P reg Ducato won't start . . .

Former Mechanic & Autoelectrician here. Unless all air is bled out of the High pressure Injector pipes the diesel will not spray into the cylinder. It should have a rotary injection pump with steel pipes connected to it going to the individual injectors which delivers fuel at about 5000 PSI if it does not have this type pump it then has a common rail system which has a very high preassure pump which operates at 15000bars which would drive fuel through your skin. A rotary injection pump requires fuel to be in the pump to lubricate it. Using Easy start if too much is used it can cause the engine to knock or even run backwards or if it does start if the injection pump does not have diesel in it's pump the pump can lock up and cease.
 
MarionK I would suggest that you sort out the faulty seal at the fuel filter first, even if there not a leak of fuel , air may be being drawn in which would cause all of your problems (it is possible that there is not any fuel in the filter to leak out ). There would be no point trying to bleed the injectors anyway until any possible air leak into the system is taken care of first and you may then even find that the engine starts , without the injectors needing to be bled . But , if needed, the injectors need to be the last point to be bled.
The engine you have has a Direct injection system. (not a common rail system)
 
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I am still thinking ecu problems. And it looks like other threads on this forum have had the same problem in the past.

had the same thing years ago and went through everything I could and a few head scratching mechanics .


also the fuel filter needs to be removed buy unplugging the sensor wire that has a plug along the wiring.
not by unscrewing the cap at the bottom of the fuel filter.

then the sensor will need to be put back on the fuel filter not cross threaded .

then screw the fuel filter back in to position while turning the sensor wire around at the same time when the fuel filter is nipped into position then reconnect the sensor a simple plug in.

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51861916 / 0281016051 - Fiat DUCATO 2.3 MAXI 130 ECU (Engine Management)

Common Faults: Engine management ECU problems for Fiat Ducato will often cause the vehicle to cut out and prevent starting of...
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One thing not mentioned yet, is diesel bug. The van has been laid up in cold damp weather, so the fuel could be bad and jellied
 
I have found that ensuring fuel is added to the filter canister when refitting and then topped up via top bolt this has aided to easier starting.

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MarionK Just to add , if you find that when you have sorted out the fuel filter problem there is not a mechanical fuel pump fitted to enable you to bleed it , it may be that a low pressure pre-supply pump (electrical, confirm it exists by checking if a fuse for a fuel pump is in the fuse box) is fitted. These pumps do not run all of the time and just operate for a few seconds when the ignition is turned on , to prime the fuel system , so to bleed the filter turn the ignition on for a few seconds then off then repeat this a few times to prime the system (you may hear the pump running for a short time each time you turn the ignition on , if your van has this system , instead of a mechanical fuel priming pump )
 
DJ Rory said:
Former Mechanic & Autoelectrician here. Unless all air is bled out of the High pressure Injector pipes the diesel will not spray into the cylinder. It should have a rotary injection pump with steel pipes connected to it going to the individual injectors which delivers fuel at about 5000 PSI if it does not have this type pump it then has a common rail system which has a very high preassure pump which operates at 15000bars which would drive fuel through your skin. A rotary injection pump requires fuel to be in the pump to lubricate it. Using Easy start if too much is used it can cause the engine to knock or even run backwards or if it does start if the injection pump does not have diesel in it's pump the pump can lock up and cease.
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Are they the pipes visible at the bottom of the picture of the engine block?
 
I haven't had time to do much more than look at things under the bonnet, hopefully I will be able to get some bits and pieces when I do the general shopping tomorrow.
I have found some very nasty rusting in the area where the negative terminal is earthed. It's so bad that I reckon If I try and loosen the also badly rusted connection, the whole connector will break free of the surrounding metal!
Replacing the battery earth wire and fixing elsewhere is not a big deal, but I don't think I can do the same for whatever is in the elephant trunking. :S
Also how important structurally is the corroded area? Almost completely out of the picture (on the bottom right of pic) is what looks to be a bracket supporting the engine block! :? The ledge is at the far left of the engine compartment, so the edge of the ledge (top left to bottom r in pic) runs from the front to the back.
How on earth did it get so corroded?? Nothing else anywhere else (and I've had a pretty good poke around everywhere now) is in anything like as poor condition. :S

IMG_20220224_163326[1].jpg
 
MarionK said:
Good to know, thanks. What about the other 'wires'?
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In my case I took off positive battery terminal end and clamped it securely to a new battery terminal fitting with multiple attachment points (even Halfords sell them). Used the biggest terminal for a new earth lead from there to the lifting eye of the engine where I fashioned a small Clamp/bracket. I then went under engine on my back and loosened one gearbox bolt and ran new earth from there to nearside wing/crossmember.

By the way, the quickest way to see if improving earth helps your running you can just put a jump lead from neg battery to engine block.

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Jev88 said:
In my case I took off positive battery terminal end and clamped it securely to a new battery terminal fitting with multiple attachment points (even Halfords sell them). Used the biggest terminal for a new earth lead from there to the lifting eye of the engine where I fashioned a small Clamp/bracket. I then went under engine on my back and loosened one gearbox bolt and ran new earth from there to nearside wing/crossmember.

By the way, the quickest way to see if improving earth helps your running you can just put a jump lead from neg battery to engine block.
Click to expand...

So thats three lengths of earth wire altogether?

I have used the lifting eye for the earth of the booster power pack, and I think I can make a clamp with a couple of bolts and suitable metal strips. Or maybe I can rejig a leccy fence joining clamp for the job.
 
I've located the gear box, but I think I'll wait for warmer weather before I start lying on concrete. I'll use the jump lead while I get the fuel supply sorted.

More importantly, I have to go to the main dealer to (hopefully) source a replacement sensor cap. The new filter I just bought has it's own cap though, so I'm wondering: Does the sensor have to be installed at all?
 
MarionK The sensor is only to let you know that some water has collected in the bottom of the filter housing (it illuminates a logo on the dash but will not effect starting/running ) and that it needs draining by unscrewing the sensor/drain plug at the bottom a small amount and then tightening it back up when fuel comes out instead of water when primed. These sensors are not always fitted to vans and they are then just drained once in a while.
Regarding the second earth which is needed between the body/chassis and the engine/gearbox, although this second earth is often to the gearbox from the body/chassis it can also be anywhere that you can get a good connection between the engine/gearbox and the body/chassis and not just underneath the van.
 
GeoffnDee said:
MarionK The sensor is only to let you know that some water has collected in the bottom of the filter housing (it illuminates a logo on the dash but will not effect starting/running ) and that it needs draining by unscrewing the sensor/drain plug at the bottom a small amount and then tightening it back up when fuel comes out instead of water when primed. These sensors are not always fitted to vans and they are then just drained once in a while.
Regarding the second earth which is needed between the body/chassis and the engine/gearbox, although this second earth is often to the gearbox from the body/chassis it can also be anywhere that you can get a good connection between the engine/gearbox and the body/chassis and not just underneath the van.
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indeed, I installed one from a bracket on the engine block to the battery on a previous van. It was pouring with rain, blowing hard and freezing cold. I thought at the time, just a temporary fix, but it was still fine years on when I sold the van
 
MarionK said:
I've located the gear box, but I think I'll wait for warmer weather before I start lying on concrete. I'll use the jump lead while I get the fuel supply sorted.

More importantly, I have to go to the main dealer to (hopefully) source a replacement sensor cap. The new filter I just bought has it's own cap though, so I'm wondering: Does the sensor have to be installed at all?
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My 1999 2.5tdi had no sensor connector to base of filter. I think it attached to the top on mine. The base was a yellow/clear plastic cap with a stubby pipe pointing down. Half twist and water drains out.

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TheBig1 said:
One thing not mentioned yet, is diesel bug. The van has been laid up in cold damp weather, so the fuel could be bad and jellied
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Exactly what I have been doing today John
Posted earlier up on oops ignore thread
Broken Link Removed

2.8 ducato a few hiccups powering on under load on way back from pick up .OK on lower revs .
Filter in on pick up pipe in tank and a little bug was the possible cause also main filter (identical to the pics earlier )1999 ducato.

No priming pump it is self prime same as MarionK

When fitting a new filter I always fill new filter before fitting easy on this one just take top of air filter off for access.(did mechanic friend do that?)
Also whoever fitted filter on this one only put it back hand tight (its not the breakable later one)

If all else fails when cranking give it a whiff of easy start usually works .

Don't know what part of Essex your at MarionK
But if needed I have a nephew up that way a good mobile mechanic travels all over
 
You had an old bmc did you :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
On the older engines if used constantly, possibly.
But usually underlying problems in the first place .

A quick sniff saves lots of cranking easing the load on starter motor etc and do it as its being cranked and not lots in before turning key
 
Not likely to be dielsel bug as was running when I got it and had new diesel (not full tho) put in sometime in Nov. I've also put a couple of (fresh) cans in since the trouble started as the guy said the tank was empty even tho the guage said half full. (Again, I'm not convinced as the guage now reads 3/4.) I had wondered about normal gelifying, as it was cold when I first failed to start it, but it wasn't -12, so not likely imho.
edit: Just done a bit more reading, and although it's possible, it's unlikely to be the cause of the problem, because it hadn't really driven enough to clog the filter since putting the new one in.
If, when I change it for the one I've just bought, I find it's filthy already, I will treat for it.
 
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sonar said:
I think a P. reg is a 1976 . And as far i know that. P. Reg has alway been the first letter .

and they have plenty of post under their belt.

I was always told a Diesel engine needs three things to run

compression. Fuel. And a preheat.

sounds like one of the three is not working.

so if you compression and fuel then it’s a glow plug.

all three items have to be tested. Still not working then if it has an ecu fitted . Is so it could be that.

not much else that can stop a diesal working.

in the boatyard they used to get diesel engines running without even being in the boats.
tested before they were fitted.


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P is a 96!

Funny how these things stick I always knew 97 was R and W was 2000....

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jollyrodger I'd like to be absolutely sure of the problem before I use easy start tbh.

I'm bang in the middle, just N of Chelmsford. I've contemplated Getting the AA on it, but tbh I need to learn how as much as possible about the mh as am (long term) planning a solo trek accross europe and beyond.
If your nephew is good with people asking lots of silly questions, then I'd be more than happy to let him have a crack at it. :)
 
MarionK said:
jollyrodger I'd like to be absolutely sure of the problem before I use easy start tbh.

I'm bang in the middle, just N of Chelmsford. I've contemplated Getting the AA on it, but tbh I need to learn how as much as possible about the mh as am (long term) planning a solo trek accross europe and beyond.
If your nephew is good with people asking lots of silly questions, then I'd be more than happy to let him have a crack at it. :)
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Believe me easy start won't have any detrimental effect on your engine if use correctly as I posted earlier.
I've had and worked on my own vehicles similar to yours since late 80s from pvc to A class 1.9 to 2.8 all with the same set up as yours.
My latest stored for a good while by last 2 owners one of which did a long tour of the EU.
I believe they blogged on here Aussie something can't remember forum name.

Anyway when I picked it up it had a full tank, drove OK, But when climbing the revevs under load (lots of roundabouts on route back) so gettin a shake up I had to constantly nurse the throttle for 250 odd miles from Bury St E stopping and investigating wouldn't have achieved much.

Yesterday I tackled the problem fro the tank forwards
20220227_132912.jpg
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The filter on the end of pick up to fuel line half clogged with bug which you can see in bottome of tank ,black slime .I cleaned the filter and sucked out the slime into sample bottle .
Fitted new filter (same as yours ) sample from that filter mucky ,but did find it only hand tight !(mechanics??)
Up the road and problem solved .

OK yours won't start and you say cranking enough but you mechanic says new battery? Stranged imo but constant cranking will not help your starter motor.

I think you said problems since filter was changed ?
Look in that area its a simple easily accessible screw on canister .
Did he prime the filter before install ?
There is no mechanical hand primer some did have a big round push primer on top of filter yours hasn't by the look of it so self prime .

A little squirt whilst cranking (get someone to turn key or squirt)
Will pm you nephews number .
Hope you get it sorted
 
If used with any degree of frequency, an engine will then need it every time to start. That was certainly the case with yacht engines.
 
I should get the popcorn out for the 'quick start good or bad?' debacle ;P I do believe that too much inappropriate use could exacerbate underlying faults. But I'm not arguing for or against.
In my case it's as much about knowing for sure what caused the problem in the first place, and why it's not resolved itself, as anything. Maybe it's nothing to do with air in the system at all, maybe it's a pump or the ecu, or dodgy glowplugs (previous owner did recommend turning them on twice before cranking . . .). Perhaps it is just the earth connection, (not yet tried, I want to check the filter personally first) or maybe it really is the battery . . .

To be more precise about what the guy said about the battery, he said 'it doesn't have enough "output" to give enough compression to get it started properly'. And yes he did prime the filter, and he didn't mention any gunk the second time round.

Problem did not start immediately after the filter change, it drove a few miles to my place and was parked up for over a month before I tried and failed to get it started. At the time I put it down to cold weather and my lack of experience. Maye I flooded the engine? . . .

A lot of the diagnostic stuff needs two people . . . hopefully son can come round for longer next weekend. Or maybe I shoud just call your nephew. TY for the number :)

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