Reason to be careful with gas… (5 Viewers)

[enark]

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/03/us/video/rv-catch-fire-injuring-3-wbz-afill-digvid

 

[Brains]

Frightening.

One wonders what they were doing inside to produce a blast that big.
(Have they been watching Breaking Bad ....)

 

[TheBig1]

Well it takes a surprisingly small ratio of lpg to air to be explosive.

What worries me are the people I see filling cylinders with no protection. One drop of liquid propane on your skin will gas off at normal temperatures instantly. In doing g so, it expands in volume exponentially in an instant. This results in flash freezing skin and flesh to minus 200 degrees. It will burn to the bone, killing the flesh. Nasty stuff LPG if you are not careful

 

[Hedgewitch]

I understand why many, many folk prefer Gaslow or an underslung tank: cheaper to refill, the underslung tanks save room inside the van, and so on.

But I used to have one and hated it - where I live/usually travel LPG filling points are not common and despite always wearing gloves (TheBig1 ) I never enjoyed refilling the tank. Did not ever have a nasty blow-back but just the pressure release after a successful fill was unpleasant enough.

 

[jumar]

A vast volume of built up gas, which hasn't dumped to fresh air...perhaps filling cavities and being undetected for some time...would be a strong possibility ....just waiting for a source of ignition to complete the explosive process...

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[autorouter]

What worries me are the people I see filling cylinders with no protection. One drop of liquid propane on your skin will gas off at normal temperatures instantly. In doing g so, it expands in volume exponentially in an instant. This results in flash freezing skin and flesh to minus 200 degrees. It will burn to the bone, killing the flesh. Nasty stuff LPG if you are not careful

But you need to distinguish between one drop and one bucketful. A one gram drop of propane has the cooling power of 428 joules, which is about the same as the heating power of a one gram drop of boiling water. I wouldn't want a bucketful of boiling water over me, but a one gram drop I reckon I could survive.

 

[TheBig1]

A one gramme drop of liquid propane is energy dense and becomes a bucket of propane gas

 

[Dorwyn]

I do hate refilling, I get so nervous I faff it, hate the blow back when you release. And am never sure that the quarter turn has locked it securely, and if I faff it, have to replace the hose on the cradle and start again.

 

[autorouter]

A one gramme drop of liquid propane is energy dense and becomes a bucket of propane gas

One gram of liquid propane extracts 428 joules of heat from its surroundings when it turns into propane gas. It's still one gram of gas, even though it probably does fill a bucket.

Look up 'Latent Heat of Evaporation' in this properties table:

Propane - Thermophysical properties

Chemical, physical and thermal properties of propane gas - C3H8.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

It's 428000J/kg, ie 428 joules per gram

For comparison, the specific heat capacity of water is 4200 J/kg/°C, so one gram of water cooling from 100°C to 0°C gives out 4.2 x 100 = 420 joules.

 

[The Wino]

One gram of liquid propane extracts 428 joules of heat from its surroundings when it turns into propane gas. It's still one gram of gas, even though it probably does fill a bucket.

Look up 'Latent Heat of Evaporation' in this properties table:

Propane - Thermophysical properties

Chemical, physical and thermal properties of propane gas - C3H8.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

It's 428000J/kg, ie 428 joules per gram

For comparison, the specific heat capacity of water is 4200 J/kg/°C, so one gram of water cooling from 100°C to 0°C gives out 4.2 x 100 = 420 joules.

That's true but I suspect if I was injecting boiling water into a tank with a fitting like that I would want to wear gloves ( I actually wore leather gauntlets for increased coverage). I think a lot more people would intuitively use gloves if it was pressurised boiling water! I wish we had the French fitting instead it seems a lot more secure and less fiddly.

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[carolyn]

Our nearest LPG is Podimore. Our filler has always been on the passenger side and that pump is always temperamental. Often won’t work at all but the nozzle from the other side is long and always works so no problem. BUT on the way to Bridlington last year the passenger side seemed to connect and started working, suddenly LPG shot out over my hand. Very painful burn. Lucky I had long sleeves and a jacket.

Where were my leather gloves? Barely 1 foot away in the passenger side door pocket of course.

The other side worked fine as usual. I reported it but they couldn’t care.

I did like Turkey where they filled it for you.

 

[Dorwyn]

Podimore is my nearest that I can rely on to actually have lpg when you get there. Even the guy that will do it if asked has problems actually connecting, the gun seems to not fit that well. I didn't realize the other side was long enough to fit, I've always used the left side filler. Lower Weare did not have any LPG last time I tried after a 30 mile detour! So annoying!

 

[jezport]

The main thing that is dangerous is an LPG system fitted by an amateur and not inspected by a professional. Second is an old system never serviced. The risk of leakage and carbon monoxide seem to be ignored by most people until something goes wrong.

 

[carolyn]

Podimore is my nearest that I can rely on to actually have lpg when you get there. Even the guy that will do it if asked has problems actually connecting, the gun seems to not fit that well. I didn't realize the other side was long enough to fit, I've always used the left side filler. Lower Weare did not have any LPG last time I tried after a 30 mile detour! So annoying!

Glad I’m not the only one! Yes the hose is really long. It was a few years back when a really nice Polish chap in an LPG car came to my rescue. I used to try to use the one a couple of hundred metres from the Sparkford roundabout but that’s gone now.

 

[Guigsy]

I wonder what they were doing to leak that much gas? I assume US RVs have similar safety features to our side of the pond. So what failed? Or what were they doing?

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[autorouter]

Where were my leather gloves? Barely 1 foot away in the passenger side door pocket of course.

I'm not keen on those, there's an even chance the jet will go inside the glove and fill it up with LPG, worse than having no glove I think.

 

[Ejaydee]

I did like Turkey where they filled it for you.

Luckily our local LPG filling station (TR16 4JA) fills your bottle(s) for you every time. Not much good I realise if we need to fill up whilst on our travels, but usually we can make the Gaslow last for three weeks if we are careful, so ok for us!

 

[carolyn]

I'm not keen on those, there's an even chance the jet will go inside the glove and fill it up with LPG, worse than having no glove I think.

Just as well I always forget to put them on then!

 

[HKF]

This is why I'm terrified of using the gas in our MH

 

[The Wino]

I'm not keen on those, there's an even chance the jet will go inside the glove and fill it up with LPG, worse than having no glove I think.

That's why I had the gauntlets. I think it's pretty unlikely you could get liquid gas inside there unless there was a big spill so you'd be in big trouble anyway.

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[Pablo19]

Podimore is my nearest that I can rely on to actually have lpg when you get there. Even the guy that will do it if asked has problems actually connecting, the gun seems to not fit that well. I didn't realize the other side was long enough to fit, I've always used the left side filler. Lower Weare did not have any LPG last time I tried after a 30 mile detour! So annoying!

Lower Weare is my closest and I did get caught out once when they had none but that was about 9 months ago and continued for a few weeks. Recently they have had a regular supply and didn't anticipate any further supply issues.

 

[Dorwyn]

Lower Weare is my closest and I did get caught out once when they had none but that was about 9 months ago and continued for a few weeks. Recently they have had a regular supply and didn't anticipate any further supply issues.

I'm intending to try them again next week, on the way back from my habitation at the dealership in Brent Knoll but will phone first!!

 

[Dorwyn]

I must say their Autogas pump is no problem at all. Very professional!

 

[BikerGraham]

LPG etc has a lower explosive level of around 4% in air. Then it has to have an ignition source.

There is a perfume added to it such that we can smell any leak at levels which are parts per million (ppm)

Roughly 1% is 10000 ppm

So we would smell a leak well below it’s it becoming an explosion risk

Whilst not necessarily LPG, In terms of natural gas that we have at home, pressure below 100mbarg create an explosive zone of negligible extent I.e. don’t worry about it.
So long as there is a reasonable degree of ventilation.
Which is why the gas bottle locker has ventilation panels.

So for it to build up it has to be a leak into an enclosed space and not be noticed which it why it is extremely rare.

So chill out.
I do.

I use lpg and I undertake the risk assessments as part of my everyday job

 

[TheBig1]

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[Dorwyn]

I was just about to put Cola into my waste tank. So I'd better be careful I don't connect the LPG filler down there too!

 

[The Wino]

I was just about to put Cola into my waste tank. So I'd better be careful I don't connect the LPG filler down there too!

Not sure if you chuck a match in as well I don't think you'll be bothered about bad smells anymore!

 

[autorouter]

I was just about to put Cola into my waste tank. So I'd better be careful I don't connect the LPG filler down there too!

On the other hand, could be a bright idea as you reach the start of the Brenner