poland - trip 2010

[RuthRv]

well I have always wanted to go to Auschwitz, to pay my utmost respects to all who died, and those who survived, upon mentioning this at various meets it would appear that others would be interested in this also, so I have taken a deep breath, and I am now dipping my toes in the water.

Thoughts are, travel dover-calais. Via bruge, antwerp, border at arken Germany, cologne, dortmund, kassel, leipseig, dresden, border at gorlitz, Poland, wroclaw - krakow. This will take 2-3 days (without rushing)

I have sent e-mails to some sites in krakow to see if they can accommodate the larger rv's as well as european and smaller motorhomes, so will update as and when.

We are not going when it is cold, so as we are anticipating a three week time scale for the whole trip and that some of you may want to take your children/grandchildren etc with you (word of caution though it is recommended that under 14's do not go to Auschwitz as it could be quite distressing for them, however you all know whether it would be suitable and is entirely your decision.) so to accommodate school holidays etc we are thinking of august 2010.

So if any of you are interested, please let me know and I can then give the site an idea of how many m/h to expect. All bookings to be made individually, travel alone or together, which ever suits, stay where you want along the way, but obviously we need to arrive at krakow at same time, then for those that which to do the Tour there are plenty of tours in krakow which we could book, there are tours that take in Auschwitz and Birkinau.

So now that I have tentively grabbed the bull by the horns, what are your thoughts, all help and opinions will be gratefully received.:thumb:

 

[RuthRv]

I have already received a reply from one campsite (impressed or what) they can take over 20 of us and discounts are likely, this one can take large rv's but need to know how many large ones would be coming. I know that most of you will be thinking that this is way too early but trips like this take some organisation so the earlier the better. Obviously we are all aware of not knowing what is going to happen prior to August next year but in the main, if you are interested then yo could pencil it in and confirm nearer the date.

thanks

ruth

 

[Bulletguy]

well I have always wanted to go to Auschwitz, to pay my utmost respects to all who died, and those who survived, upon mentioning this at various meets it would appear that others would be interested in this also, so I have taken a deep breath, and I am now dipping my toes in the water.

I toured many east German ww2 sites last year with the purpose of eventually heading out to Auschwitz via Czech and into Poland.

If Auschwitz is your first time visit to a Concentration Camp, then i would highly recommend you make a slight detour and visit either Dachau or Sachsenhausen.

Auschwitz is very good but i found the tour too 'commercial'. The place is huge and there are actually two camps, the other being Birkenau which you are taken to in a bus. It has the unfortunate distinction of being the most visited of all the camps which they like to rather grandly announce on a board almost like a production factory boasting about its output. Visitors are taken round by guides relevant to their nationalities so there are throngs of people often bumping into one another. Despite going early morning i still felt i was being rushed around too much. Plan to spend an entire day there.

Dachau and Sachenhausen by comparison are both quite horrific and you need nerves of steel and a heart of granite to get through. I don't mind admitting that i had to take a bit of time out half way round as it was extremely harrowing. But thats exactly why i'd recommend either or both of them for a first time visit. Dachau is near Munich and Sachsenhausen just a few miles north west of Berlin.

As for a campsite near Auschwitz, i stayed at this one which is a very nice site Link Removed and one i'd recommend to anyone though i'm not so sure they would accommodate 30+ft RV's. Auschwitz (Oswiecim) is about 30 miles away and an easy drive. Krakow city centre is a cheap bus ride away and well worth seeing.

Make sure your suspension is in good order too. Polish roads are very rough in places but then you have to remember, Hitlers tanks drove along these roads. Get out into the rural areas of Poland and not a lot has changed since!

 

[RuthRv]

Hi Bulletguy
we were thinking of dachau, on our way home, I have already e-mailed the site that you mentioned, just waiting for their reply, Know about the roads Tony (aka Tony Santara my other half was an international driver for many years so he drives I clean)
thanks very much for your input every little helps:thumb:

 

[Bulletguy]

....some of you may want to take your children/grandchildren etc with you (word of caution though it is recommended that under 14's do not go to Auschwitz as it could be quite distressing for them, however you all know whether it would be suitable and is entirely your decision.)

In Germany it is a compulsory requirement for schoolchildren to be taken around a concentration camp as part of their education. Usually they are taken just before their school holiday begins.

I spoke with a German school teacher who was taking her class around Dachau and as she put it, "it means nothing to them.....they either are not interested or simply fail to comprehend it."

I went for the simple reason that ww2 history was never taught when i was at school.....and that was the only history i was interested in. But i was born only five years after the war ended so it was something few people would ever talk about.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[RuthRv]

I went for the simple reason that ww2 history was never taught when i was at school.....and that was the only history i was interested in. But i was born only five years after the war ended so it was something few people would ever talk about.[/QUOTE]

same here, I just think that it is something that should never be forgotten and the only way it won't be forgotten is to include it in the school curiculam, and I for one ensured that my children knew about it. we can only hope:thumb:

 

[peaps]

Hi Ruth
Sounds Great put us on the list

Pete:thumb:

 

[RuthRv]

Hi Ruth
Sounds Great put us on the list

Pete:thumb:

will do Pete, i will put you on my list I am not putting it in the calendar just yet, until details are more clarified. need to know the length of your rv pls, be great to have you along

 

[Bulletguy]

Hi Bulletguy
we were thinking of dachau, on our way home, I have already e-mailed the site that you mentioned, just waiting for their reply, Know about the roads Tony (aka Tony Santara my other half was an international driver for many years so he drives I clean)
thanks very much for your input every little helps:thumb:

Dachau is an absolute must Ruth......don't miss out on it.

From Dachau it's also worth giving Nuremburg a visit which is only about 120 miles due north of Dachau. There you will find the Zeppelinfeld (Zeppelin field) which was where Hitler held his rallies. The building still stands today.

After passing through Leipzig another 'must see' is Colditz Castle which isn't that far. It is a truly magnificent castle and the tour is very relaxed and informative. Though some restoration work has been done, it has been carefully carried out. The Chapel where a major escape attempt was made is eerily untouched and still remains as it was over 60 years ago!
Oddly enough it doesn't mean an awful lot to German people, but of course bears great historical significance to us.

I could go on here (you have me on my favourite subject!) as there is so much more to see. I am going back to re-visit Berlin again this year as i found it such an amazing place.....and thats coming from a guy who usually finds cities boring and uninteresting!

 

[peaps]

Hi again Ruth

34 feet short so only a baby compared to yours

Pete

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[bigfoot]

There ia a campsite in Nuremberg behind the football stadium in a large forested area.
I will look through my records to see if I can find any more details.

 

[Losos]

Hi Ruth,

August 2010 actually isn't that far off when planning something like this, as it happens I won't be able to join you in Poland but I expect to be doing the 'E40' route quite often so I will keep an eye on this thread and might overnight at one of the stopevers you select just to meet up with some of the funsters again.

 

[upmarkethippy]

poland adventure

hi,
I had already decided Poland was a place to visit next year so I might as well join in with you. Cheers Cheyne

 

[New Rover]

I happened to be visiting my daughter in Germany in 2005 and by sheer chance I visited Bergen-Belsen 50 years to the day after its liberation.
The visit was an experience that I shall never forget and whilst there I saw the grave of Anne Frank as well as the mass graves of thousands of others.
I left there very aware of what horrors were carried out by a few people in places of power during that time and I agree that the children of our time should be taught about the History of WWII including the "Holocaust".

 

[Xoxoc]

Hi Ruth,

Pencil Suzy and I in for this one :thumb:
25 foot

Well done Ruthy

Bryan

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[chrismacgowan]

Poland

Can you pencil me in. I recently did a charity drive from Trafalgar Square to Red Square and I found Poland firstly fascinating and secondly a very large country indeed!!

Sincerely

Christopher

 

[scotjimland]

Hi Ruth

we would love to come on this trip, Jan and I have often talked about visiting but as Chaz will only be 10 feel she is too young to visit. One day for sure, I think it's a trip everyone should do..

Good luck with the plans..

Cheers

Jim n Jan

 

[Geo]

I happened to be visiting my daughter in Germany in 2005 and by sheer chance I visited Bergen-Belsen 50 years to the day after its liberation.
The visit was an experience that I shall never forget and whilst there I saw the grave of Anne Frank as well as the mass graves of thousands of others.
I left there very aware of what horrors were carried out by a few people in places of power during that time and I agree that the children of our time should be taught about the History of WWII including the "Holocaust".

Hi Ruth

we would love to come on this trip, Jan and I have often talked about visiting but as Chaz will only be 10 feel she is too young to visit. One day for sure, I think it's a trip everyone should do..

Good luck with the plans..

Cheers

Jim n Jan

Do you think so Jim/
Chaz I understand is educated by yourself and Jan, could be an opportunity to include this delicate subject along with WW2 into her history lessons culminating in a visit.
Im not sure myself how I would approach it though, are 10 year olds, older and wiser than we give them credit for
Geo

 

[scotjimland]

Do you think so Jim/
Chaz I understand is educated by yourself and Jan, could be an opportunity to include this delicate subject along with WW2 into her history lessons culminating in a visit.
Im not sure myself how I would approach it though, are 10 year olds, older and wiser than we give them credit for
Geo

Hi Geo

Jan and I have discussed this at length and read advice from the various holocaust sites which say there is no age limit but advise on a minimum age of 14 .

Chaz is indeed older than her years, I put that down to mixing more with adults than kids, to address that balance she attends the Brownies and has joined a Majorette dance group..
I'm often surprised by the questions she asks.. just the other day while out walking she ask why the birds don't get killed sitting on overhead power lines.. try explaining that to an 8 year old.. hard enough on here to adults ..

Back to the question.. I still believe that it would be too traumatic for her, one I wouldn't like to expose her to until she can fully understand.. even then it will be a very upsetting experience .. many adults find it overwhelming..

Jim

 

[Geo]

Hi Geo

Jan and I have discussed this at length and read advice from the various holocaust sites which say there is no age limit but advise on a minimum age of 14 .

Chaz is indeed older than her years, I put that down to mixing more with adults than kids, to address that balance she attends the Brownies and has joined a Majorette dance group..
I'm often surprised by the questions she asks.. just the other day while out walking she ask why the birds don't get killed sitting on overhead power lines.. try explaining that to an 8 year old.. hard enough on here to adults ..

Back to the question.. I still believe that it would be too traumatic for her, one I wouldn't like to expose her to until she can fully understand.. even then it will be a very upsetting experience .. many adults find it overwhelming..

Jim

Maybe thats why it's not part of the general curriculumoh:
Geo

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[New Rover]

Geo and Jim.
I believe that Jim has the right idea and maybe it would be too daunting for a 10 year old to make an actual visit to any of the Concentration Camp Sites.
If Jim allows his daughter to read up on the subject first of all, screening the more upsetting pictorial information to see how she accepts the subject and then deciding later if he thinks she is ready for actually visiting in person.
Only a personal thought.

 

[JockandRita]

Hi Ruth,

I have only just seen your post, and as with our discussion between us recently, we would be very interested. Could you pencil us in provisionally please, at a length of 28ft (8.5mtrs, with the bikes on ).

As we are off to Munich this year, I may well visit the Dachau site, pending Rita's wishes obviously, as this type of visit isn't for everybody.

(Thanks to Bulletguy, for all the additional info. We are camping at Erding for the Oktoberfest, and Dachau only appears to be about 40 mins away.)

Cheers for now,

Jock.

 

[Bulletguy]

There does seem a certain reluctance amongst a few about taking young children around a Concentration Camp. I can understand the reasons but i'd look at it like this;

Few, if any children, are even remotely aware or interested about anything concerning WW2. For most it is way beyond their comprehension and even the more intelligent and mature, the interest simply isn't there because these events occured almost sixty five years ago.

However it is a perfect example to illustrate to a youngster, the reality of race hate and manic phobia against anyone or anything which does not quite 'fit' with your own agenda or ideologies. We don't need to look much further than our own red top rag papers to see the race hate which is being whipped up on a daily basis.

The dreadful hate meted out to the Jewish population is well known. But it did not stop there. Interned in these camps were Russians, Poles, Jehovahs Witness's, Homosexuals, Gypsies, German 'criminals', German dissenters, even SS who had fallen out of favour with Hitler. In other words....anyone who did not conform to the Nazi ideology. The Russians were given a terrible time and ranked only just above that of the Jew, but the most respected amongst all prisoners were the Jehovahs Witness people who would share what little food they had with anyone, even if it meant them going without.

These camps are a very good place to learn the outcome of hate and fear.

 

[Jim]

There does seem a certain reluctance amongst a few about taking young children around a Concentration Camp. I can understand the reasons but i'd look at it like this;

Few, if any children, are even remotely aware or interested about anything concerning WW2. For most it is way beyond their comprehension and even the more intelligent and mature, the interest simply isn't there because these events occured almost sixty five years ago.
.

My kids were interested in WW2, especially the boy. The words might go over their head when they are very young but images tend to stay with them for a while. IMO pre-teens need protecting from these images. I would not take my 8 year-old to a concentration camp. She has plenty of time to learn about the dark side of the world she lives in when she is better able to put in in perspective.

 

[Geo]

My kids were interested in WW2, especially the boy. The words might go over their head when they are very young but images tend to stay with them for a while. IMO pre-teens need protecting from these images. I would not take my 8 year-old to a concentration camp. She has plenty of time to learn about the dark side of the world she lives in when she is better able to put in in perspective.

Dont do it Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! she does not need to know about Facts
Sorry could not resist, did you have any bets on who would pick up on it Jim
Apollagies to Ruth for hijacking this thread, I shall return it to its rightfull content

Put me and Pammy down please 35Ft. 7.3/8ths:thumb:
But then you knew that didnt youoh:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Jim]

 

[Bulletguy]

...pre-teens need protecting from these images.

Why is it the same kids sit with their parents watching trash tv and reading the bile spewed out from rag mag papers?

I would have thought those are the 'images' which kids need protecting from.

Oh i forgot....it's called 'entertainment'.

 

[chrismacgowan]

Yes to poland!

Ruth

Have already signalled my interest - best contact details are e-mail christopher@christophermacgowan.com

Look forward to hearing from you - happy to assist in the event you need assistance but you look pretty organised already!!

Christopher

 

[nomadic]

Poland Trip

Hi Ruth,

Lynda and I are due to revisit Finland in 2010, and we are quite sure with a little adjustment with dates etc, we could and would like to join the gang, so please count us in.

We have a 27 foot coach built M/H

Thanks very much.


Nomadic (Neville)

 

[AlanVal]

Would really be interested in this one.We are changing our Autostratus for a S520 Hymer its only 5.8 long...

Val

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}