Power supply or charger?
- Thread starter monzer
- Start date
Power supply is a constant voltage, charger will go through different voltage/current stages to make sure a battery is charged safely and fully.
Orion I presume? What are you using it for?
OP
OP
Yes orion. It was fitted along with 2 new KS batteries to maximise charging when driving. The fitters took the easy route and didn't wire it in as I wanted so I'm not getting the full charging potential while driving.
That's to be fixed another day but right now I was just wondering about those 2 different options. Yesterday I seemed to be getting highest charge from power source.
That's to be fixed another day but right now I was just wondering about those 2 different options. Yesterday I seemed to be getting highest charge from power source.
In what way?
OP
OP
Something to do with the fridge and split charge relay I think. It has been mentioned on here before but it goes over my head.
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OK. Without knowing the specifics it's probably best to leave it as is until someone looks it over and can check the cable sizes etc.
TerryL
LIFE MEMBER
I had a Sterling B2B for years, probably the most useful bit of kit I've bought due to the type of touring we do, but it packed up on the way to Malvern/Pershore. Bought a new Victron at the show and managed to fit it at Pershore after getting some new cables - the guy who fitted the original must have worked for CEGB, those cables were huge and I couldn't make them fit the new unit.
Can't see why there were any "problems" fitting your new unit, mine is fitted one cable to leisure battery, one to the engine battery and a common earth, basically just replacing the original cables. It all works exactly as expected in the instructions once, like the OP, I had worked out the difference between power supply and charging. I don't have a split-charge relay but the connections don't go anywhere near them according to the Victron instructions. The Bluetooth app is great for keeping an eye on things.
Edit - just remembered I've got a new big fuse to be fitted as I didn't get the right connectors for it. Another job to do before next trip.
Can't see why there were any "problems" fitting your new unit, mine is fitted one cable to leisure battery, one to the engine battery and a common earth, basically just replacing the original cables. It all works exactly as expected in the instructions once, like the OP, I had worked out the difference between power supply and charging. I don't have a split-charge relay but the connections don't go anywhere near them according to the Victron instructions. The Bluetooth app is great for keeping an eye on things.
Edit - just remembered I've got a new big fuse to be fitted as I didn't get the right connectors for it. Another job to do before next trip.
You were replacing one brand of B2B for another B2B, so no problems. The OP is converting a split charge relay charging method to a B2B method, so the split charge relay has to be disabled. Or maybe then B2B amps flows through the split charge relay, that's another way of doing it. Not a big problem, but it needs thinking about. Also you want to avoid problems with other things like the fridge, that might be affected by the wiring changes.
OP
OP
That's what my situation is. In hindsight I should have confirmed with the fitter the way they were wiring it but I'd presumed if they knew I was wanting a B2B I'd prefer it to be putting as much in as possible.
I think the most I've had out it was 14amps with batteries at 50%. It's capable of double that.
Maybe the B2B is pushing out 30A, but the fridge is taking nearly 15A. As you say, it should be wired directly to the battery to push he full 30A into the battery, and the fridge should be powered separately from the alternator.
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OP
OP
I'm confusing myself now
pretty sure my fridge only runs off engine battery when I physically select it at the fridge control. If it isn't selected I don't think the engine battery is powering it, even with engine on. But as far as I understand the way my setup is wired means I'm losing out on power from the B2B.
The fitter did say to get the full power from the orion unit it would need some rewiring. This would be to make sure I still have the ability to work the fridge of the engine battery if I so choose.
Hope that makes sense.
You could try switching off the fridge when the engine is running, to see if the amps goes up from 14A to nearly 30A
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Just make sure your alternator can cope with 30A for the DC-DC and another 15A for the fridge (45A total). Most alternators can, but there are some that can't. One of the reasons that Victron went with 30A is that it's a safe bet for virtually all modern alternators. If your alternator is 80A you could be somewhat close to the limit when everything else in the cab is drawing power (lights, chargers, fan, engine etc).I'm confusing myself now
But as far as I understand the way my setup is wired means I'm losing out on power from the B2B.
The fitter did say to get the full power from the orion unit it would need some rewiring. This would be to make sure I still have the ability to work the fridge of the engine battery if I so choose.
Hope that makes sense.
I presume you're B524 is a Hymer B524, if you let us know what year it is and or what model of elektroblock you have we may be able to offer more assistance, my Hymer S820 has two split charge relays one for the fridge and one for the leisure battery charging, if yours is like mine you can safely disable the split charge relay that enables leisure battery charging, my fridge is an AES one so if set to automatic it will only run on the engine battery when the engine is running, it automatically selects gas or 240v depending on if you're on hookup or not. The B2B will only provide the amount of amps that the battery can accept, I think this is relative to the batteries internal resistance, some batteries like Lithium have low internal resistance so will accept a greater charge current, other types have greater resistance and won't accept as higher current, I have three 100ah lead carbon gel batteries but the highest charge current i've experienced is 18ahs, it is also a Victron 30ah charger.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Yes, 2002 Hymer B524 with the Elektroblock 99
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Okay, that should be the same as mine pretty much, you should be able to find a wiring diagram for the EBL on the internet even if you can't do it yourself, the diagram will be handy for an auto electrician to disable your split charge relay, also how old is your alternator? It may be time for an upgrade in which case get the highest rated that will fit, to give the B2B plenty of power, I have a 200ah on mine. I presume your KS batteries are lithium so make sure you have your B2B set to lithium if they are.
If it's an EBL99 there are three good ways to install a B2B, and there are no complications with other functions like the fridge because there is a separate wire already provided for them.
Near the starter battery there should be two fuses, a 50A for the split charge relay and a 20A for the fridge and other things. The wire with the 50A fuse goes to the back of the EBL, into a terminal block marked 'SB' (Starter Battery). The three options are
1. Pull the 50A fuse, ignore the wire, and wire the B2B directly to the starter battery and leisure battery using new wires and fuses.
2. Remove the 'SB' wire from the back of the EBL, and connect it to the starter battery input of the B2B. Then run a new wire from the leisure battery output of the B2B to the leisure battery. Leave the 50A fuse in place.
3. Remove the 'SB' wire from the back of the EBL, and connect it to the starter battery input of the B2B. Then run a new wire from the leisure battery output of the B2B to the 'SB' terminal at the back of the EBL. Leave the 50A fuse in place.
Option 1 is required for a high-power B2B, anything much more than about 30A. Option 3 sends the charging amps through the split charge relay, and also through the shunt that measures the amps. With option 2 you lose the amps measurement because the charging amps doesn't go through the shunt. Not a big problem as long as you are aware of it.
With a 60A B2B, you'd have to use option 1. With a 30A B2B any of the three options can be used.
Other functions like the fridge, starter battery charging on mains, and starter battery voltage measurement, all work through the other wire with the 20A fuse, so they are not affected.
Near the starter battery there should be two fuses, a 50A for the split charge relay and a 20A for the fridge and other things. The wire with the 50A fuse goes to the back of the EBL, into a terminal block marked 'SB' (Starter Battery). The three options are
1. Pull the 50A fuse, ignore the wire, and wire the B2B directly to the starter battery and leisure battery using new wires and fuses.
2. Remove the 'SB' wire from the back of the EBL, and connect it to the starter battery input of the B2B. Then run a new wire from the leisure battery output of the B2B to the leisure battery. Leave the 50A fuse in place.
3. Remove the 'SB' wire from the back of the EBL, and connect it to the starter battery input of the B2B. Then run a new wire from the leisure battery output of the B2B to the 'SB' terminal at the back of the EBL. Leave the 50A fuse in place.
Option 1 is required for a high-power B2B, anything much more than about 30A. Option 3 sends the charging amps through the split charge relay, and also through the shunt that measures the amps. With option 2 you lose the amps measurement because the charging amps doesn't go through the shunt. Not a big problem as long as you are aware of it.
With a 60A B2B, you'd have to use option 1. With a 30A B2B any of the three options can be used.
Other functions like the fridge, starter battery charging on mains, and starter battery voltage measurement, all work through the other wire with the 20A fuse, so they are not affected.
OP
OP
Great information as usual. Much appreciated.
I'll find out exactly how they have wired it when I get a moment. I can figure out how to go from there.
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