Probably going to buy a Bailey Approach Autograph 745 - anything to look out for?

[Trevor Wbm]

As per the title - so as to have a cleaner engine and more space, we're looking at a newer van that meets our needs and fits our budget. It all looks OK for it's age (2014 on a Boxer/Alco chassis) and we'll be buying from the long established dealer we got the first MoHo from.

Anyone aware of any specific issues with this model / age I should look out for?

 

[WASPES]

Check for damp the earlier ones have had damp floors

 

[starquake]

Remember the 2014's are not euro6, as that came in around 2017-18 from the checks we done. They are good engines, but were not clear on all clear air zones when we checked the one we were looking for plated 2017 from a major dealer this summer.

But damp check the floor is the reccomendation and check for spongyness in corners, the known risky points are the corners of the alco chassis so check those carefully with a meter or pay for a non-dealer damp check from a specialist -> also I'd be asking for when the leisure battery last replaced and insisting on it as part of purchase as there is no way that Bailey won't have needed ~2 batterys since new. The 745 (we looked at a few) I would also check it's been upplated and get a weighbridge check done on any extras, as the payloads were relatively small and we found immediately we would need a C1 for a realistic payload on one (and uplplatting). They are good vans don't let this put you off just 2014 is "early" in Bailey terms and there were some known failures if you check the Bailey FB groups on the corners of the floor not having the plastic damp sheets applied correctly leading to damp ingress. I'd also try to get the dealer to throw in an external gas point for a bbq and ideally a refillable gas system if not already fitted given you are using a dealer and it'll be cheaper to do "now" than later..

We ended up looking for the Approach 640 as well as the 745 (these have more base payload, nearer 700kg https://www.baileyofbristol.co.uk/motorhomes/approach-advance/approach-advance-640-2/ ) then ending up with a 66-2 as we realised after sitting in a few I didn't physically fit fully stretched in the french bed layouts like the 745/640 and given we were going to use a across chassis bed or the 2 singles we wanted either dual singles OR a conversion, and wanted a different layout in the living area, and 4 berth wasn't a "requirement" for us. The mad thing is I have near"spare" payload equivalent to a 745's empty load when we are fully loaded with all equipment, bedding, water, dog, and 2 heavy of us (we are quite generously proportioned) (3200 on a weighbridge with 2 gas, full fuel, travel water etc so 300kg free). Unlike some, we found Baileys all good vans, and that is equally seen on campsites we've been too with many happy Bailey owners from our experience.

The spec on the autographs is very nice, but in our opinion the "newer" Alliance and Alliance silver specs from 2019-20 years offered more for very little extra money down from a dealer this summer at least (the price we paid was ~ £4k more to the dealer we used for a 3 year newer van with better payload) when compared with the 2016 640 that we initially loved. What they don't offer is the big fridge you tend to get in the Autograph spec, but we compromised on that for the bathroom and bed config in the one we got, and the 400kg extra payload. Something to consider which my wife pointed out at the time ref; big fridge is we can always put a fridge outside the van in summer/winter in a coolbox trivially for the beers. The small fridges also burn half the gas roughly as a big one which I found out since, and we would knowing what we know now, go for a van with a small fridge next time, and use a coolbox/12v/240v externally for the beer supplys (we've found no-one tends to nick these if you use sites at least!). We negotiated a external 240v socket as well as the gas as part of our moho deal -> we didn't get a discount on the price, but we did get a lot of "useful" items added for "near-free" as part of the deal.

 

[GROMIT69]

We had two , one new one six months old sold them both within a year , 80% damp across the back on one and 60% damp across the back and down one side , be careful , that’s with out all the missing screws in the furniture and loose doors and draws

 

[Jenka]

I had a brand new 2017 A794 after 56 faults everything from damp floor ,resealing x3 an Hab door that wouldnt open etc etc i got rid for a German van and touch wood no issues. Im sorry to sound pessimistic as there are loads of Happy Bailey owners but for balance feel i need to say it.Nothing but grief to be honest.

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[bobnick]

Can only speak for the newer ones. Ours is a Autograph on a 22 plate.
I have to say the build quality is somewhat below a german built van i feel (although never owned a german one and some on here have complaints on them)

 

[starquake]

I had a brand new 2017 A794 after 56 faults everything from damp floor ,resealing x3 an Hab door that wouldnt open etc etc i got rid for a German van and touch wood no issues. Im sorry to sound pessimistic as there are loads of Happy Bailey owners but for balance feel i need to say it.Nothing but grief to be honest.

To be honest though like bad cars you can get bad vans from anyone -> a work colleague has a german van (Knaus) in for repair for floor damp at moment -> I don't know the model, but it's been in for 3 months. I don't think this is uniquely Bailey and as you say there are many happy Bailey owners on the sites we've visited this year -> but I'm not saying there are no bad ones, there are!

I can say I have had to repair things on ours since the summer purchase, but nothing more than we expected really, just knobs and stuff.

And there is a major positive of Bailey, if you are handy and able to fix things yourself you can get the parts yourself without tieing yourself to a slow dealer thanks to Prima leisure (though SOME parts will take an age for both dealers and you if on backorder).

 

[Jenka]

To be honest though like bad cars you can get bad vans from anyone -> a work colleague has a german van (Knaus) in for repair for floor damp at moment -> I don't know the model, but it's been in for 3 months. I don't think this is uniquely Bailey and as you say there are many happy Bailey owners on the sites we've visited this year -> but I'm not saying there are no bad ones, there are!

I can say I have had to repair things on ours since the summer purchase, but nothing more than we expected really, just knobs and stuff.

And there is a major positive of Bailey, if you are handy and able to fix things yourself you can get the parts yourself without tieing yourself to a slow dealer thanks to Prima leisure (though SOME parts will take an age for both dealers and you if on backorder).

Fair point however i don't expect to repair anything on a new van myself. Bailey outsource the warranty claims to the individual parts supplier who make the decision. As for prima lots cheaper on internet,i brought the same part numbered reading light for £13 cheaper !

 

[starquake]

Fair point however i don't expect to repair anything on a new van myself. Bailey outsource the warranty claims to the individual parts supplier who make the decision. As for prima lots cheaper on internet,i brought the same part numbered reading light for £13 cheaper !

Oh indeed, but bear in mind myself and original poster are looking at out of warranty vans. (the manufacturer warranty was expired on mine at time of purchase, and for a 2014 van it's well out of date). I know theres a bodywork warranty still for mine, , but I'm taking more about lights and fittings like you mention -> at least these are available.

As you point our Bailey outsource it all mostly other than the bodywork, and as such theres very little for them to do.

I fully expect our whale pump to die at some point but equally looking at it, I could likely easily replace it myself. So far we've been quite lucky in our first year with repairs being trivial stuff, a LED strip and a light as mentioned. (and like you we didn't get latter from Prima). However the item we did get from Prima (A privacy screen cut to size for the window) I could have manufacturerd myself, but for a lot more faff than the £10 ish it cost to have pre-cut to window spec.

 

[Mzracer]

As per the title - so as to have a cleaner engine and more space, we're looking at a newer van that meets our needs and fits our budget. It all looks OK for it's age (2014 on a Boxer/Alco chassis) and we'll be buying from the long established dealer we got the first MoHo from.

Anyone aware of any specific issues with this model / age I should look out for?

I would say one thing about Bailey MH's, just look at the sides.

Whenever I over take them on the motorway I marvel at why anyone would even go any further into buying one when the outside finish is like it is.

This image plucked from the web is a typical example.

You then have the warnings in this thread from owners regarding dampness and assembly quality - caveat emptor

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[bobnick]

To the layman the external of one van looks very much like the external of another with a few design detail differences.

 

[Mzracer]

To the layman the external of one van looks very much like the external of another with a few design detail differences.

You are better than a layman !!

The finish is awful.

 

[bobnick]

You are better than a layman !!

The finish is awful.

I have stated many times the internals are of a lower quality of fit than some (especially german).
Externally TBH i have not noticed.
We chose ours because it was the only one we looked at that the layout suited. Had we found a another at 30 40 50K more we may have bought.

 

[Mzracer]

I have stated many times the internals are of a lower quality of fit than some (especially german).
Externally TBH i have not noticed.
We chose ours because it was the only one we looked at that the layout suited. Had we found a another at 30 40 50K more we may have bought.

Fair comment. Maybe I am more hooked into exterior finishes because of my work in composites.

Nevertheless the finish issue exists, as I was able to pull up a random photo on the net to illustrate it.

 

[MR BLO]

It’s no different to purchasing any other used motorhome Trevor Wbm. Get it thoroughly checked over before hand. I own an Autograph II, so not this model but our friends do. They have had no major issues with theirs since they purchased new in 2016 (65 plate) although they have made a couple of modifications.
They said that the mattress was uncomfortable even with a topper so they had a replacement made to their liking.
They had the kitchen lockers replaced by a cabinet maker because they were frosted glass and apparently it was always obvious how messy their shelves were.
It’s not all good news though. They are a couple and they struggle to keep to 3.5t / rear axle weight with their e-bikes on the back.
I do think that the 2.2hdi engine is better than that in mine. I know I run heavier but they leave me for dead up the hills and run a couple of mpg better than my 2.0hdi. And they hardly ever have to put adblue in, most likely because it’s Euro5 not 6 - something to bear in mind if you want to do city breaks.

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[starquake]

The matress needing a topper thing mentioned above was a problem with some years of Bailey, they had a period where the "dreamsleep" system I think they branded it was anything but, ideally requiring the bedding replaced with foam and spring cusioning to be comfortable as a topper didn't cope. Thats why I'd check it's comfortable, and you fit in the bed as a priority. That said it's not like custom bedding is super-expensive compared with a motorhome. (I believe the bad bedding stage was 2015-18 ish from the research we done pre-purchase, as our 2019 has "okay" bedding), and mostly applied to the 2nd bed in a 4 berth and not the French bed. I'm not familar of the exact year they introduced it, but owners we've seen have mentioned it as being "bad" and needing a custom foam bed replacement for a ahbout five hundred quid (theres a link over here from another caravan forum on this, but the problems equally applied to MH's https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/129172-bailey-dreamsleep-fix/) . It'd be a shame for you to get a van and not know this, as any reputable dealer should be able to swap the bad foam if it is uncomfortable.

As ever sit in the van for a 30 min period and make sure it's not uncomfortable over that time in both seating and bed.

 

[Jenka]

The matress needing a topper thing mentioned above was a problem with some years of Bailey, they had a period where the "dreamsleep" system I think they branded it was anything but, ideally requiring the bedding replaced with foam and spring cusioning to be comfortable as a topper didn't cope. Thats why I'd check it's comfortable, and you fit in the bed as a priority. That said it's not like custom bedding is super-expensive compared with a motorhome. (I believe the bad bedding stage was 2015-18 ish from the research we done pre-purchase, as our 2019 has "okay" bedding), and mostly applied to the 2nd bed in a 4 berth and not the French bed. I'm not familar of the exact year they introduced it, but owners we've seen have mentioned it as being "bad" and needing a custom foam bed replacement for a ahbout five hundred quid (theres a link over here from another caravan forum on this, but the problems equally applied to MH's https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/129172-bailey-dreamsleep-fix/) . It'd be a shame for you to get a van and not know this, as any reputable dealer should be able to swap the bad foam if it is uncomfortable.

As ever sit in the van for a 30 min period and make sure it's not uncomfortable over that time in both seating and bed.

I had the dream sleep and Bailey wouldnt replace under warranty absolutely shocking quality and customer service ended up oaying £1600 for the conventional upholstery that Bailey eventually then fitted after dropping dreamsleep so understandably not a fan

 

[Arnside037]

To the layman the external of one van looks very much like the external of another with a few design detail differences.

TBH I've never really thought about what it looks like from the outside 'cos ive generally been inside, and when I am outside its often been in a comfy chair with my back to the MH and a gin and tonic in hand or a pimms. But seriously they are all uninspiring. Wish one of the new sale options would be to select your own design .. and have it wrapped to the side. Suggestons?
But i can't imagine that the current ranges of decals could really be a deal breaker when choosing any make ... including Bailey ... there must be other priorities surely.

 

[bobnick]

Speaking of decals mine are peeling off and is on the warranty list of jobs to be done.

 

[Trevor Wbm]

Thank you for the replies. All duly noted.

Having crawled all over it again, we've decided that of all the hundreds of vans we've studied on line, it's the one that's best fit for us and paid a deposit on it. It's the same dealers we bought the first one from (Dolphin in Southampton) and they were good to deal with when we bought the first van from them. The warranty will include any damp, and having used my aptitude for reading stuff upside down on the boss's desk I know none was was found when they bought it back from a customer. (Turns out that's easier when not stood to attention).

We were after a Euro 6 engine but having found that both Euro 5 and 6 qualify for a CritAir level 2 in France, which is where we do much of our travelling, we decided to save around £6k and go for an older van. Worst case, we can get through some places we can't at the moment, and I'm told it's got a cam chain rather than a belt, so that's another £700ish I'm not going to be spending.

Comments re the finish noted, maybe I'm too easily pleased but it's not an issue for me.

The bed passed the highly scientific 'lay on it for 30 seconds, that'll do' test. We may live to regret that, we'll see.

Dolphin have offered us a PX price that's about £3k less than I hoped for, but probably about right for trade, however their workshop is busy, so the delivery is set for 9th Jan, and in the meantime we've got the current Autocruise up for sale.

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[bobnick]

I am sure you will love it.
We do like ours, warts and all.
NO van is perfect, no matter what some may say.

 

[Jenka]

Good luck make sure the dealer transfers the Bailey body warranty to your name ,if its under 10years old .

 

[Lenny HB]

As others have mensioned a damp floor is a problem with them and it won't be Euro 6 it will be either Euro 5 or Euro 5+.

A bigger problem is payload, it will be fine it it's on the heavy chassis 4250kg but a lots were sold on the light 3500kg chassis. It is very unlikely that a 7. 5m van can be run at 3500kg.

 

[bobnick]

I don't understand all this weight and payload stuff.
Ours is deffo 3,850 and i can get all the stuff we want in with space to spare.............................then again we don't carry heaps of crap.

 

[Lenny HB]

I don't understand all this weight and payload stuff.
Ours is deffo 3,850 and i can get all the stuff we want in with space to spare.............................then again we don't carry heaps of crap.

Have you actually weighed it full?

I've only got 1350kg of Payload and we use most of it, filled with essential items.

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[bobnick]

One day i think i will out of curiosity.

 

[lunarman]

Trevor Wbm

When I bought our 2015 Autograph 740 I took it to a weighbridge prior to purchase and found that the overall payload was workable for 2 people. However the back axle was too close for comfort and would not have been workable when fully laden and with 2 electric bikes on the back,
The back axle is rated at 2000kg and the design of the van has placed most of the storage and heavy equipment either directly over or behind the axle, add the that quite a long overhang with 70kg of bikes and rack then the axle is over loaded. The solution was to put air support on the suspension and higher rated tyres at a cost of around £2k.

The TPMS system is a pain as well. The wheels are programmed to the corner they are originally fitted to and the manufactures recommended pressure for that axle, so you cannot rotate the wheels from back to front and set the pressures in the tyres as recommended without having the warning light constantly alight. Also you cannot reduce the rear axle pressure from the 80psi recommended pressure without the constant warning. The system can be reprogrammed with the right software peugeot quoted £300 to do it.

Looking at the photo you loaded, there is a grill behind the window in the shower room this is non standard why has it been added?

 

[Trevor Wbm]

As others have mensioned a damp floor is a problem with them and it won't be Euro 6 it will be either Euro 5 or Euro 5+.

A bigger problem is payload, it will be fine it it's on the heavy chassis 4250kg but a lots were sold on the light 3500kg chassis. It is very unlikely that a 7. 5m van can be run at 3500kg.

Food for thought, certainly. Typically we travel light, and I've asked for a very chunky towbar to be removed as we'll never use it.

Gone into 'pondering' mode now ...

 

[Trevor Wbm]

Trevor Wbm

When I bought our 2015 Autograph 740 I took it to a weighbridge prior to purchase and found that the overall payload was workable for 2 people. However the back axle was too close for comfort and would not have been workable when fully laden and with 2 electric bikes on the back,
The back axle is rated at 2000kg and the design of the van has placed most of the storage and heavy equipment either directly over or behind the axle, add the that quite a long overhang with 70kg of bikes and rack then the axle is over loaded. The solution was to put air support on the suspension and higher rated tyres at a cost of around £2k.

The TPMS system is a pain as well. The wheels are programmed to the corner they are originally fitted to and the manufactures recommended pressure for that axle, so you cannot rotate the wheels from back to front and set the pressures in the tyres as recommended without having the warning light constantly alight. Also you cannot reduce the rear axle pressure from the 80psi recommended pressure without the constant warning. The system can be reprogrammed with the right software peugeot quoted £300 to do it.

Looking at the photo you loaded, there is a grill behind the window in the shower room this is non standard why has it been added?

Was that plated at 3.5 tonnes or more?

Not my photo ... I think Mzracer pulled it off t'internet to show the finish.

 

[lunarman]

Was that plated at 3.5 tonnes or more?

Not my photo ... I think Mzracer pulled it off t'internet to show the finish.

It was plated at 3500kg when I bought it I updated it to 3850kg when I increased the back axle to 2240.

A lot of people criticise Bailey vans for damp however by 2015 those problems had been overcome ours never had any problems with damp and I thought it was a well put together and spacious van.