide on which costs they will 'externalise', eg oldies who are forced to move house at great cost because no one will insure them.

 

[Jerrywh]

According to the Govenment you're not even worth keeping warm.

If you can't even manage to keep yourself warm, perhaps they are right?

 

[PaulW2]

If you can't even manage to keep yourself warm, perhaps they are right?

By extension if you can't handle your own childbirth, educate yourself, do your own surgery, be independently wealthy in retirement?

 

[pappajohn]

NFU and others may continue to insure over 80 but I bet the premium doubles

 

[PaulW2]

NFU and others may continue to insure over 80 but I bet the premium doubles

Now imagine insurers were told as a matter of regulation that, to the extent that age is a factor, all people older than 70 had to be treated the same. Or all people older than 60. Or all people older than 50.

What would that do?

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[nicholsong]

We’re doomed sadly. No matter what you have achieved for the common good, your contribution to society once you’re old you are pretty much discounted. I’m finally retiring at 80 having paid in heavily but now l am just a waste of space,the lifetime contribution counts for nothing.

Oh come on, you are sounding like a 'surrender monkey', but maybe you are jesting.

I am nearly 83 and have just come back from a 3-month MH trip to Italy and Greece.

I am just dealing with purchase of a house, its finance and cross-border tax implications.

I also give some legal comment on here and financial advice to friends.

And I make some comment on aviation forums.

That is all in addition to looking after my younger lady, including financially.

I consider that I am still of value to the society around me.

What are you doing daily?

 

[PaulW2]

Oh come on, you are sounding like a 'surrender monkey', but maybe you are jesting.

I am nearly 83 and have just come back from a 3-month MH trip to Italy and Greece.

I am just dealing with purchase of a house, its finance and cross-border tax implications.

I also give some legal comment on here and financial advice to friends.

And I make some comment on aviation forums.

That is all in addition to looking after my younger lady, including financially.

I consider that I am still of value to the society around me.

What are you doing daily?

You have outlived far more than half of your birth cohort. And a significant percentage of those who are still alive are in poor health. And a significant number also aren't financially well off. All the monkeys do eventually surrender, but not all at the same time

 

[Just smiffy]

I'm 79 and was shocked when I tried to get a weeks temp insurance to drive my granddaughter's car. Apparently no ins co will insure an over 75 for short term ins. I have read that there is a law that makes it illegal to refuse ins on the basis of age, yet this is ignored by ins cos. This makes me worry about the difficulty of getting normal ins when I'm 81 (2 years time! ) as apparently it used to be a cut off point for ins.

I would be grateful if any of you who have reached this great age of wisdom (I wish!) could comment on their experience. Have you been refused? What did you do?

Many thanks.

And now when you seek out new insurance you will have to answer the question

‘’ have you been refused insurance in the past”’

You will have to answer that truthfully and that alone will load your premiums…

 

[Gizmouk]

Try Saga and Age Concern - both will be able to help.
Mother in Law was still crashing driving until she was 92 - then had my mate fail the MOT on her car. Nothing wrong with the car, but was more concerned about her sharing the road with her

 

[L' Hobo]

Age is only one factor, I have two neighbours, one is in his early 80s and not safe, I've seen him bump into parked cars. The other neighbour is 96 and a safe driver, who still does the odd day's work. How is an insurance company to know which is which?

From their driving history might be a start?

If that history is no worse when they are in their 80's than it was in their 60's, then it must be Age Discrimination!

Why should Insurance Companies be allowed to Discriminate!

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[PaulW2]

Age is only one factor, I have two neighbours, one is in his early 80s and not safe, I've seen him bump into parked cars. The other neighbour is 96 and a safe driver, who still does the odd day's work. How is an insurance company to know which is which?

In theory their underwriters would look at inflection points where claims patterns change and define risk groups on that basis. Then they would justify it on the grounds that the members of the group are, on this dimension, roughly equally likely to claim. (Other factors typically include things like post code, the sort of car you drive, occupation.)

So they would say they design it so that the groups don't 'cross subsidise' each other.

But none of it is written in the stars and it's not an inevitability of the 'market'.

By definition those that don't claim always 'cross subsidise' those that do. It's the definition of insurance. And the categories that are created by insurers of the people who form a 'risk pool' are largely a matter of regulation and convention.

In my earlier examples gender discrimination for car insurance was removed at the stroke of a regulatory pen. And the safer gender (women) had to pay the price. And age discrimination is permitted in medical insurance if an insurance company does it, but employers aren't allowed to do it.

And we have seen that car insurance regulations don't protect older drivers. In consequence a cascade of bad things can result, including individuals losing their autonomy, having to sell their houses and so on.

So a little bit of money may be saved by an insurer, and a huge array of costs and impediments suffered by the public. That is an indication of regulatory failure. They're asleep at the wheel, being politicians and all.

 

[Barriesimpson]

How about a medical certificate for the insurance companies? I would pay it if it means getting insurance.

 

[Ingwe]

Oh come on, you are sounding like a 'surrender monkey', but maybe you are jesting.

I am nearly 83 and have just come back from a 3-month MH trip to Italy and Greece.

I am just dealing with purchase of a house, its finance and cross-border tax implications.

I also give some legal comment on here and financial advice to friends.

And I make some comment on aviation forums.

That is all in addition to looking after my younger lady, including financially.

I consider that I am still of value to the society around me.

What are you doing daily?

And in between times, you wrestle crocodiles for laughs.

 

[L' Hobo]

You have outlived far more than half of your birth cohort. And a significant percentage of those who are still alive are in poor health. And a significant number also aren't financially well off. All the monkeys do eventually surrender, but not all at the same time

That 'cohort' as you call them, may be in poor health BUT when one considers that the first years of their lives were without many of the things that we take for granted ,like plentiful food, NHS, dole, central heating, hope of a peaceful future etc, etc, etc.

I think they do bloody well and should be well looked after and appreciated, not used, after the majority worked and saved hard all of their lives, as a cash cow to support the lame and the lazy!
God help this Country!

 

[PaulW2]

The 1940 cohort had an average life expectancy at birth of about 62. Their parents' life expectancy at birth was 10 years shorter.

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[Dorwyn]

What are you doing daily?

Getting older each day! And by the sound of it, only a day or two behind!! Long may it be so. The only crocs I battle are the ones I put on in the morning at the mo!

 

[jerryz]

Almost every other country in the world insures the vehicle not the drivers ,, UK is the odd one out and also the most ripoff expensive

 

[Rob Hammond]

We’re doomed sadly. No matter what you have achieved for the common good, your contribution to society once you’re old you are pretty much discounted. I’m finally retiring at 80 having paid in heavily but now l am just a waste of space,the lifetime contribution counts for nothing.

Your never be a waste of space

 

[PaulW2]

Almost every other country in the world insures the vehicle not the drivers ,, UK is the odd one out and also the most ripoff expensive

Any licensed driver can drive my car in Portugal. The insurance went up by maybe 2% last year. No reason to Compare the Meerkat every year.

 

[jerryz]

A lot of old people will soon just drive without insurance , licenses or Tax ,, you dont piss off the elderly as we have nothing to lose .