Portugal 90 day rule...

[Garry - June]

On another thread about this subject i made a comment about the "Onus of Proof" that is required by Law enforcement agencies in the EU with many slating me that this could not be true... this morning this article was posted on another site by the well regarded N332 (ex Police) group... makes interesting reading and backs up exactly the point i was making....

N332 & CAR REGISTRATIONS SPAIN

- Driving a Foreign Registered Vehicle in Spain

BASIC RULES
As a general rule, a non-resident can drive a foreign registered vehicle in Spain for up to six months in a calendar year. However for a Spanish resident, it’s just 30 days from the date the vehicle first entered the country. In all cases the vehicle needs to be fully legal in the country of current registration. So for example, if you have a UK vehicle then it must be taxed, have a current MOT and of course be insured.

OVERSTAYING
If you drive your vehicle for longer than this, Spanish authorities may consider that you are importing the vehicle and issue you with a notice to pay the import taxes and customs duties if applicable as well as an associated fine.

DOCUMENTATION
When driving in Spain, it is mandatory to carry a driving licence, original vehicle registration document (logbook), passport or ID card and for a foreign registered vehicle proof of insurance. If your driving licence is non EU then you may also need an International Driving Permit (IDP).

PROOF OF ENTRY
It’s also essential when driving a foreign vehicle that you have adequate proof of when your vehicle entered Spain, in case you're stopped as the onus will be on you to provide this. Normal proof could be a ferry ticket, eurotunnel receipt, border crossing documentation (such as a stamped date in your passport), toll receipts that show the date and time of entry or a transport company delivery note and invoice.

CONFISCATION
When stopped, if you cannot satisfy the police or Guardia Civil that your car hasn’t outstayed it’s welcome then they are within their rights to impound your vehicle. To retrieve your vehicle you will have to pay any fines issued along with any tow truck and storage fees. You may also have to pay any import taxes or customs duty if applicable. (You will also need to show a valid drivers licence and proof of insurance when you collect the vehicle).

 

[Diabalo]

Clear enough

 

[EuroTrotters]

Where is the relevance to Portugal and the 90/180 day rules please?

(asked in a nice friendly tone)

 

[Garry - June]

Where is the relevance to Portugal and the 90/180 day rules please?

(asked in a nice friendly tone)

Because this is applicable to Portugal and Spain.. My point was on the Question of proof.. and the onus on the individual to prove where they have been and for how long if asked by the authorities... for example if you were shown to have overstayed it is up to you to provide why or why not that may be the case...it is not up to the authorities to prove otherwise.

 

[DelMar]

When you arrive your passport is stamped by the Police. When you leave your passport is again stamped by the Police, therefore they know exactly how long you have stayed in Europe. All anyone has to do is check your passport your arrival date will be there.

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[nicholsong]

Because this is applicable to Portugal and Spain.. My point was on the Question of proof.. and the onus on the individual to prove where they have been and for how long if asked by the authorities... for example if you were shown to have overstayed it is up to you to provide why or why not that may be the case...it is not up to the authorities to prove otherwise.

When you arrive your passport is stamped by the Police. When you leave your passport is again stamped by the Police, therefore they know exactly how long you have stayed in Europe. All anyone has to do is check your passport your arrival date will be there.

On the other thread I asked what law puts the 'onus of proof' on the individual.

The N332 forum is written by ex-policemen and we know that policemen the world over often like to assume powers that are not backed up by law, so I am still awaiting a response that tells me what laws in which countries put the onus of proof on the individual.

If you remember the other thread was about circulation of people resident in EU countries and subject to the 90/180 day rule outside there country of residence.

As to the suggestion in the N332 quote that any non-Spanish registered vehicle owner circulating in Spain from another EU country should have obtained an entry stamp, that is simply ridiculous, because there are no border controls and if there were at some crossings the queues would be enormous. Then what about the high roads in the Pyrenees?

Again the N332 publication does not quote a law to back up its advice.

I await proper legal justification.

 

[DavidCh]

As I think I said before in the southern European countries it’s all ok, until it isn’t.