Refillable gas problem

[Hayesdec]

Hi everyone

I seem to have a problem with filling the gas bottles. It was professionally done and there has been no problems. But recently I went to the garage to get them filled I noticed that one gas bottle had emptied only 4% gas left in one bottle other full everything worked ok. The other gas bottle we used until it was at 20%. I’ve just been to Morrisons garage and refilled with gas one is full the other bottle just filled to 20% ?? Both taps are fully open.
Any ideas what to do.

 

[icantremember]

Probably faulty gauges

 

[PlacidoD]

Use travel weight scales to weigh them or take them out and do that to check. Alternatively buy one of those inexpensive magnetic patches to put on the side of the offending bottle to check th
e level that way.

 

[bigtwin]

Probably faulty gauges

This

Ian

 

[Hayesdec]

Hi
Thanks for your help so far. One gas bottle is 100% and one is 20% I know by the weight of the bottles. How do I manage to fill both bottles to full. Usually when I refill they both fill to 100% ??? Someone must know. I don’t have gages. I just go by weight or the Truma gage.
Richard & Janet

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

When we fill we usually close the bottle valves to protect the regulator .we don't have a gauge but can judge what the cylinders should take approx by our usage. We usually run one bottle untill it's empty ( unless we top it up en route if we see a handy lpg stop) then start the next bottle and refill at nearest lpg outlet. Knowing that at least we will need 11 litres minimum. .
I would suspect your gauges may be inaccurate.

 

[The Wino]

Hi
Thanks for your help so far. One gas bottle is 100% and one is 20% I know by the weight of the bottles. How do I manage to fill both bottles to full. Usually when I refill they both fill to 100% ??? Someone must know. I don’t have gages. I just go by weight or the Truma gage.
Richard & Janet

They look like gasit bottles I suggest you ask them. They have an 80% maximum fill to ensure you take gas vapour out rather than liquid gas maybe the float for the 80% limit device is stuck in one of the bottles.

 

[Hayesdec]

When we fill we usually close the bottle valves to protect the regulator .we don't have a gauge but can judge what the cylinders should take approx by our usage. We usually run one bottle untill it's empty ( unless we top it up en route if we see a handy lpg stop) then start the next bottle and refill at nearest lpg outlet. Knowing that at least we will need 11 litres minimum. .
I would suspect your gauges may be inaccurate.

Hi Jim
I didn’t know you could still fill gas bottles with them turned off.
But that doesn’t solve the problem of one bottle being full and other one at 20%. The gas level Truma is acrute Enough. One bottle is definitely full and the other isn’t. I did think that turning the full one off then going back to garage and refill. But if you’re saying they fill with the taps off that’s not going to work. It just seems that there out of balance. It seems every thing is working inside the motorhome. But I’m only running on one gas bottle. It doesn’t seem to affecting anything it’s just I’m going to run out of gas quicker.

 

[Hayesdec]

They look like gasit bottles I suggest you ask them. They have an 80% maximum fill to ensure you take gas vapour out rather than liquid gas maybe the float for the 80% limit device is stuck in one of the bottles.

Hi
Thanks for that. Yes that sounds like a plausible answer. Sounds like I need a big hammer to give it a good bashing. Lol. I will try and give the people who fitted them a call.

 

[BusyBuilder]

Try banging it with your hand whilst filling, the float must be stuck

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Hi
Thanks for your help so far. One gas bottle is 100% and one is 20% I know by the weight of the bottles. How do I manage to fill both bottles to full. Usually when I refill they both fill to 100% ??? Someone must know. I don’t have gages. I just go by weight or the Truma gage.
Richard & Janet

Is bottle NB1 or 2 that's only partially refilling?
I went the simpler route,1 x 6 kg Gaslow refillable, and 1 x 6kg exchange. I've not found that combination a problem thus far, but our longest trip has only been 4 weeks so far.
Mike.

 

[icantremember]

If all you say is correct then the next most likely reason as has been said would be the cut off float is stuck. Other than this the next possibility would be a blockage in a filler pipe to that cylinder. This could be a kinked pipe or a break down of the inner liner.

 

[bobandjanie]

Just use the 20% bottle until it's empty, then refill and see how much it takes . Bob.

 

[hja]

We always turn our gaslow bottles off for filling.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Hi
Thanks for that. Yes that sounds like a plausible answer. Sounds like I need a big hammer to give it a good bashing. Lol. I will try and give the people who fitted them a call.

We have had to bash our bottles sometimes with a wooden block on thecbottle shoulder. Just a sharp tap. I had forgotten about that. Yes the valves do stick sometimes.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Folkranger]

When we fill we usually close the bottle valves to protect the regulator .we don't have a gauge but can judge what the cylinders should take approx by our usage. We usually run one bottle untill it's empty ( unless we top it up en route if we see a handy lpg stop) then start the next bottle and refill at nearest lpg outlet. Knowing that at least we will need 11 litres minimum. .
I would suspect your gauges may be inaccurate.

Same method

 

[JockandRita]

Sounds like I need a big hammer to give it a good bashing. Lol.

Ha ha. No obviously, but a rubber mallet would do nicely.........
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.............or you could get some help in.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Basildog]

Why not do the job properly
This thread has gone from bashing a gas cylinder by hand to using a block of wood then to using a hammer and lastly a rubber mallet ?
Having filled thousands of refillable LPG cylinders and tanks we have never had to bash any of them

 

[JockandRita]

Why not do the job properly
This thread has gone from bashing a gas cylinder by hand to using a block of wood then to using a hammer and lastly a rubber mallet ?
Having filled thousands of refillable LPG cylinders and tanks we have never had to bash any of them

So Charlie, how does a user dislodge a sticking float, if that is the problem identified? A genuine question BTW.

Advice I was given by a Truma Technician at their Derby HQ some years ago, to dislodge a sticky gas solenoid valve, was to gently tap it repeatedly with either the wooden handle of a hammer, or preferably, with a rubber mallet. This action was to coincide with the operation of the gas control. It worked a treat. I was grateful for that advice, which wouldn't have been given out had it been dangerous, nor would I have acted upon it, had I thought it was dangerous.

Whilst the above comment re "bashing the cylinder with a hammer" was obviously "tongue in cheek", it does seem quite plausible does it not, that if a float valve is confirmed as stuck, gently tapping the cylinder on the shoulder with a piece of wood or a rubber mallet, might cause enough vibration for it to free itself.

Whilst on duty some years ago, I and my colleagues witnessed a display of extremely rough and violent actions on a 13Kg cylinder, at a Gas Depot in P/boro, all in the staff member's effort to demonstrate the integrity of the cylinder. Believe it or not, the cylinder valve was open, and the gas flow was ignited before he began throwing it and kicking it around. OMG After witnessing that lot, a gentle tap with a piece of wood or a rubber mallet seems to be neither here nor there.

Regards,

Jock.

 

[Hayesdec]

So Charlie, how does a user dislodge a sticking float, if that is the problem identified? A genuine question BTW.

Advice I was given by a Truma Technician at their Derby HQ some years ago, to dislodge a sticky gas solenoid valve, was to gently tap it repeatedly with either the wooden handle of a hammer, or preferably, with a rubber mallet. This action was to coincide with the operation of the gas control. It worked a treat. I was grateful for that advice, which wouldn't have been given out had it been dangerous, nor would I have acted upon it, had I thought it was dangerous.

Whilst the above comment re "bashing the cylinder with a hammer" was obviously "tongue in cheek", it does seem quite plausible does it not, that if a float valve is confirmed as stuck, gently tapping the cylinder on the shoulder with a piece of wood or a rubber mallet, might cause enough vibration for it to free itself.

Whilst on duty some years ago, I and my colleagues witnessed a display of extremely rough and violent actions on a 13Kg cylinder, at a Gas Depot in P/boro, all in the staff member's effort to demonstrate the integrity of the cylinder. Believe it or not, the cylinder valve was open, and the gas flow was ignited before he began throwing it and kicking it around. OMG After witnessing that lot, a gentle tap with a piece of wood or a rubber mallet seems to be neither here nor there.

Regards,

Jock.

Hi Jock
I appreciate all of the helpful advice I have been given. And I think I have settled on a sticky valve as I cannot see what else it can be. As all the pipes look ok. No kinks. I always remember a technician coming to fix a very expensive machine and he hit with a hammer. Which was an expensive repair I said how come such a high invoice for a quick repair. He said it’s technical it’s knowing where to hit it. Let’s hope i hit in the right place. If not I will change the cylinder.
Thanks again everyone x

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Worst case is you can take the bottle out. Turn it upside down and then retry it in position just to make sure the float valve isn't stuck.

 

[Basildog]

So Charlie, how does a user dislodge a sticking float, if that is the problem identified? A genuine question BTW.

Advice I was given by a Truma Technician at their Derby HQ some years ago, to dislodge a sticky gas solenoid valve, was to gently tap it repeatedly with either the wooden handle of a hammer, or preferably, with a rubber mallet. This action was to coincide with the operation of the gas control. It worked a treat. I was grateful for that advice, which wouldn't have been given out had it been dangerous, nor would I have acted upon it, had I thought it was dangerous.

Whilst the above comment re "bashing the cylinder with a hammer" was obviously "tongue in cheek", it does seem quite plausible does it not, that if a float valve is confirmed as stuck, gently tapping the cylinder on the shoulder with a piece of wood or a rubber mallet, might cause enough vibration for it to free itself.

Whilst on duty some years ago, I and my colleagues witnessed a display of extremely rough and violent actions on a 13Kg cylinder, at a Gas Depot in P/boro, all in the staff member's effort to demonstrate the integrity of the cylinder. Believe it or not, the cylinder valve was open, and the gas flow was ignited before he began throwing it and kicking it around. OMG After witnessing that lot, a gentle tap with a piece of wood or a rubber mallet seems to be neither here nor there.

Regards,

Jock.

I would agree that electronic solenoids used with LPG can and do stick , often through lack of use but mainly due to a build up of heavy ends (oily sticky substance).
It was and is a known issue on automotive gas conversions , it’s why my predecessor Chris was so against using them in leisure vehicle installations.( you will notice that we do not sell them on either Autogasshop or Gas It websites now .
A tap of a solenoid valve would really only be a temporary fix as it wouldn’t be addressing the underlying cause .
I would certainly agree that gas cylinders/tanks etc can take some pretty serious punishment which is obviously a good thing , moving onto the posters apparent problem, it’s extremely rare that we ever see any issues with the filling side of cylinders / tanks, normally they are either full or overfilled despite protestations by the owners / installation / repair company etc .
The only true way to check is to remove both cylinders from the vehicle and weigh them , extracting the cylinder tare weight from the individual cylinder total weight to give accurate LPG content.
It is possible that the filler valve can fail as anything mechanical can, the most common cause is owners that lose their filler caps and continue to use their equipment without replacing the cap ( all our customers get a lecture regarding the importance of the filler cap and keeping the fill valve free from dirt / debris .
We as a company have decided that we will not supply any cylinder or tank valves to anyone ( this includes owners , trade professional fitters and manufacturers), we don’t want to be responsible for the possible consequences.

 

[BillyKontiki]

The 80% fill valve operates similarly to a ball valve in your w/c.cistern.
So if you suspect it is jammed it will be jammed in the up position l would remove the bottle and dump it down on its base a couple of times, this may work, and won’t do any harm, but if there is dirt in the valve as said I’m afraid it’s back to the manufacturer.