More good news from CAMpRA

[wp1234]

Bet the two big Clubs will as usual be highly supportive

 

[zedman]

How often have people been prosecuted with this law?

never ....as far as I know

 

[GJH]

If MHF can become an exempted organisation (which it is) I am sure that the NT can.

Perhaps you need to study the rules for qualifying as an exempted organisation before making such statements.

 

[GJH]

never ....as far as I know

Parhaps you haven't looked hard enough

 

[GJH]

This is their standard form when asking partners to set up parking and quite clearly states not camping so I believe the do appreciate the difference so please stop being so negative And encourage and help them
View attachment 557036
This years increased in staycations has highlighted a lack in facilities for camping, caravans and motorcaravans and proven a long term problem with the UK network of campsites.



There are currently over 255,000 registered motorcaravans in the UK and over 1 million in europe.

Surveys show that the average amount spent locally when staying overnight is over £45

If only 10% of UK owners were staying 1 night that is over £1.4 million per day.

So how can “Authority Name” attract motorcaravans and benefit from this



• Firstly we must understand that a motorcaravan only needs a place to park (not camp) if they want to set up camp they will use a campsite.


• They should be limited to 48 or 72 hours stays


• They need water and waste disposal points every few days


• These are commonly known as “aires” and there are several thousand of these throughout europe but very few in the UK.


• For a local council provision of these is relatively easy and with minimum investment and they can be used to fund existing facilities.


• Motorcaravans tour 365 days per year.


Examples of Aires (overnight parking - No Camping)



1. Overnight parking and sleeping - This is the easiest provision for a council as they can use their existing powers or by a TRO to allow overnight parking for self contained motorcaravans only (no camping behaviour) in car parks or on any plot of level land. Preferably with specific allocated motorcaravan bays.


2. Overnight parking with water and waste points (these are required every 4 to 5 days) and will prevent any illegal emptying of waste. - These will require an initial investment which can be kept to a minimum if toilets already exist as it is simply an outside tap and toilet cassette emptying. Ideally a drive over drain (see example provided) for grey waste (washing up and shower water) could be provided and bins for rubbish.


3. Service points only - These can be installed where there is access for one vehicle but no parking. Good examples are public toilets as this is a great way of funding a public toilet ( £3 to use only 10 vans per day £11,000 per year). Other examples are car wash, local garage, village hall, church or any local businesses that have water and sewage.


4. Full blown aire - These require some initial investment or can be outsourced to a professional body who will install and manage these on your behalf. You retain ownership of the land and receive of percentage of the revenue from parking. These are secure areas with entrance barriers, cctv, electric points and are accessed by a pre paid card (we are able to provide details of a company specialising in these).


5. Existing campsite - Aires do not take business away from campsites as most motorcaravan owners do use campsites if staying for more than a few days but campsites are often out of town, have grass pitches, are seasonal, require pre booking often months in advance, often require min stays and are increasingly FULL. But there is no reason they cannot learn from our european neighbours where campsite cater for motorcaravans by having non bookable overnight budget parking (no camping), access to service points (for a small charge) and of course when the main site closes these can continue to operate and provide additional income.


Other Benefits for “Authority Name”



• Allowing motorcaravans to park closer to towns and villages encourages spending in local businesses on average £45 per day.
• Allowing aires with water and waste points would reduce the illegal emptying of waste by irresponsible motorcaravan owners which is good for the environment.
• Small clubs struggling for funds could establish aires as an income stream using existing car parks.


The UK is crying out for a network like this especially now with an increase in staycations and rapid growth in sales

Who is being negative? Only pointing out the requirements.
Campra's statement "a motorcaravan only needs a place to park (not camp)" might reflect the situation in other countries but it does not reflect the facts in this country - and the requirements which anyone setting up an aire in this country needs to meet.

Would you prefer to mislead people?

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[jongood]

Does anyone else fancy adding their voice to this discussion?

Potential sites for Waste Point Funding - Campaign for Real Aires UK - CAMpRA

Hope I'm not breaking any rules here Jim, if so of course I'm happy for you to delete it.

 

[JockandRita]

Does anyone else fancy adding their voice to this discussion?

Done Jon.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Speve]

Does anyone else fancy adding their voice to this discussion?

Potential sites for Waste Point Funding - Campaign for Real Aires UK - CAMpRA

Hope I'm not breaking any rules here Jim, if so of course I'm happy for you to delete it.

Just done so

 

[VXman]

Bet the two big Clubs will as usual be highly supportive

Maybe a little competition will encourage them to bring their prices down!

 

[82125]

Yes and changed it now. As for parking members get it free, but non-members have to pay.

Without the benefit of more revenue why would anybody want to allow motorhomes to stay on their property at night? Would you be happy to allow complete strangers to park on your property for nowt? And then have to empty bins more often, pay extra insurance premiums and all the other hidden costs.

not remotely the same analogy (parking on someones drive and a NT property).
NT locations are places for the public to visit. I'm actually joining the NT once my English Heritage expires, why? because I get SOMETHING in return for the payment.
I'd completely agree if the NT made parking free only for its members, but all the NT places ive visited were free to anyone (to park) and had no bins or anything else that would as you say, cost them more to empty more frequently.
I'm yet to see a MH leave any of this rubbish they're so easily reputed to do at cost to the councils/trusts that make that case, motorists in cars doing it however, I see regularly, yet never hear of proposals to charge them "to cover the expense of cleaning up after them". So, any notion to begin charging MH's to park overnight would (in my opinion) be no different to the council car park cash grabs.

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[Speve]

Who is being negative? Only pointing out the requirements.
Campra's statement "a motorcaravan only needs a place to park (not camp)" might reflect the situation in other countries but it does not reflect the facts in this country - and the requirements which anyone setting up an aire in this country needs to meet.

Would you prefer to mislead people?

Perhaps you could sign up to this with your expertise you will be invaluable?

CAMPRA
As previously discussed we are setting up some working groups (small teams to include any member who has experience they can share with the leadership team).
These teams work as a small working group and will present their recommendations to leadership meetings.

The groups are visible to forum members and the names of the group members but not the posts in the forum.

Posts are only visible to the members of the group.

This will allow members to see if there are areas where they can be of assistance.
If you would like to join a group and provide input into the decisions made by our leadership team please email on: contact@campra.org.uk with details of skills or expertise that you think will assist us.

Main Board
Working Groups

 

[GJH]

Perhaps you could sign up to this with your expertise you will be invaluable?

CAMPRA
As previously discussed we are setting up some working groups (small teams to include any member who has experience they can share with the leadership team).
These teams work as a small working group and will present their recommendations to leadership meetings.

The groups are visible to forum members and the names of the group members but not the posts in the forum.

Posts are only visible to the members of the group.

This will allow members to see if there are areas where they can be of assistance.
If you would like to join a group and provide input into the decisions made by our leadership team please email on: contact@campra.org.uk with details of skills or expertise that you think will assist us.

Main Board
Working Groups

Somebody asked me to do that when it started but when I mentioned the difference betwen parking and camping I received the usual abuse. I had enough of that over the 13 years that I ran my own web site and contacted every council in the country about both daytime parking and overnight camping. Enough is enough I'm afraid.

EDIT. Having said that I am happy for anyone to use the information in these articles which I wrote some years ago: https://www.gjh.me.uk/mhpark/mhpark.htm, https://www.gjh.me.uk/mhpark/offsite.htm, https://www.gjh.me.uk/aires.htm

 

[peterc10]

not remotely the same analogy (parking on someones drive and a NT property).
NT locations are places for the public to visit. I'm actually joining the NT once my English Heritage expires, why? because I get SOMETHING in return for the payment.
I'd completely agree if the NT made parking free only for its members, but all the NT places ive visited were free to anyone (to park) and had no bins or anything else that would as you say, cost them more to empty more frequently.
I'm yet to see a MH leave any of this rubbish they're so easily reputed to do at cost to the councils/trusts that make that case, motorists in cars doing it however, I see regularly, yet never hear of proposals to charge them "to cover the expense of cleaning up after them". So, any notion to begin charging MH's to park overnight would (in my opinion) be no different to the council car park cash grabs.

Of course it is a valid analogy. NT is private property, just as your garden is, and it is up to them who they invite on it and on what terms. If you are not willing to pay for what they offer you can't use it, simple as that. You seem to want NT and other organisations to put themselves out for you and let you park for free, as if it is some "right". But it isn't a right, in exactly the same way as I don't have the right to park on your garden.

 

[GJH]

Of course it is a valid analogy. NT is private property, just as your garden is, and it is up to them who they invite on it and on what terms. If you are not willing to pay for what they offer you can't use it, simple as that. You seem to want NT and other organisations to put themselves out for you and let you park for free, as if it is some "right". But it isn't a right, in exactly the same way as I don't have the right to park on your garden.

A common theme over the years from some posters, especially when aimed at councils

 

[CazPaul]

This thread should be celebrating a bit of good news surely, although the NT overnight price will probably be about £20.

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[Tarn2]

Brilliant, maybe drop them an email to tell NT this. The more of us they hear from, they more they may be persuaded to extend the scheme.
enquiries@nationaltrust.org.uk

Email sent with fingers crossed

 

[AndyPK]

email sent and acknowledgment received from NT.

 

[82125]

Of course it is a valid analogy. NT is private property, just as your garden is, and it is up to them who they invite on it and on what terms. If you are not willing to pay for what they offer you can't use it, simple as that. You seem to want NT and other organisations to put themselves out for you and let you park for free, as if it is some "right". But it isn't a right, in exactly the same way as I don't have the right to park on your garden.

do you need people to visit your drive or garden in order to stay afloat? Is your garden or drive in the public interest in terms of a facility they might wish to visit?
Not the same analogy at all really is it?

I dont "want" or expect anything, other than, if someone expects payment, i expect something in return for it. My societal expectations are extremely low for good reason, but there will be no more handouts on my part ever since I quit the farcical rat-rat most aspire to.

Read what it says on the £10 (or other) note that you seem happy to give away for nothing in return. Its essentially an IOU, in which case I expect to receive something in return for said earned IOU before passing it on to someone else.

..and i dont have a drive or garden, the world is our (i wont use the word "my" because that assumes ownership to it) garden.

Back on topic, I hope the NT can follow suit like the Scottish Stay The Night scheme did and will be interested to hear their findings too. https://forestryandland.gov.scot/staythenight

 

[jongood]

This thread should be celebrating a bit of good news surely, although the NT overnight price will probably be about £20.

Couldnt agree more Paul, Campra have achieved a lot in a short space of time and should be applauded for it.

 

[Silver-Fox]

I’ve heard back from N T.

Apparently there is no trial ongoing at the moment but I was sent a link where Motorhomes can go.

I did then reply saying it might be worth N T looking into overnighting in their car parks for S C vehicles.

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[JockandRita]

This thread should be celebrating a bit of good news surely, although the NT overnight price will probably be about £20.

It might be for some Paul, but it won't for us. There is no way I'm paying £120 annually for Joint Membership to the NT, then paying them £20 to park overnight. And as you know me well, you know I'm not a tightwad, but I refuse to be ripped off where I can help it.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[GarryP]

Wow! This thread has drifted along way from the title "More good news from CAMpRA"

 

[82125]

Wow! This thread has drifted along way from the title "More good news from CAMpRA"

just trying to keep it in perspective, so that organisations need to realise they need to actually offer a service in return for payment.
Its all very well quoting the need for additional places for parking spots to meet increased demand, but catering to occasional MH'ers on their annual 2 week outing who dont see a problem with a paying £10 or £20 a night for a few days each year without actually offering logistical services needed (taking on water, dropping grey, black waste and refuse) isnt going to address the problem.

 

[Roseandpeter]

I received a reply from the National Trust. Very polite but not very encouraged that anything will happen soon. This is their reply. Hopefully, if they keep getting enquiries they may think again.

Thank you for your email.

I'm afraid we are not able to offer overnight parking at our car parks or properties, even for members.

We understand that many people wish to enjoy these places after a certain time or to stay overnight but due to a small minority of individuals who have not treated these spaces with respect, we are not currently able to offer parking past the specified times on our website.

We do however have many motorhome and campervan site which are available to stay at. I have put a link for this below.

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/holiday-lists/caravans-campervans-and-motorhomes

I hope this helps.

 

[jongood]

just trying to keep it in perspective, so that organisations need to realise they need to actually offer a service in return for payment.
Its all very well quoting the need for additional places for parking spots to meet increased demand, but catering to occasional MH'ers on their annual 2 week outing who dont see a problem with a paying £10 or £20 a night for a few days each year without actually offering logistical services needed (taking on water, dropping grey, black waste and refuse) isnt going to address the problem.

Imo its going to be easier to achieve more locations if we dont burden them with providing waste points. As these are generally limited to 48 hours then surely most people can last at least that long.

If they want/need that level of service then the probably are better suited to campsites.

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[Fragle]

If charges are any less it will unfortunately attract the type that already give campervan/motorhomers a bad name..

Great news if it comes to true but it still find it amazing that people are happy to give away money.
£10 to those with a potfull to keep away us undesirables who don't think £10 to park in an empty car park when your already a member is right

It might be for some Paul, but it won't for us. There is no way I'm paying £120 annually for Joint Membership to the NT, then paying them £20 to park overnight. And as you know me well, you know I'm not a tightwad, but I refuse to be ripped off where I can help it.

Cheers,

Jock.

I'm with you Jock and just so anyone can see why I think £10 is to much. No membership required just common sense

 

[Cie]

Back on topic, I hope the NT can follow suit like the Scottish Stay The Night scheme did and will be interested to hear their findings too. https://forestryandland.gov.scot/staythenight

CAMpRA are still working with the NT, and have contacts at good levels in the organisation, so despite replies coming back to your emails that are a bit vague or just a standard response, by sending the emails with every one you are increasing the awareness by the NT of the potential demand, so do keep emailing and don’t be disheartened by lack of helpful responses.
On the subject of the forestry scheme, they are also reviewing this now so contacting the email address provided by Calm Seas above would also be good.
Thanks everyone for your support.

 

[Cie]

Just seen this post go up today on Facebook, showing a positive response from NT. Please keep contacting them if you’d like overnight parking to be allowed as they mention the “incredible response” they’ve had recently. Email is enquiries@nationaltrust.org.uk

“A long-term member, I wrote to the National Trust a week or so ago about the possibility of parking overnight at National Trust car parks, car parks which could be suitable for motorhomes and I pointed out again what a wonderful income stream it would be.

I’ve just had this reply which is very encouraging!

Dear Mr B

Thank you for taking the time to get in touch with us, please accept our apologies for the delay in responding to you.

We already welcome campervans and motorhomes at some of the places in our care. However, it’s clear from the incredible response in recent weeks that we need to do more to support overnight stays in our car parks at National Trust places, where we can.

Therefore, we’re working up a plan to allow campervan and motorhome users to stay overnight at more of our places. We’ve been trialling this in the Lake District this year and we’re now considering how we roll this out across selected locations next year.

I hope that this brings you some assurance.

Kind regards

Jo

Governance Support Co-ordinator”