Overloaded

[sfrain145]

Hi all I have a question as it seems very vague and the people I have spoken to don’t seem too helpful
I went on another forum and they were talking about fiat, Peugeot and Citroen vans failing MOT due to them having rear suspension issues with flat rear springs or bump stops bottoming out etc.

So I went on the autotrail website and they have a weight calculator and it seems once you spec your van and add you passengers and belongings you have no weight left for your dog or even to fit a towbar etc.

The response I got was get the rear springs upgraded to you can increase the GVW my question is surely you shouldn’t need to.

They are in a way forcing us to break the law and sometimes without knowing

Below is a copy of the config I am on about.

Worth discussing but I have ordered an expedition 68 with a pop top
I also asked about fitting a lithium battery and again not a straight answer so looks like all their gear will be removed to make way for. Some less heavy functional stuff

Maybe that’s why they don’t fit a radio so they can save weight

 

[poppycamper]

A common issue these days trying to keep below 3.5kg..
A lot of mohos are not fit for purpose unless you uprate GVW and only if you have the appropriate license.

 

[Badknee]

I went on another forum and they were talking about fiat, Peugeot and Citroen vans failing MOT due to them having rear suspension issues with flat rear springs or bump stops bottoming out etc.

Air bags will sort that out but straight springs might show you being overloaded and the only way to find out will be to check on a weighbridge.

 

[sfrain145]

Air bags will sort that out but straight springs might show you being overloaded and the only way to find out will be to check on a weighbridge.

Yes agreed so looks like saving up to get double leaf springs some sumo helpers or some air bags then ask SV tech to replate it to 4.2 tons luckily I have a licence to do the job being an ex military person

 

[Orion]

I’ll copy and paste my post to a similar thread this morning:

I took the no cost factory option of going to 3650kg on our Adria Compact when ordering but found that when fully loaded we were just the wrong side of exactly spot on.

Not too worried though given the tolerances allowed and the fact that I’ve already installed Dunlop rear air suspension. Anyhow, I’ve now been in contact with Dee at VWE, and after providing all the relevant information and photos requested, can look forward to up plating to 4250kg with the all important rear axle at 2400kg.

There are only the two of us, although I stress that we were fully equipped for 8 weeks away and carrying a fair amount of kit, but how do some of the manufacturers get away with marketing 3500kg vans as suitable for families of 4 (or more)?

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[DavidG58]

It’s alright for us oldies, but many younger members may not have the C1 entitlement on their licence , could become a very expensive upgrade if they don’t know or still have to take a test to be able to use it legally

 

[L' Hobo]

First of all, on a Fiat etc. the things that you are calling bump stops are classed as 'spring assisters' and are not or should not be, a MOT failure if they are touching. You may be overloaded, but replacing your battery with Lithium of the same rating will help as the weight and area needed is less. Hope this helps!

 

[Badknee]

Yes agreed so looks like saving up to get double leaf springs some sumo helpers or some air bags then ask SV tech to replate it to 4.2 tons luckily I have a licence to do the job being an ex military person

Airbags will be cheaper and easier to fit than replacement leaf springs I would think.

 

[sfrain145]

Bump stops or spring assisters still should have some movement in these leaf springs as they are nearly flat and even unladen from factory. I took a picture and the one I took doesn’t have the 125kg extra for the pop top and it was on its backside.

Either way we should be given something that is fit for purpose for example four people if it’s got four beds and seats and if it’s got a garage enough to facilitate that then a couple of dogs.

Yes get rid of those silly brick lead batteries and replace with Lithium if the van supports it

Rant rant for so much money.

 

[sfrain145]

Bump stops or spring assisters still should have some movement in these leaf springs as they are nearly flat and even unladen from factory. I took a picture and the one I took doesn’t have the 125kg extra for the pop top and it was on its backside.

Either way we should be given something that is fit for purpose for example four people if it’s got four beds and seats and if it’s got a garage enough to facilitate that then a couple of dogs.

Yes get rid of those silly brick lead batteries and replace with Lithium if the van supports it

Rant rant for so much money.

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[sfrain145]

Airbags will be cheaper and easier to fit than replacement leaf springs I would think.

I will do the lot for belt and braces and update the front

 

[Soycd]

What is the weight tolerance? is it expressed as a %?

 

[Soycd]

What is the weight tolerance? is it expressed as a %?

Ok just found it, seems to be 5% before a fine kicks in.

 

[Lenny HB]

What is the actual weight given of the van you have ordered with all the factory fitted extras?

Then add 100 to 130kg as the van is guaranteed to be overweight.

Now deduct that from 3500kg if the answer is 500 kg or above it will just be possible to run at 3500kg if you are careful.

 

[nicholsong]

What is the weight tolerance? is it expressed as a %?

Some countries it is nil.

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[sfrain145]

What is the actual weight given of the van you have ordered with all the factory fitted extras?

Then add 100 to 130kg as the van is guaranteed to be overweight.

Now deduct that from 3500kg if the answer is 500 kg or above it will just be possible to run at 3500kg if you are careful.

if you have a look at that image up top it shows what the weight is with all the passengers the gear and the factory extras and it looks like with all that it’s on its limit

 

[L' Hobo]

if you have a look at that image up top it shows what the weight is with all the passengers the gear and the factory extras and it looks like with all that it’s on its limit

What you seem to be forgetting is that the vehicle photograph IS of a vehicle FULLY laden. If you load a 'white van' courier van to it's limits, it would look very similar.
If you want more payload and you have the licence, you should have bought a heavier chassis vehicle.
Yes it would have cost more but you made your choice, WHY if you wanted more carrying capacity?
By the way, in the past, there has been many threads on this subject, perhaps it's worth you researching them? (Top right hand corner)

 

[stevewagner]

Ok just found it, seems to be 5% before a fine kicks in.

I wouldn’t rely on the 5% theory as the equipment VOSA weigh you on could be 5% out!

 

[Lenny HB]

I wouldn’t rely on the 5% theory as the equipment VOSA weigh you on could be 5% out!

Tollerance on a plate weigh bridge is +/- 110kg, on a Dynamic weighbridge +/- 150 kg on each axle.

Do what I do, make sure you are 300kg under and you will be fine.

 

[sfrain145]

What you seem to be forgetting is that the vehicle photograph IS of a vehicle FULLY laden. If you load a 'white van' courier van to it's limits, it would look very similar.
If you want more payload and you have the licence, you should have bought a heavier chassis vehicle.
Yes it would have cost more but you made your choice, WHY if you wanted more carrying capacity?
By the way, in the past, there has been many threads on this subject, perhaps it's worth you researching them? (Top right hand corner)

I am pointing out and I think most people get it how can they build a vehicle with all that extra stuff including a 125kg pop top and like you say not use a more capable chassis. Leaving the unsuspecting owner at risk or like me going to upgrade anyway as I am not comfy riding on the bump stops or suspension assisters. I will be fitting a towbar and fitting a Thule box to it so I imagine that won’t help anyway you are right they should spec it with a decent chassis “maxi” is a good start but I am sure it’s still 3500kg for the non c1 drivers

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[L' Hobo]

Tollerance on a plate weigh bridge is +/- 110kg, on a Dynamic weighbridge +/- 150 kg on each axle.

Do what I do, make sure you are 300kg under and you will be fine.

That seems like an awful lot of tolerance on a commercial weighbridge when one is paying for every kilo when going to the tip?

(That's the weight of a 2 Lenny HB's on each axle, if what you told us on the walking on roof thread the other day is still correct)

 

[L' Hobo]

I am pointing out and I think most people get it how can they build a vehicle with all that extra stuff including a 125kg pop top and like you say not use a more capable chassis. Leaving the unsuspecting owner at risk or like me going to upgrade anyway as I am not comfy riding on the bump stops or suspension assisters. I will be fitting a towbar and fitting a Thule box to it so I imagine that won’t help anyway you are right they should spec it with a decent chassis “maxi” is a good start but I am sure it’s still 3500kg for the non c1 drivers

The MMM magazine has a 3page article called 'Motorhome up-plating - all you need to know' this month, might be worth getting?

PS. I agree with you, some converters give abysmally small payload and must be near the limit when it includes a full tank of water & fuel.

 

[jongood]

I am pointing out and I think most people get it how can they build a vehicle with all that extra stuff including a 125kg pop top and like you say not use a more capable chassis. Leaving the unsuspecting owner at risk or like me going to upgrade anyway as I am not comfy riding on the bump stops or suspension assisters. I will be fitting a towbar and fitting a Thule box to it so I imagine that won’t help anyway you are right they should spec it with a decent chassis “maxi” is a good start but I am sure it’s still 3500kg for the non c1 drivers

Is this your first Mh? If so can I recommend you don't buy new because you re very unlikely to get it right first time and its an expensive game changing. Better to buy what you think you want but used and see if it actually works for you.

 

[Lenny HB]

That seems like an awful lot of tolerance on a commercial weighbridge when one is paying for every kilo when going to the tip?

Designed to weigh 44 tonners and calibrated at 18 ton.
In practice moden strain guages are quite accurate and accuracy is normally better than 50kg.

It surprised me when I first found out what the tolerances were.

 

[ashley 1340]

I have a '91 KonTiki that was sold as good for 6 people. It is plated at GVW of 3100kgs, even though it is a full size coach built motor home, it does not make sense that it could have been registered so badly by Swift. What are my options???

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[Steve I]

I’ll copy and paste my post to a similar thread this morning:

I took the no cost factory option of going to 3650kg on our Adria Compact when ordering but found that when fully loaded we were just the wrong side of exactly spot on.

Not too worried though given the tolerances allowed and the fact that I’ve already installed Dunlop rear air suspension. Anyhow, I’ve now been in contact with Dee at VWE, and after providing all the relevant information and photos requested, can look forward to up plating to 4250kg with the all important rear axle at 2400kg.

There are only the two of us, although I stress that we were fully equipped for 8 weeks away and carrying a fair amount of kit, but how do some of the manufacturers get away with marketing 3500kg vans as suitable for families of 4 (or more)?

Hi, just a quick question please, who fitted your Dunlop rear air? We have it on ours but with a leak and the fitting company have badly let us down so looking for someone to repair it. Shame as it works brilliantly on our Chausson with much better ride/roll and rerated to 4400kg

 

[Lenny HB]

I have a '91 KonTiki that was sold as good for 6 people. It is plated at GVW of 3100kgs, even though it is a full size coach built motor home, it does not make sense that it could have been registered so badly by Swift. What are my options???

Vans of that age were a lot lighter but I still doubt you could run legally with two people.
You should be able to uprate to 3500 or 3850, might need wheel, tyre changes & suspension mods.

 

[Captain Birdseye]

A common issue these days trying to keep below 3.5kg..
A lot of mohos are not fit for purpose unless you uprate GVW and only if you have the appropriate license.

I agree. Luckily we have upgraded to 4,800kg so do not have weight issues. Yes we both do have the licence, and I have renewed mine since since passing 70 years young.

 

[Lenny HB]

if you have a look at that image up top it shows what the weight is with all the passengers the gear and the factory extras and it looks like with all that it’s on its limit

What is the MIRO & the weight of extras?

 

[Victor And Margaret]

If you think it's bad for motorhomes, its 10 times worse for tuggers. We had our last caravan weighed when it was brand new and empty with just a motor mover fitted and battery / gas bottles in. Nothing else at all and it was 15kg over the MTPLM. We had our Autocruise Starspirit weighed last week as I've added a bike rack, 280Ah lithium, 175W solar, B2B and inverter. It was loaded for a weekend away with all essentials - wine / 15 pack Heineken etc and came in at 3180. It's plated at 3400 so we're well chuffed with that.