Newbie Security Advice

[BobRivers]

Hi all we will hopefully soon be the new owners of a 626D Evidence and I have been trying to learn as much as I can about security. The dealer has been a little disappointing as they appear to have no available time to answer newbie questions, I'm also a little apprehensive of the customer service once they have the payment. I would appreciate if someone would be able to answer a few questions that I don't think I fully understand.
Does the above come with a standard Thatcham approved immobiliser or is it classed as just factory standard?
What does all the different Thatcham categories mean?
I would like to fit a tracker for security but also insurance purposes. There is lots of information that I have reviewed but feel more confused than ever. I would like to keep the costs reasonable and like to know what all the experienced MH members would advise?
Would disk lock be a good visible deterrent along with locking the drivers seat in the opposite position?
The MH will be kept in our driveway for the foreseeable. I've got so many more questions I would like answered but this will do for now

 

[HugoBNB]

Welcome
There are plenty of threads on these topics in this forum. Have a search. We have a combination of visible external door locks and a Vanbitz Growler alarm. If you are keeping it on your drive it may be worth sinking a parking post into the ground. Also, just to really make it difficult, a wheel, or steering wheel, clamp. These latter you could take with you on your travels for when you park up somewhere to go sight seeing. I am sure many others will be along to assist you.
Good luck and safe travels.

 

[pappajohn]

Usually the immobiliser is a factory fit item but many, if not all, are thatcham approved.

I believe the various thatcham categories are based on the time it resists attack.

I don't know the various categories but if a particular class takes 3 minutes to overcome and another take 5 minutes the 5 minute item is more secure.

Trackers....take your pic.
A good one may be monitored by the selling company and police will usually liase with the tracking center.
A cheap self fit tracker will most likely be SIM card based via text message.
You will be able to track it by an app but the police obviously can't..
If you can track it to a location the police may take an interest.

 

[Podney]

The dealer should give you details of the alarm fitted. If he can’t,or doesn’t want to,he’s an idiot and you are dealing with the wrong dealer.

Refer to Thatcham website for details of their various products.
I don’t know anything about the van you are buying,but I’m guessing it’s high end,i.e.valuable .If so:

The vanbitz growler alarm comes highly recommended by folks on here.
Yes,I would have a tracker fitted
Yes,I would also fit visible deterrents to steering wheel and pedals.Also a locking mechanism on swivel seat.
Yes,fit extra lock on hab door
Yes,fit window locks.

 

[Simon Select]

As a dealer I can officially say just ring Vanbitz. We sell alarms but none are as good as that system

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[moho2beer]

Whilst I’m far from the best person to answer this, I’ll give it a go having been in a similar position.

In Scotland, there are very few installers around who will fit a dedicated motorhome alarm and immobiliser (Thatcham approved). Being in lock down, you may want to consider insuring your Moho without a tracker installed and an alarm initially, relying instead on mechanical Clutch Claws, steering wheel locks, cars parked behind, big hairy dogs and the likes until we’re out of lockdown, then visit Eddie at Vanbitz, Outsmart The Thief or even fit a Pandora Camper Alarm, tracker and immobiliser. All of which are made for the purpose.

In short, if you fit something cheap purely for insurance purposes, you may end up with a product that gives very little protection. This includes most trackers. Better to get one of the three above and feel safe in the knowledge that you’ve made a worthwhile purchase.

All mechanical locks such as steering wheel locks can only be worthwhile, if only for deterrent purposes.

Also Advanced Insurance can source you an insurance quote with one of the bigger underwriters (Axa in my case), who don’t demand a Thatcham alarm or immobiliser. This will buy you time to fit the right thing.

Would be keen to hear what you decide.

 

[BobRivers]

Guys thanks for all the information I really appreciate your help. moho2beer I'll let you know how I get on and what I end up going for.

 

[eddie]

Absolutely anything you need to know about the Strikeback or Growler systems we can answer. As for your questions lets see what we can do:-

Hi all we will hopefully soon be the new owners of a 626D Evidence and I have been trying to learn as much as I can about security. The dealer has been a little disappointing as they appear to have no available time to answer newbie questions, I'm also a little apprehensive of the customer service once they have the payment. I would appreciate if someone would be able to answer a few questions that I don't think I fully understand.

Sadly this is one of the problems. The dealers are not security experts, and quite often they (the dealership) doesn't even install the alarms themselves, instead using a third party "mobile" fitter. This sounds fine in theory but in practice isn't the best for you, the end user AKA the customer. Just say that ABC Motorhomes use "Alan's Alarms" and Alan's Alarms offer range of products for a range of vehicles (cars, vans, caravans, motorhomes, lorries etc) So the dealer doesn't really know anything about what is being installed. The dealer add's "mark up" on the alarm system inflating the cost to you. You go to collect the van and ask how the alarm works, and are told that no one knows as "we get a bloke in" Not great but what can you do? A couple of years down the road you need a replacement radio key. You call in to see ABC Motorhomes and ask about the alarm and are met with blank faces? "We don't fit alarms" You point out that the alarm was fitted when you collected the motorhome and after some head scratching someone remembers that they "got a bloke in"

Then it transpires that Alan's Alarms were promised a "lot of work" from the dealership in an attempt to get the alarms installed as cheaply as possible, which not only didn't materialise, but ABC took ages to pay Alan's Alarms, who got fed up with the arrangement and told the dealership to stuff it!

Now whilst that may be an explanation of what happened it doesn't help you moving forwards when you need spares or perhaps a copy of your Insurance Certificate for a new insurance Company.

So back up is vital. At Van Bitz we have detailed records going back to 1990 when we first started to specialise protecting motorhomes. Two years incidentally after Lyn (my wife) and I who founded Van Bitz started motorhoming.

Does the above come with a standard Thatcham approved immobiliser or is it classed as just factory standard?
What does all the different Thatcham categories mean?

Since 1997 every motor vehicle built in the Eurozone has had a factory fitted immobiliser by European Law. The immobiliser in your motorhome will be recognised as a Thatcham Category 11 immobiliser.

Category One deals with alarms with immobilisation
Category Two deals with immobilisation
Category Three deals with physical security, such as wheel clamps

Category Five deals with monitored tracking systems

I would like to fit a tracker for security but also insurance purposes. There is lots of information that I have reviewed but feel more confused than ever. I would like to keep the costs reasonable and like to know what all the experienced MH members would advise?

Don't waste your money on a Thatcham approved tracking system unless your insurers insist on it. Tracking Systems or alarms with built in tracking systems are simply too vulnerable nowadays so unless you have too don't waste your money. Ours included along with every other manufacturer.

Would disk lock be a good visible deterrent along with locking the drivers seat in the opposite position?
The MH will be kept in our driveway for the foreseeable. I've got so many more questions I would like answered but this will do for now

In my opinion no, I have seen too many quickly removed, however, as you say it is a visual deterrent to some.

Bear in mind that your motorhome is most vulnerable to theft from your drive/garden/storage rather than when your ambling around Cornwall on your holidays.

Also bear in mind that in relation to theft "From" vehicles the theft "Of" vehicles is slight, further bear in mind that many vehicles are stolen for secondary crime purposes, joy riding, ram raiding, getaway vehicle to name a few, none of which would be applicable to motorhomes

 

[funflair]

Absolutely anything you need to know about the Strikeback or Growler systems we can answer. As for your questions lets see what we can do:-



Sadly this is one of the problems. The dealers are not security experts, and quite often they (the dealership) doesn't even install the alarms themselves, instead using a third party "mobile" fitter. This sounds fine in theory but in practice isn't the best for you, the end user AKA the customer. Just say that ABC Motorhomes use "Alan's Alarms" and Alan's Alarms offer range of products for a range of vehicles (cars, vans, caravans, motorhomes, lorries etc) So the dealer doesn't really know anything about what is being installed. The dealer add's "mark up" on the alarm system inflating the cost to you. You go to collect the van and ask how the alarm works, and are told that no one knows as "we get a bloke in" Not great but what can you do? A couple of years down the road you need a replacement radio key. You call in to see ABC Motorhomes and ask about the alarm and are met with blank faces? "We don't fit alarms" You point out that the alarm was fitted when you collected the motorhome and after some head scratching someone remembers that they "got a bloke in"

Then it transpires that Alan's Alarms were promised a "lot of work" from the dealership in an attempt to get the alarms installed as cheaply as possible, which not only didn't materialise, but ABC took ages to pay Alan's Alarms, who got fed up with the arrangement and told the dealership to stuff it!

Now whilst that may be an explanation of what happened it doesn't help you moving forwards when you need spares or perhaps a copy of your Insurance Certificate for a new insurance Company.

So back up is vital. At Van Bitz we have detailed records going back to 1990 when we first started to specialise protecting motorhomes. Two years incidentally after Lyn (my wife) and I who founded Van Bitz started motorhoming.


Since 1997 every motor vehicle built in the Eurozone has had a factory fitted immobiliser by European Law. The immobiliser in your motorhome will be recognised as a Thatcham Category 11 immobiliser.

Category One deals with alarms with immobilisation
Category Two deals with immobilisation
Category Three deals with physical security, such as wheel clamps

Category Five deals with monitored tracking systems


Don't waste your money on a Thatcham approved tracking system unless your insurers insist on it. Tracking Systems or alarms with built in tracking systems are simply too vulnerable nowadays so unless you have too don't waste your money. Ours included along with every other manufacturer.

In my opinion no, I have seen too many quickly removed, however, as you say it is a visual deterrent to some.

Bear in mind that your motorhome is most vulnerable to theft from your drive/garden/storage rather than when your ambling around Cornwall on your holidays.

Also bear in mind that in relation to theft "From" vehicles the theft "Of" vehicles is slight, further bear in mind that many vehicles are stolen for secondary crime purposes, joy riding, ram raiding, getaway vehicle to name a few, none of which would be applicable to motorhomes

I know that you don't rate trackers Eddie but then I read,

99% of stolen vehicles fitted with a Phantom tracking system are recovered in less than 70 minutes. 85% of these recoveries catch the thief en-route to their destination, meaning that in most cases, any personal effects are also recovered, and no damage is done to the caravan or motorhome.

I don't understand how they can make that claim if they are as ineffectual as you say.

 

[eddie]

I know that you don't rate trackers Eddie but then I read,

99% of stolen vehicles fitted with a Phantom tracking system are recovered in less than 70 minutes. 85% of these recoveries catch the thief en-route to their destination, meaning that in most cases, any personal effects are also recovered, and no damage is done to the caravan or motorhome.

I don't understand how they can make that claim if they are as ineffectual as you say.

Well of course it depends how many "motorhomes" were stolen and recovered?

The word "vehicle" is always ambiguous. I believe that they are quite big in the food van market for example

I know that we have equipment that will shut down/jam/hide anything with a SIM card in it and anyone can buy such devices for under £60 on line.

I was complaining to MIRRRC (Thatcham) about the insurance industries blind reliance on tracking systems prior to Covid so its on hold but I will be resurrecting the argument once we are all back to normal

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[BobRivers]

Absolutely anything you need to know about the Strikeback or Growler systems we can answer. As for your questions lets see what we can do:-



Sadly this is one of the problems. The dealers are not security experts, and quite often they (the dealership) doesn't even install the alarms themselves, instead using a third party "mobile" fitter. This sounds fine in theory but in practice isn't the best for you, the end user AKA the customer. Just say that ABC Motorhomes use "Alan's Alarms" and Alan's Alarms offer range of products for a range of vehicles (cars, vans, caravans, motorhomes, lorries etc) So the dealer doesn't really know anything about what is being installed. The dealer add's "mark up" on the alarm system inflating the cost to you. You go to collect the van and ask how the alarm works, and are told that no one knows as "we get a bloke in" Not great but what can you do? A couple of years down the road you need a replacement radio key. You call in to see ABC Motorhomes and ask about the alarm and are met with blank faces? "We don't fit alarms" You point out that the alarm was fitted when you collected the motorhome and after some head scratching someone remembers that they "got a bloke in"

Then it transpires that Alan's Alarms were promised a "lot of work" from the dealership in an attempt to get the alarms installed as cheaply as possible, which not only didn't materialise, but ABC took ages to pay Alan's Alarms, who got fed up with the arrangement and told the dealership to stuff it!

Now whilst that may be an explanation of what happened it doesn't help you moving forwards when you need spares or perhaps a copy of your Insurance Certificate for a new insurance Company.

So back up is vital. At Van Bitz we have detailed records going back to 1990 when we first started to specialise protecting motorhomes. Two years incidentally after Lyn (my wife) and I who founded Van Bitz started motorhoming.


Since 1997 every motor vehicle built in the Eurozone has had a factory fitted immobiliser by European Law. The immobiliser in your motorhome will be recognised as a Thatcham Category 11 immobiliser.

Category One deals with alarms with immobilisation
Category Two deals with immobilisation
Category Three deals with physical security, such as wheel clamps

Category Five deals with monitored tracking systems


Don't waste your money on a Thatcham approved tracking system unless your insurers insist on it. Tracking Systems or alarms with built in tracking systems are simply too vulnerable nowadays so unless you have too don't waste your money. Ours included along with every other manufacturer.

In my opinion no, I have seen too many quickly removed, however, as you say it is a visual deterrent to some.

Bear in mind that your motorhome is most vulnerable to theft from your drive/garden/storage rather than when your ambling around Cornwall on your holidays.

Also bear in mind that in relation to theft "From" vehicles the theft "Of" vehicles is slight, further bear in mind that many vehicles are stolen for secondary crime purposes, joy riding, ram raiding, getaway vehicle to name a few, none of which would be applicable to motorhomes

Hi Eddie

Thanks for taking the time to put such a comprehensive list of information together for me.

 

[VXman]

Does anyone have any stats on motorhome theft or break ins? Is it a real issue?

 

[CamperJack]

One of the best and most simple security things I've ever seen was a guy on YouTube who had drilled a hole in the turntable of the swivel seat and locked it with a heavy duty padlock in the position facing away from the steering wheel.

I have a chain around my steering wheel and the drivers door handle so the door cannot be opened or the wheel turned. I have another chain on the passenger door too, securing it to the frame of the passenger seat. And a regular steering lock too. The back doors are, I think, more secure than the front in a panel van like mine.

But with battery operated grinders, if they want it badly enough, they'll have it.

You just have to look more secure than the van next to you. Don't look like an easy target.

 

[Podney]

Does anyone have any stats on motorhome theft or break ins? Is it a real issue?

I’ve often wondered that,but never had the motivation to find out. Call it lazy.

But what would one do with the information? Not sure.

I think what we do know is that certain base vehicles i.e. Ford Transits are more likely to be stolen as there is a big market for them in a certain minority ethnic groups who hold the key to the pies.

We also know that motorway service areas are higher risk,here and on le continent.

Personally,I feel happier leaving the van in rural areas than in towns......more people = more scroats.

As CamperJack says,you just have to make your van look more difficult to break into,or steal,than the one next door. Same as your house.

 

[VXman]

I’ve often wondered that,but never had the motivation to find out. Call it lazy.

But what would one do with the information? Not sure.

Well, it does raise the question of if all theses devices are necessary or people are just wasting their money?

Example - neighbour across the road puts big steering wheel locks on his bog standard cars parked on his drive.

Me, being a bit of a petrol head has always had more desireable (sporty) cars but have never added any security beyond what they come with. In 25 years we've not had any theft issues.

Lots of houses near me have alarm systems. We don't. Again, I am not aware of any house break ins in 25 years. I'm happy to go for a short bike ride and leave the garage door open while I'm out.

There was a assault on an individual in our area a few weeks ago. A one off in a safe nice area. Now on the local area facebook everyone is panicking. 'The areas gone down hill' ' scared to go out on my own' etc etc.


So just really just wanted to know how real the threat is, based on facts and not perceived risk.

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[VXman]

Just to add - I was pleasantly surprised how 'cheap' motorhome insurance was when I got a quote the other day, which would suggest it's not a massive issue.

Interesting article here on how many MH's are unprotected.

Owners of motorhomes and campervans are failing to secure vehicles

Demand for these vehicles boomed in 2020, with restrictions on overseas travel resulting in a surge in sales as people looked to invest in different ways to enjoy time away from home.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[Wombles]

Check out Link Removed for discount codes for several of the security options mentioned above

 

[Quantox]

An interesting thread for me. Thanks for posting this originally. I've also studied all I can on the subject and have come to the conclusion that a Strikeback would be my alarm of choice for my new AT V-Line 610 SE which is currently sitting at the dealers awaiting a chance to collect it. As the dealer is very close (7 miles) to Vanbitz I've emailed Eddie (only yesterday) enquiring about having a Strikeback installed after lockdown release but before collection (a four week gap) as I'm up in the Lakes, a long way away from Vanbitz. Noting the popularity of the Strikeback alarms I'd not be surprised if Vanbitz are fully booked some months ahead and unable to fit me in but I live in hope.

Does anyone know if the Strikeback alarm covers the barn doors on a PVC installation?

Cheers

Colin

 

[Stealaway]

Just to add - I was pleasantly surprised how 'cheap' motorhome insurance was when I got a quote the other day, which would suggest it's not a massive issue.

Interesting article here on how many MH's are unprotected.

Owners of motorhomes and campervans are failing to secure vehicles

Demand for these vehicles boomed in 2020, with restrictions on overseas travel resulting in a surge in sales as people looked to invest in different ways to enjoy time away from home.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

For me there are two area's of concern-

First is a break-in and theft from the van you will never stop because there are so many windows, best you can do is have a siren that might scare them away --- eventually.
Best advise is don't leave any thing of value in there, or if you must- hide it very well.

Second is the entire theft of the van - again all you can do is slow them down, as nothing seems to stop 'em.

If all else fails simply claim on the insurance, it will be a nuisance but - its only a van.

Non of this is that prevalent hence the cheap price of insurance.

 

[stevewagner]

Just to add - I was pleasantly surprised how 'cheap' motorhome insurance was when I got a quote the other day, which would suggest it's not a massive issue.

Interesting article here on how many MH's are unprotected.

Owners of motorhomes and campervans are failing to secure vehicles

Demand for these vehicles boomed in 2020, with restrictions on overseas travel resulting in a surge in sales as people looked to invest in different ways to enjoy time away from home.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

Motorhome insurance is based on mileage and the fact that most motorhomes are driven at relatively low speeds.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[BobRivers]

Whilst I’m far from the best person to answer this, I’ll give it a go having been in a similar position.

In Scotland, there are very few installers around who will fit a dedicated motorhome alarm and immobiliser (Thatcham approved). Being in lock down, you may want to consider insuring your Moho without a tracker installed and an alarm initially, relying instead on mechanical Clutch Claws, steering wheel locks, cars parked behind, big hairy dogs and the likes until we’re out of lockdown, then visit Eddie at Vanbitz, Outsmart The Thief or even fit a Pandora Camper Alarm, tracker and immobiliser. All of which are made for the purpose.

In short, if you fit something cheap purely for insurance purposes, you may end up with a product that gives very little protection. This includes most trackers. Better to get one of the three above and feel safe in the knowledge that you’ve made a worthwhile purchase.

All mechanical locks such as steering wheel locks can only be worthwhile, if only for deterrent purposes.

Also Advanced Insurance can source you an insurance quote with one of the bigger underwriters (Axa in my case), who don’t demand a Thatcham alarm or immobiliser. This will buy you time to fit the right thing.

Would be keen to hear what you decide.

Hi moho2beer a follow up to the security information that you all advised. I decided to fit the Bulldog DC 400 wheel-clamp really light weight and easy to fit. I ended up putting MetaSystem EasyCan alarm system on all the doors of the vehicle including a wireless door contact on the rear boot. The tracker system was Smar Track Protector Pro Global. I decided on the above only due to the fact the company I found online was only five minutes from our house. Hard bit is trying to find out to arm/disarm the alarm system Thanks again for all the help.

 

[BobRivers]

Two cannibal's on a desert island eating a clown, one says to the other does this taste funny to you

 

[moho2beer]

Thanks for the update Bob. Good to hear you managed to get something fitted.
I’ve deliberated long and hard over this situation as well... deciding to either fit a Pandora Camper alarm, fitted relatively locally or taking the long 400 mile drive to Vanbitz. Eventually the Vanbitz route won with the Pandora system reliant on wireless sensors. I just know from experience that wired anything will always be more reliable with no issues of jamming in this case. So I’m booked in soon with Vanbitz.

I even managed to get through the whole booking process with Vanbitz without making a childish joke about a Growler! Would normally have went for the trimmed down version, but the Growler comes highly recommended and is enough apparently to scare anyone away

 

[Smudger27]

I think all the time that my van is valuable and could be taken. I would never leave it in a vulnerable spot to go for a walk in the country. If stopping at services we take it in turns so there is always one person in the van. I have lots of stickers on the window saying it is alarmed. I have a Clutch Claw. I have an extra lock on the door. At home I block the van in with my car. If I go away without the van I get my neighbours to park in front of it. It is alarmed. It is worth a lot.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Thanks for the update Bob. Good to hear you managed to get something fitted.
I’ve deliberated long and hard over this situation as well... deciding to either fit a Pandora Camper alarm, fitted relatively locally or taking the long 400 mile drive to Vanbitz. Eventually the Vanbitz route won with the Pandora system reliant on wireless sensors. I just know from experience that wired anything will always be more reliable with no issues of jamming in this case. So I’m booked in soon with Vanbitz.

I even managed to get through the whole booking process with Vanbitz without making a childish joke about a Growler! Would normally have went for the trimmed down version, but the Growler comes highly recommended and is enough apparently to scare anyone away

A Vanbitz Growler plus non starter...... works for me. Fourth van with Vanbitz system. Unfortunately this van the insurance also insisted on a tracker as well. Quite satisfied that the system as about the best you can get plus most vital, is the aftersales and endless free coffee

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[Conrad J]

Basically, the more types of security, the more thieves will go to someone else’s van.
Couple of tips - if you get a steering wheel lock, they are big and heavy, need to consider where to safely keep it when not in use. Also look at engine fuses table in the handbook, you will probably find one or two that if taken out means it won’t start. Consider parking your car on the driveway to stop van being taken.

 

[Graham Mew]

Hi all we will hopefully soon be the new owners of a 626D Evidence and I have been trying to learn as much as I can about security. The dealer has been a little disappointing as they appear to have no available time to answer newbie questions, I'm also a little apprehensive of the customer service once they have the payment. I would appreciate if someone would be able to answer a few questions that I don't think I fully understand.
Does the above come with a standard Thatcham approved immobiliser or is it classed as just factory standard?
What does all the different Thatcham categories mean?
I would like to fit a tracker for security but also insurance purposes. There is lots of information that I have reviewed but feel more confused than ever. I would like to keep the costs reasonable and like to know what all the experienced MH members would advise?
Would disk lock be a good visible deterrent along with locking the drivers seat in the opposite position?
The MH will be kept in our driveway for the foreseeable. I've got so many more questions I would like answered but this will do for now

Hi Bob, Firstly if the dealer is as you describe look elsewhere. Check with the intended insurance company first to obtain what level of security they insist on and go to Thatcham website for full explanation of their categories. As for parking your motorhome outside on your drive first check with your local council and check the deeds to the property for there could be a covenant set by the developer of the property. Good luck.

 

[DavieA]

Hi moho2beer a follow up to the security information that you all advised. I decided to fit the Bulldog DC 400 wheel-clamp really light weight and easy to fit. I ended up putting MetaSystem EasyCan alarm system on all the doors of the vehicle including a wireless door contact on the rear boot. The tracker system was Smar Track Protector Pro Global. I decided on the above only due to the fact the company I found online was only five minutes from our house. Hard bit is trying to find out to arm/disarm the alarm system Thanks again for all the help.

Bob, What is the name of the company that you used? Davie

 

[BobRivers]

Bob, What is the name of the company that you used? Davie

Skidz based in Falkirk.

 

[DavieA]

Skidz based in Falkirk.

Thanks Bob. Much appreciated. Davie

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