Multimeter?

[MrPG]

Is this good enough for most requirements on a van?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-dc-digital-multimeter-600v/793rt
I’m new to this and trying to learn so please keep it simple

Thanks

Paul

 

[pappajohn]

That's fine.
Higher amps would have been better but not important

 

[MrPG]

That's fine.
Higher amps would have been better but not important

Thanks

 

[Googlebot]

In a word, yes.

 

[oldiesontour]

Under £20 I bought a clip on 600amp,,AC,DC meter with no contact voltage and temperature probe from Ali express Including vat and 8 day delivery super very accurate and far more use than the one in the link

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[fishplug]

Most of the time all I'm testing is either battery voltage or continuity in the van.

The Screwfix one will do the job.

Spend a bit more and get a bit more and if you want to learn and start to do more involved testing because it's something you're interested in then it may make sense to spend a bit more on a more capable / feature rich meter.

However, that's exactly the sort of meter I keep in the van in case I need to check a fuse or whatever. It'll do almost everything I normally use them for.

 

[pappajohn]

It can be an advantage to have a pair of crocodile clips leads as well.
Available from Amazon, eBay etc

 

[MrPG]

It can be an advantage to have a pair of crocodile clips leads as well.
Available from Amazon, eBay etc

I’ll splash out on those too

 

[oldiesontour]

A clip on ampmeter is invaluable on a vehicle particularly a MH,to test if power is being used,how much power is being used (charge being generated.

 

[ChrisL]

If you don't mind spending a bit more money, many of us have one of these, they are very handy for measuring even quite low dc current, as well as other multimeter functions.

UNI-T UT210D/UT201E Digital Clamp Meter True RMS Voltage Resistance Capacitance Multimeter Temperature Measure Auto Range Electrical (ABS) https://amzn.eu/d/8H0h0Lb

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[NR]

Being an amateur you would gain a substantial benefit from a clamp meter.

 

[MrPG]

Being an amateur you would gain a substantial benefit from a clamp meter.

Thanks. The first thing I want to test is a second solar regulator, connections and the solar panel to make sure it’s working.

What are the extra benefits of a clamp meter?

Thanks

Paul

 

[oldiesontour]

Thanks. The first thing I want to test is a second solar regulator, connections and the solar panel to make sure it’s working.

What are the extra benefits of a clamp meter?

Thanks

Paul

AS I SAID YOU CAN EASILY (without any physical connection) See the current travelling in a wire...so clip over the wire from your panels to controller see what panels are producing,clip over wire from controller to battery see what is going into battery....

 

[MrPG]

AS I SAID YOU CAN EASILY (without any physical connection) See the current travelling in a wire...so clip over the wire from your panels to controller see what panels are producing,clip over wire from controller to battery see what is going into battery....

I’m sorry, when did you say this?
It’s not in your previous reply. Have I missed something. Also no need to use CAPS. It’s this sort of attitude from some ‘experts’ on here that can be intimidating to some.

 

[oldiesontour]

I’m sorry, when did you say this?
It’s not in your previous reply. Have I missed something. Also no need to use CAPS. It’s this sort of attitude from some ‘experts’ on here that can be intimidating to some.

No intent to intimidate as far as I see it you either didn't read my input or completely ignored it saying U were going with your original choice then a few posts later asked others about the benefits I had raised.

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[ChrisL]

I’m sorry, when did you say this?
It’s not in your previous reply. Have I missed something. Also no need to use CAPS. It’s this sort of attitude from some ‘experts’ on here that can be intimidating to some.

There is a misunderstanding over the name of the device, oldiesontour refers to it as a clip on, whereas I and others refer to it as a clamp meter but I think he means the same thing, the clamp allows you to measure current without breaking into a circuit by opening the jaws and clamping it over a cable.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Thanks. The first thing I want to test is a second solar regulator, connections and the solar panel to make sure it’s working.

This is exactly what you'd use the clamp meter for linked in reply 10 above. They are excellent meters

 

[fishplug]

I know I said I normally use a basic meter for most jobs in the van (because it's true ), however I'd agree with oldiesontour who first mentioned it and ChrisL (who uses the same terminology I would - for me a clip on meter is something different) an Richard n Ann for pointing out that clamp meters are excellent for checking if current is flowing on a PV circuit.

It will do all the things that a normal multimeter will do, but it will also allow you to do a couple of extra things. The most relevant one to your use case scenario is that it will measure current without needing to put a probe in direct contact with some exposed metal part of the circuit.

You simply open the clamp and put it around (not on) the wire you want to test. This will then measure the current running through the wire. Note, you need to do this on an individual wire - if you have the negative and positive both in the same sleeve (like you would on a normal domestic appliance) and put the clamp round all the wires then it won't tell you what current is being drawn. You'd need to somehow separate the live wire and test that on its own (you can buy or make splitter adapters for domestic plugs but I'm straying from the topic..)

The other thing you can do (using the NCV or Non Contact Voltage setting) is simply to place it near some wiring and it will let you know if it's live or not.

Some of these meters can be really expensive and some are unimaginably cheap. I would avoid both of those (ask me why I wouldn't buy an unimaginably cheap one again.... ). Something in the £20-£40 range should be more than capable.

You can still use the £10 one you originally asked about to do the job - depending on what it is you're wanting to test exactly.

If there's an extra £10 - £30 in the pot though and you're only going to have one meter then a clamp meter is worth investing in.

I've picked up a few over the years so always carry one on each of my vehicles and have one in a toolbox and one in the garage and...

Very useful inexpensive little things.

 

[MrPG]

I know I said I normally use a basic meter for most jobs in the van (because it's true ), however I'd agree with oldiesontour who first mentioned it and ChrisL (who uses the same terminology I would - for me a clip on meter is something different) an Richard n Ann for pointing out that clamp meters are excellent for checking if current is flowing on a PV circuit.

It will do all the things that a normal multimeter will do, but it will also allow you to do a couple of extra things. The most relevant one to your use case scenario is that it will measure current without needing to put a probe in direct contact with some exposed metal part of the circuit.

You simply open the clamp and put it around (not on) the wire you want to test. This will then measure the current running through the wire. Note, you need to do this on an individual wire - if you have the negative and positive both in the same sleeve (like you would on a normal domestic appliance) and put the clamp round all the wires then it won't tell you what current is being drawn. You'd need to somehow separate the live wire and test that on its own (you can buy or make splitter adapters for domestic plugs but I'm straying from the topic..)

The other thing you can do (using the NCV or Non Contact Voltage setting) is simply to place it near some wiring and it will let you know if it's live or not.

Some of these meters can be really expensive and some are unimaginably cheap. I would avoid both of those (ask me why I wouldn't buy an unimaginably cheap one again.... ). Something in the £20-£40 range should be more than capable.

You can still use the £10 one you originally asked about to do the job - depending on what it is you're wanting to test exactly.

If there's an extra £10 - £30 in the pot though and you're only going to have one meter then a clamp meter is worth investing in.

I've picked up a few over the years so always carry one on each of my vehicles and have one in a toolbox and one in the garage and...

Very useful inexpensive little things.

Thanks very much. That’s really helpful.

I’ll see how I get on and if I can work out the problem I have.
I may have more questions.

Paul

 

[MrPG]

This is exactly what you'd use the clamp meter for linked in reply 10 above. They are excellent meters

Thank you. That makes sense now

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[MrPG]

This is exactly what you'd use the clamp meter for linked in reply 10 above. They are excellent meters

So with a clamp meter I can place it on individual solar cables before and after any MC4 connectors to check for faults?

 

[L' Hobo]

Thank you. That makes sense now

Just take care which clamp meter you buy.
Like you, I know little of electric and last year bought £30- 40 clamp meter that said AC/DC on the box.

Sadly, some weeks later when I was having problems with it, according to an Electrical Engineer I know, the AC is good but the 12v DC is poor!

It was the 12v DC I need it for!

 

[Richard n Ann]

Just take care which clamp meter you buy.
Like you, I know little of electric and last year bought £30- 40 clamp meter that said AC/DC on the box.

Sadly, some weeks later when I was having problems with it, according to an Electrical Engineer I know, the AC is good but the 12v DC is poor!

It was the 12v DC I need it for!

On the cheaper ones the DC scale is just voltage. The clamp is just for AC

 

[Richard n Ann]

So with a clamp meter I can place it on individual solar cables before and after any MC4 connectors to check for faults?

You measure current with the clamp on the individual cables, so if it reads zero when it's sunny there's something wrong.

 

[MrPG]

You measure current with the clamp on the individual cables, so if it reads zero when it's sunny there's something wrong.

Thanks. I’ve ordered the one recommended. Hopefully I can find the issue. Fixing it will be another thing

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[Richard n Ann]

Thanks. I’ve ordered the one recommended. Hopefully I can find the issue. Fixing it will be another thing

Should be quite simple now. First check the voltages with the meter leads, if the voltages are correct, current should be flowing.

Solar panel voltage should be 18+ volts on the controller inputs

 

[fishplug]

So with a clamp meter I can place it on individual solar cables before and after any MC4 connectors to check for faults?

Sort of maybe, possibly...

What's the setup you're looking to test?

What we know is that you have 2 x MPPT(?) controllers and at least one new solar panel that you want to test and I'm going to assume there are some batteries.

Can you tell us more about how it's all connected?

For testing the panel itself you can simply use the probes on the multimeter (or clamp meter) and set the dial to DC voltage (making sure the number of volts is higher than your solar panel's OCV (open circuit voltage) maximum. Stick the probes into the MC4 connectors making sure that you have the polarity correct (!) and that you're making proper contact with the metal crimp inside the connector. You may need to wiggle the probes or squeeze the connector slightly.

You'll see a voltage reading (if the panel is working) and it's more than likely going to be lower than the OCV figure stated in the panel's specs. This is normal because that number is the theoretical maximum the panel can put out but in low light you'll get a lower figure.

As with any electrical testing, be methodical. Rule things out in a logical sequence.

If I was using a multimeter I'd probably start with the panel because if that isn't generating power then you won't be able to find it anywhere else.

If you know the panel works then go to the next part of the circuit.

On mine that would be the MCB between the panel and the MPPT controller. You might have a fuse or maybe you've just gone straight into the MPPT (which I personally don't think is best practice).

MCBs are easy because there are screw terminals at the top where the cable comes in and again at the bottom where the cable comes out. You can just put your probes across these and check if you've still got electricity coming through.

If you've got a fuse then you can remove it and test the fuse itself by putting the meter into continuity mode and putting the probes across both sides of the fuse. Actually a visual check will normally be enough to see when a fuse has blown as it's usually pretty obvious - but if it looks OK then test it because they can fail without the dramatic visible clues.

If the fuse is OK then you need to test the next thing in the circuit. Again, MPPT controllers will have terminals where the PV cables come in and where the 12v circuit comes out. Check that you've still got voltage across the + and - on the PV input and then again across the + and - on the 12v output.

If either of those fail then just double check that your physical connections have been made properly. If you've got PV coming in but nothing coming out then somethings wrong with the MPPT or its connections.

However, if that's working correctly then go further down the line to the next thing etc etc.

However, if I was using a clamp meter then I'd probably do it the other way round. Clamp the meter around the + PV cable just before it comes in to the MPPT controller. Takes 1 second and if you've got power then you know your panel is OK, you know your fuse or MCB is OK, you know your MC4 connection is OK... You just ruled a bunch of stuff out without spending much time at all....

From my own experience, panels are generally pretty reliable. I think the most probably cause of a fault is a poor connection somewhere and a DIY crimped MC4 connector would be high on that list, as would the seating of cables in / out of the MPPT controller. If you've just twisted the strands of wire then one of them might have not gone in properly and shorted out as it touched the opposite pole (this is why I use ferrules now, but again that's slightly off topic). I've had it where I thought I'd inserted a cable into and MPPT terminal but had missed. It was difficult to access and see and it 'felt' right but I'd just not seated it properly.

The other thing that's easy to do, especially if you don't have much experience, is to not have calculated your MPPT size correctly. I almost did this on my first install as my B2B charger had a built in MPPT but it was not capable of handling the voltage of my 2 panels in series (when you wire in series the voltages add up together but the amps remain the same, in parallel you get the opposite). Luckily, I never connected the wires but if I had I would have burned out the controller.

Anyway, I've done my usual thing of providing a needlessly long answer to a simple question, but I hope some of it is helpful

 

[MrPG]

Thanks, again very helpful.
I’m very methodical and logical so that’s a good start. Just a novice with solar.

I have an additional Votronic MPP 250 Duo installed with fly leads to connect a folding/directionsl panel to.
This is in addition to a roof mounted panel also with a Votronic MPP 250 Duo. The roof panel is only 160 w but I do have a 50A B2B and 200A of lithium and so far has met our needs but later this year I want to be off grid without moving for longer or parked in the shade.
I bought a cheap 60w panel to test this out and haven't had any success with it at all. The MPP light on the regulator is continually blinking which the manual describes as “Display of readiness for service in case of missing solar power (at night)”.
With the winter sun very low the roof panel is showing 1.0A coming in on the NDS display.
So I plugged in the directional panel, covered the roof panel with card and angled the directional panel to the low sun.
Nothing from it, the NDS display showing 0.0Aand still the regulator blinks at me.

This was installed by RoadPro who did the roof, lithium, B2B and that’s been great.
They are now only doing supply and yes I could go back to them but I thought I’d try and figure it out myself with help from funsters.

The meter will be here tomorrow. Doubt the sun will.

Thanks

Paul

 

[fishplug]

Sounds like there aren't too many moving parts to worry about.

Do you know what the OCV of the 80w panel is listed at?

I'd also try pulling out the 30A fuse from the Votronic and just having a look (and possibly try another 30A fuse if you've got one) while you're waiting for the meter to arrive.

*edit, was just looking at pics of the Votronic and it looks like some are 20A not 30... again, it would be interesting to know which one you have

 

[MrPG]

Sounds like there aren't too many moving parts to worry about.

Do you know what the OCV of the 80w panel is listed at?

I'd also try pulling out the 30A fuse from the Votronic and just having a look (and possibly try another 30A fuse if you've got one) while you're waiting for the meter to arrive.

*edit, was just looking at pics of the Votronic and it looks like some are 20A not 30... again, it would be interesting to know which one you have

It’s 20A
OCV? Open Circuit Voltage?