Moray Council proposing managed overnight parking

Completed
nicholsong said:
Does not sound much like a consultation, more like a 'take it or leave it'. Answer Yes or No.
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Slightly more comprehensive than that (especially if you know the area).

Happy to complete a survey which encourages provision of 'legitimate' stopovers in preference to simply banning overnight parking...
 
Gaston aires said:
I just did the survey. We need more stopovers especially on the NC 500
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Having recently returned after a month of non-stop sunshine, I can confirm Moray (and the Moray Firth) has some lovely places to visit

And crucially, it means you can avoid the (now slightly tainted) NC500. ;)
 
Survey completed, only took 5 minutes.
A couple of suggestions made; provide basic waste disposal facilities, 2 night maximum stay rather than 1, seek input from an established touring organisation. The questions requiring local knowledge I left blank.
The more stopover options available the better.
 
nicholsong said:
Does not sound much like a consultation, more like a 'take it or leave it'. Answer Yes or No.
Click to expand...

That comment I made was based on the introduction to the survey request which listed the rules for an overnight stop, and that sounded as though the Moray Council had already decided how the stopovers would work.

One example was stating that no waste disposal would be provided. I thought that was one of the biggest complaints about the behaviour of motor caravan users.

The introduction include limiting the stops to vehicles with their own facilities, but the title included 'campervans', which according to some people's definition would include some without internal toilets and showers.

The whole tone of the approach and survey seemed to be just providing permission to park, but with more restrictions than would be for a car. Cars are not limited in the way Moray's rules apply to these stopovers, so why should they apply to motor caravans?

Councils do not generally take notice of the legal definitions which apply to the vehicles which they are trying to regulate. We know from reports that there are many continental registered vehicles touring Scotland. Most, if not all, of these vehicles will not have 'Body type Motor Caravan', which is a special UK description along with 'revenue weight', on their registration document, and just 'Category M1', like a car.

Councils resort to mainly unenforceable notices such as 'No overnight parking', 'No sleeping' etc., with no apparent legal basis in law, and no legal means of enforcement, and which seem to be there to placate the local 'nimby' population - and to frighten off motorhomers, which unfortunately seems to work.

The whole idea of provision of special parking (not 'camping', because Moray anticipate no chairs and tables) for motorhomes is predicated on the basis of restrictions on them not being parked in regular car parks, otherwise no special provision for motorhome parking would be needed.

Most of what Moray's introduction suggests could be achieved by increasing spaces in car parks.

Several councils in Britain, e.g. Powys and Hereford seem to have achieved this. Moray seem to be treading a different path of segregation of cars and motorhomes. In France I have never been reprimanded, neither by authorities nor locals, for parking sensibly in a village CP.
 
nicholsong said:
That comment I made was based on the introduction to the survey request which listed the rules for an overnight stop, and that sounded as though the Moray Council had already decided how the stopovers would work.

One example was stating that no waste disposal would be provided. I thought that was one of the biggest complaints about the behaviour of motor caravan users.

The introduction include limiting the stops to vehicles with their own facilities, but the title included 'campervans', which according to some people's definition would include some without internal toilets and showers.

The whole tone of the approach and survey seemed to be just providing permission to park, but with more restrictions than would be for a car. Cars are not limited in the way Moray's rules apply to these stopovers, so why should they apply to motor caravans?

Councils do not generally take notice of the legal definitions which apply to the vehicles which they are trying to regulate. We know from reports that there are many continental registered vehicles touring Scotland. Most, if not all, of these vehicles will not have 'Body type Motor Caravan', which is a special UK description along with 'revenue weight', on their registration document, and just 'Category M1', like a car.

Councils resort to mainly unenforceable notices such as 'No overnight parking', 'No sleeping' etc., with no apparent legal basis in law, and no legal means of enforcement, and which seem to be there to placate the local 'nimby' population - and to frighten off motorhomers, which unfortunately seems to work.

The whole idea of provision of special parking (not 'camping', because Moray anticipate no chairs and tables) for motorhomes is predicated on the basis of restrictions on them not being parked in regular car parks, otherwise no special provision for motorhome parking would be needed.

Most of what Moray's introduction suggests could be achieved by increasing spaces in car parks.

Several councils in Britain, e.g. Powys and Hereford seem to have achieved this. Moray seem to be treading a different path of segregation of cars and motorhomes. In France I have never been reprimanded, neither by authorities nor locals, for parking sensibly in a village CP.
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Plenty of room for comments in the survey. I'm sure the Council will welcome your input and it may avoid 'No overnight parking' signs (whether backed up with enforceable Traffic regulation Orders or not) that lots of other councils (in England mainly) have introduced.
 
Survey didn't cover 'don't know' answers. So I answered yes to questions along the lines of 'Do you think these car parks are suitable?'.
 
Do you all realise that the consultation is meant for those in the local communities to complete and not a open to all one?
 
Minxy said:
Do you all realise that the consultation is meant for those in the local communities to complete and not a open to all one?
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I think not Mel, because there are questions in there about being a visitor and by what method.

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999RAR said:
I found Morayshire to be motorhome friendly. Reasonably priced aires and Lossiemouth has 3 car parks which are free.
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Just to expand, Lossiemouth or Moray Council do ask for a voluntary donation for overnight stays, the contributions have helped with the opening of the toilets. Local traders have told me they do benefit from our community and welcome us.

Survey done.
 
nicholsong said:
I think not Mel, because there are questions in there about being a visitor and by what method.
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I'm referring to the reasons etc given in the initial blurb which states local communities. I haven't looked at the actual survey questions yet but it appears flawed if, according to some comments above, it's asking for opinions on whether a car park is suitable when visitors may well not have a clue but are forced to give an answer as a guess due to the absence of a "don't know" response.

When I get a minute I'll have a shuftie but suspect we are not the target respondents.
 
Survey is open to (potential) visitors too.

You can leave blanks if you don't know. If you accidentally select 'yes', you can just deselect.

If in doubt, I can assure you all the car parks are perfectly suitable for an overnight stopover (and can accommodate more than the initial numbers proposed!).

If this also means the council can avoid introducing daytime charges for parking (as we're seeing everywhere) then it's definitely a win for locals.
 
I gave up, in a couple of questions it had a list of areas I'd never heard of any of them and without an answer it wouldn't let me proceeded.
Very poorly constructed survey & we are unlikely to visit Scotland again anyway.
 
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Surely any council offering Aires has to be supported, some of the places mentioned are on the NE250 so they are probably trying to prevent some of the issues seen on the NC500. Coming from the NE Scotland we often see that Moray gets the highest temperatures in this area, sometimes even reaches 20C!!!

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The trouble is IMHO that if we take the Motor Home Parking at Findhorn Beach which started I believe in 2021 providing overnight parking with WC for 21 vehicles, it started with an honesty box for arround 8/10 per night restricted to a max stay of 2 nights. It has now progressed to offering WC on The West Beach, and refuse bins not sure about Black/Grey waste though.
The MH Parking now has ANPR Barrier control, and its asked that you pre book, or wait for 15 mins plus to register at the barrier. The price has now risen yet again to £17 per night, probably to cover the price of the barrier control! which is more than I would expect to pay for a car par with just a public WC.
I probably wont use this parking only facility at that price, but will continue to research better deals at small independent sites or CL/CS, or find out of the way places as we have done for years now.
Many Thanks to Campra for their efforts in getting more options for overnight parking for MH''s, but they wont be used by some if they are not reasonably priced and offer Black/Grey waste disposal and water at Findhorn Prices.
LES
 
Survey filled in and I do not do surveys as a general rule but any positive encouragement for more Aires should helped along 😁.

Cheers Cris 🍻
 
TinaLes said:
The MH Parking now has ANPR Barrier control, and its asked that you pre book, or wait for 15 mins plus to register at the barrier. The price has now risen yet again to £17 per night, probably to cover the price of the barrier control!
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The UK just doesn't seem to be able to grasp what Aires are about. Pre booking just doesn't work for us and is not normal for Aires, also charging £17 for stopping in a car park is far too much unless it is next to a major attraction.
 

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