Please help me deciding which EcoFlow set-up to go for

[Tiger Bear]

I am about to purchase our first power bank/station. I initially looked at Vtoman because it looked like you got a lot more for your money, but was then put off by the poor reviews relating to limited warranty, breakdowns, and customer service. I then looked at Aferiy but was put off for similar reasons as Vtoman.
I am almost certain it will be now be an EcoFlow; they appear to have a good track record, decent warranty, and get name checked on here many times more than the first two mentioned brands, and come in a little bit cheaper than the other brand I was looking at, Anker.

Not knowing anything about power banks/stations than what I have read during my research, I am hoping that experienced and more knowledgeable Funsters can help me with my decision making.


I want one to serve our purposes for at least three days off grid, and wish to use it for the following applications:

• occasionally use of an air fryer; the one I have repurposed from home is 2000/2400w, so will save that for when we have EHU. I have just ordered a 1350w one for when we are off grid,
• very occasional use of a toaster,
• keeping laptop, tablets, and phones charged up,
• keeping the 24v/6Ah lithium batteries for our lass's wheelchair topped up

Further to the above, I have just bought an Avtex TV/DVD, but presumably that won't use much juice when plugged into the leisure battery 12v outlet, will it?


I am looking at the EcoFlow Delta 2, and perhaps pairing it with a 400w solar panel.

Would the 1800w output of the Delta 2 as a standalone item be sufficient for my needs, or should I be looking at the max instead, again as a standalone item, or go with the Delta 2 paired with an additional battery?
Should I hold off on the portable solar panel until we get more sun?
Should I look at an alternator charger as an alternative to a solar panel? Obviously, only of use if we are travelling from campsite to campsite, rather than staying put for two or three days.

Thanks in advance for your input folks

 

[Landy Andy]

I think the Ecoflow alternator is a must, and a far better idea than solar unless you are staying put for a long time.

Very happy with my Delta 2, can’t fault it.

Why are you going for power pack, not a lithium setup in the van?

 

[Cush]

I’m happy with the anker but it DOESNT have a fast charge 12v / solar port (orange one with the little extra pin).

 

[fishplug]

I saw something just yesterday about the new Jackery 2000 V2. Supposed to be smaller and lighter than other 2Kw power banks and again a respected brand.

Don't know if size and weight are a consideration and have no idea how the specs compare but thought I'd mention it as it's the first 'interesting' power bank review I've seen for a while.

I keep dipping in and out of learning about them and in the early days there were so many advances being made with better tech, more power, quieter inverters, regulated outputs then USB-C came along...

It all sort of settled down and most of them started to have pretty much the same features as standard. Thought I'd check in on them again to see if the drop in lithium battery prices had trickled down to power banks and saw the Jackery being pitched at a space and weight saving mindset (e.g. us lot!)

One day I'll find a reason why I need one, but for now I'll live quite happily with my 12v system.

 

[PlacidoD]

I have a Delta 2 plus a solar panel. They were bought late last year and so have not really been used in anger yet. My thoughts:

• 20 mins of your air-fryer use will make a big dent in available power on a Delta 2 but no problem if you can then top up.
• You should get circa 17 hours of TV use out of a Delta 2
• a 400W solar panel is a big beast and will act like a sail in gusty conditions. I went with a 160W which I plan to put on the windscreen overnight. It should be easy to secure there with a few shock cords. Also do bare in mind weight as well as bulk. (My plan is to aim to park up facing east and have the panel replenishing the Delta 2 while I am sorting breakfast and my morning shower). A 220W panel might prove more manageable although plainly recharge times will be longer. Do think through carefully how you can leave the panel secure when you go out for the day and/or the pfaff of stowing it while out for a couple of hours.
• The Delta 2 is relatively portable. The Delta 2 Max strikes me as bulky. Where would you stow it both for travel and use?
• The alternator charger may make sense if you can self-install. But the whole point of me having a Delta 2 is that it is uneconomic for me to invest in a complete lithium system given the age of my MoHo. The Delta 2 will allow me to use my electric grill and coffee pod machine without an EHU. If I ever get round to spending megabucks on a van then a full lithium system with an inverter is likely.
• My off-grid use is limited. I tend to overnight and then move on unless on a site with EHU and I want to be able to cope over two nights when it suits. Your intended use pattern is rather different. In particular I have no knowledge that would inform me of wheel-chair battery recharging
• Your more intensive use may make a basic 100Ah Lithium leisure battery a sensible consideration especially if you already have a rooftop solar panel. You could power lighting and TV etc off that 12V system leaving the Delta 2 inverter exclusively for occasional pure 240V use. You could get away with just a B2B to go with a circa 100Ah lithium battery. That is the route I expect to go down eventually!
• Finally FYI my intended use is mainly mainland Europe where there is more sunshine.

Hope that helps?!

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[autorouter]

Would the 1800w output of the Delta 2 as a standalone item be sufficient for my needs, or should I be looking at the max instead, again as a standalone item, or go with the Delta 2 paired with an additional battery?

The Delta 2 (1024Wh) plus an additional battery (1024Wh) gives you a total battery storage capacity of 2048Wh. The inverter output capacity is 1800W.

The Delta 2 Max has a battery storage capacity of 2048Wh. The inverter output capacity is 2400W. You'd have to look at prices to see which of those is the more cost-effective option. However the Max would run your larger air fryer if you wanted to. I would think if you are definite about the extra battery with the Delta 2, then the Max would be a better option.

For comparison, a 1024Wh battery is equivalent to a 12V battery with a capacity of 1024/12 = 85Ah. The 2048Wh is equivalent to a 12V 170Ah battery. Usually a motorhome leisure battery is about 85Ah to 110Ah, and many people double these up.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I have the Anker 757
Not sure about the topping up of wheelchair batteries but my leisure batteries takes care of USB charging, phone, camera, laptop & tablets.
The powerbank is useful for 240v stuff, such as airfryer & toaster + coffee machine.
I have 120w solar on the roof for the leisure batteries [2x 100ah gel]
And 300w dokio folding panel for the powerbank, if necessary

Comments:
The Anker is adequate for my needs but given the choice again, I'd probably choose EcoFlow because it's considerably lighter weight [I don't know why]
The dokio folding panel works fine but is very flimsy - I need to find a stand(s) to hold it flat.

 

[Tiger Bear]

Thanks for the replies so far, folks
Better to have informed and polite replies on here than asking my sparky son. "You just don't get it, do you dad? Mum, tell him."

I'll respond to individual posts separately, probably with follow up questions.


In the meantime I have had a rethink about our intended usage.
We have sacked off the idea of using an air fryer, for now. If it were the seventies and we were in a tent, we wouldn't have that luxury. There are other means to cook food.
Having the ability to keep our lass's wheelchair batteries topped up is more important than having nice chips.


A single 24v / 6 Ah lithium wheelchair battery takes about two hours to charge at home, albeit we never let them go totally flat.
The charger has an input of 1.5 amps and outputs at 24v / 2 amps.

By my calculations, with an AC input of 240v, the charger runs at 360 watts. Therefore, I would be able to run it for up to 3 hours before the 1024Wh Delta 2 is exhausted. That is assuming 100% efficiency, which I know cannot be achieved.
Am I correct?

 

[Tiger Bear]

I think the Ecoflow alternator is a must, and a far better idea than solar unless you are staying put for a long time.

Very happy with my Delta 2, can’t fault it.

Why are you going for power pack, not a lithium setup in the van?

I think we will go the alternator charger route eventually, as we won't stay long enough in any one place to see the benefit of a portable solar panel. I may though, when we make the initial purchase, also get a smaller solar panel, perhaps 220w or smaller, and site it in the windscreen when we leave the van for a period of time; that way it will help top up the power bank a little.

As to your last question...
Although we have hired motorhomes in the US and Canada for about ten years, this is the first one we have owned. We want to give it a year first to see if we get the same pleasure from long term usage as we do when hiring for a month each year. With that in mind, and the fact that our initial outlay was more than we wanted to pay, we want to keep further expenditure down for now. If ownership turns out to be not for us, at least the power bank can be repurposed. If we decide we will continue with ownership, and look to travel more extensively, then there is no doubt that we will upgrade with a lithium and extra solar panel set-up.

 

[Tiger Bear]

I have a Delta 2 plus a solar panel. They were bought late last year and so have not really been used in anger yet. My thoughts:

• 20 mins of your air-fryer use will make a big dent in available power on a Delta 2 but no problem if you can then top up.
• You should get circa 17 hours of TV use out of a Delta 2
• a 400W solar panel is a big beast and will act like a sail in gusty conditions. I went with a 160W which I plan to put on the windscreen overnight. It should be easy to secure there with a few shock cords. Also do bare in mind weight as well as bulk. (My plan is to aim to park up facing east and have the panel replenishing the Delta 2 while I am sorting breakfast and my morning shower). A 220W panel might prove more manageable although plainly recharge times will be longer. Do think through carefully how you can leave the panel secure when you go out for the day and/or the pfaff of stowing it while out for a couple of hours.
• The Delta 2 is relatively portable. The Delta 2 Max strikes me as bulky. Where would you stow it both for travel and use?
• The alternator charger may make sense if you can self-install. But the whole point of me having a Delta 2 is that it is uneconomic for me to invest in a complete lithium system given the age of my MoHo. The Delta 2 will allow me to use my electric grill and coffee pod machine without an EHU. If I ever get round to spending megabucks on a van then a full lithium system with an inverter is likely.
• My off-grid use is limited. I tend to overnight and then move on unless on a site with EHU and I want to be able to cope over two nights when it suits. Your intended use pattern is rather different. In particular I have no knowledge that would inform me of wheel-chair battery recharging
• Your more intensive use may make a basic 100Ah Lithium leisure battery a sensible consideration especially if you already have a rooftop solar panel. You could power lighting and TV etc off that 12V system leaving the Delta 2 inverter exclusively for occasional pure 240V use. You could get away with just a B2B to go with a circa 100Ah lithium battery. That is the route I expect to go down eventually!
• Finally FYI my intended use is mainly mainland Europe where there is more sunshine.

Hope that helps?!

Thanks for the detailed response, PlacidoD; I appreciate it and it has given me food for thought.

As per post #8, we have sacked off the idea of using an air fryer; therefore, the primary use for now will be to keep our lass's wheelchair batteries topped up.

Your idea of getting a 160w, as you have, or a 220w solar panel makes sense for the reasons you have given. As we don't intend to stay on a site for days, or even hours on end, I now realise we would not see the benefit of a large 400w panel. If we park up somewhere and go for a bimble, at least the smaller panel can sit in the windscreen and give a little bit more juice back to the power bank.

We may well go the alternator charger route, but not immediately. If the primary use is to keep the wheelchair batteries topped up, then just the standard Delta 2, and maybe a smaller solar panel, should be fine to start with. I have spied an extra (reconditioned) battery for £399. That could also be a future option.

Going the full lithium upgrade is not an option for us just now, as I have explained to my response to Landy Andy in post #9, but it is certainly a consideration for the future.

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[Tiger Bear]

The Delta 2 (1024Wh) plus an additional battery (1024Wh) gives you a total battery storage capacity of 2048Wh. The inverter output capacity is 1800W.

The Delta 2 Max has a battery storage capacity of 2048Wh. The inverter output capacity is 2400W. You'd have to look at prices to see which of those is the more cost-effective option. However the Max would run your larger air fryer if you wanted to. I would think if you are definite about the extra battery with the Delta 2, then the Max would be a better option.

For comparison, a 1024Wh battery is equivalent to a 12V battery with a capacity of 1024/12 = 85Ah. The 2048Wh is equivalent to a 12V 170Ah battery. Usually a motorhome leisure battery is about 85Ah to 110Ah, and many people double these up.

Thanks autorouter It's responses like this that make me realise I know nowt when it comes to the technology being discussed.
It wasn't until I read your response that it dawned on me that adding another battery only increases the length of time the two devices combined can last before becoming exhausted, and doesn't allow more power hungry devices to be used.

As per my recent responses at post #8 and post #9, the primary use has changed, so that affects the initial purchase.

 

[TheCaller]

A single 24v / 6 Ah lithium wheelchair battery takes about two hours to charge at home, albeit we never let them go totally flat.
The charger has an input of 1.5 amps and outputs at 24v / 2 amps.

By my calculations, with an AC input of 240v, the charger runs at 360 watts. Therefore, I would be able to run it for up to 3 hours before the 1024Wh Delta 2 is exhausted. That is assuming 100% efficiency, which I know cannot be achieved.
Am I correct?

The charger input figure of 1.5A will relate to the lowest input voltage it will work on, which will probably be 110V - i.e. 165W.
The output figure is probably a better guide. 24V at 2A = 48W. Chargers get warm, so are clearly not 100% efficient. Even if we assume 50% efficiency, that suggest an input of under 100W. Imagine an old style incandescent lamp inside a small metal box - how warm would that feel to the touch?

So let work backwards. 24V x 6Ah = 144Wh. Worst case the charger needs 288Wh to charge from flat. Allow for inverter inefficiently - say 10% loss, now we need 320Wh. I'm not sure if the wheelchair has 2 x 6Ah 12V batteries in series, 1 x 24V battery, or 2 x 24V batteries in parallel. The first is very common, the last implies a large wheelchair. If it is 2 x 24V, you now need 640Wh to fully charge both. But that assumes a very inefficient charger.

autorouter suggests that the Delta2 has 1024Wh & the Max has 2048Wh.

 

[Tiger Bear]

The charger input figure of 1.5A will relate to the lowest input voltage it will work on, which will probably be 110V - i.e. 165W.
The output figure is probably a better guide. 24V at 2A = 48W. Chargers get warm, so are clearly not 100% efficient. Even if we assume 50% efficiency, that suggest an input of under 100W. Imagine an old style incandescent lamp inside a small metal box - how warm would that feel to the touch?

So let work backwards. 24V x 6Ah = 144Wh. Worst case the charger needs 288Wh to charge from flat. Allow for inverter inefficiently - say 10% loss, now we need 320Wh. I'm not sure if the wheelchair has 2 x 6Ah 12V batteries in series, 1 x 24V battery, or 2 x 24V batteries in parallel. The first is very common, the last implies a large wheelchair. If it is 2 x 24V, you now need 640Wh to fully charge both. But that assumes a very inefficient charger.

autorouter suggests that the Delta2 has 1024Wh & the Max has 2048Wh.

Thanks for that

Yes, each battery has on it: 'power - 144Wh'
There are three 24v / 6Ah batteries in total, normally two are installed, with the third acting as a spare; the chair can run off just one battery.

From what you write, my assumption is correct that to charge one battery from flat to full may exhaust a 1024Wh in about 3 hours or less; have I got that correct?

 

[TheCaller]

From what you write, my assumption is correct that to charge one battery from flat to full may exhaust a 1024Wh in about 3 hours or less; have I got that correct?

No - Wh (Watt hour) is a measure of available or required power. So if you have 1024Wh available in your Delta battery & it takes 320Wh to charge a single wheelchair battery, you can charge that one battery about 3 times from your Delta before it is completely flat.

Realistically, the wheelchair battery wouldn't be completely flat & your battery charger is probably more efficient than I allowed for. However, you wouldn't want to completely flatten the Delta & anyway, you would want to run other things from it as well.

Ignoring any change in efficiency, how many amps the charger puts out only effects the time taken - the total power needed in Wh to charge a battery remains the same.

We can do the calculation a different way. If it takes a 24V 2A charger 3 hours to fully charge a battery from flat, then it requires 32V x 2A x 3hr = 192Wh to charge it. Note - 32V not 24V because a nominal 24V lithium ion battery probably rests at around 27V & needs a charging voltage of more than that to push current 'backwards' though the battery to charge it. 32V is a guess on my part - it may be less, unlikely to be more.

If the 3 hours is accurate, that suggests a more efficient charger than my worst case example. 192Wh to recharge a 162Wh battery - not too bad.

 

[TheCaller]

Note - voltages, current, amp hours etc printed on batteries & chargers are generally taken as 'nominal'. As an example, any '12V' battery that actually shows as 12V when measured by a meter, whether flooded lead acid, AGM, Gel or any variety of lithium chemistry, is effectively flat & thus useless as a source of power.

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[Tiger Bear]

TheCaller, many thanks for the explanation It further reinforces my belief that the standard Delta 2 will be suitable for it's now intended purpose.

 

[autorouter]

Yes, each battery has on it: 'power - 144Wh'

Technically, watt-hours is a measure of the battery energy capacity. Power is measured in watts, and is a measure of how fast the energy is supplied or used. So that label is incorrect, it should say Energy - 144Wh. But the marketing people only seem to have heard that power is measured in watts, so they label the watt-hours figure as 'power'

If the battery lasts for say 4 hours, then it is using energy at the rate of 144/4 = 36Wh per hour, or in other words the battery power is 36 watts.

I think the charging estimates are a bit on the pessimistic side. If a Delta 2 battery has a capacity of 1024Wh, then in theory it should fill the 144Wh battery 1024 / 144 = 7.1 times. In practice there will be some waste, but that's unlikely to be more than about 20%, modern electronics is reasonably efficient in that respect. So probably six times, and almost certainly five times.

 

[Tiger Bear]

Thanks autorouter
As per my response to TheCaller at post #16, and further reinforced by your subsequent response, I will be buying the Delta 2 to start with.
But hey, if you both want to get a room and continue to discuss the charging capacities, watts and amp hours, and other dooberry wotsits, then crack on!

 

[Tiger Bear]

Our lass has asked me, if we're now not going to use an air fryer, can we use a toaster? To be fair, in my opinion, toast is much better done in an electric toaster than under a slow burning grill; so, that's a yes from me.

I would expect that a two slice toaster of 1000w or less, used for just five minutes, isn't going to make much of a dent in a Delta 2, and there will still be enough juice left for the wheelchair batteries.

 

[PlacidoD]

The alternative for you to consider is a straight inverter plugged into your cigar lighter socket (NB you should look for a pure sine wave inverter. There are plenty on Amazon going for around £50.)
It sounds like you should be able to recharge a single wheelchair battery that way one at a time. But that of course assumes you have the engine running to recharge. So a Delta 2 will certainly gives you more flexibility if static for several days.
If acquiring a Delta 2 do go for a "reconditioned" off Ebay or Amazon. EcoFlow sell direct off both. My solar panel is supposedly reconditioned but in fact arrived pristine. Ecoflow are offering packages combining Delta 2 plus solar panels etc certainly on Ebay and maybe on Amazon as well. There is zero point in paying top dollar. Go for one of those offers (In my view they use that as a marketing device to keep the retail price high.)

P.S. There is now a Delta 3 but the upgrade is not massive - slightly faster recharge time and the ability to plug in two solar panels direct but that is about it. Not worth extra in my view!

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[Tiger Bear]

The alternative for you to consider is a straight inverter plugged into your cigar lighter socket (NB you should look for a pure sine wave inverter. There are plenty on Amazon going for around £50.)
It sounds like you should be able to recharge a single wheelchair battery that way one at a time. But that of course assumes you have the engine running to recharge. So a Delta 2 will certainly gives you more flexibility if static for several days.
If acquiring a Delta 2 do go for a "reconditioned" off Ebay or Amazon. EcoFlow sell direct off both. My solar panel is supposedly reconditioned but in fact arrived pristine. Ecoflow are offering packages combining Delta 2 plus solar panels etc certainly on Ebay and maybe on Amazon as well. There is zero point in paying top dollar. Go for one of those offers (In my view they use that as a marketing device to keep the retail price high.)

P.S. There is now a Delta 3 but the upgrade is not massive - slightly faster recharge time and the ability to plug in two solar panels direct but that is about it. Not worth extra in my view!

Thanks for the additional info.

Actually, on our last trip to the US, in May last year, we intended to do much more wild camping than campsites, so I was going to get an inverter from Walmart. As it happens I didn't need to. We were bang in the middle of a heatwave and temperatures often reached above 28°C of an evening, so we used many more campsites in order to have the A/C ramped up high; consequently, the batteries were getting topped up almost every night.

No, I've decided on a Delta 2; I can get a reconditioned one at £549.

I was thinking of getting a reconditioned 220w solar panel too but, as I want to have the flexibility of putting in the windscreen, at 183cm it will be too big. The 160w one is 157cm long, so that should be okay, and at £149 for a reconditioned one, is easier on the wallet.