Making the change from lead acid to lithium - a thread with pictures

[Rosie and David]

Thanks, now just have to sort out spaghetti junction behind the EBL to fit the B2B. There are wires everywhere. But with cable ties, some laminate board and some brackets it should be fine

 

[Googlebot]

Thanks, now just have to sort out spaghetti junction behind the EBL to fit the B2B. There are wires everywhere. But with cable ties, some laminate board and some brackets it should be fine

It all looks better with cable ties.

 

[Rosie and David]

It may seem a bit dim but what setting on multimeter and between D+ and what? With engine running?

 

[Googlebot]

Set it to DC volts in the 20v range.

The red lead goes to the D+ wire and the black lead to any ground point that’s convenient.

Should be nothing with the engine off and 13+ volts with engine running.

 

[paddymcc]

It may seem a bit dim but what setting on multimeter and between D+ and what? With engine running?

Check it without the engine running, positive on the multimeter to the D+ and negative to an earth point. Should be zero. Then repeat with engine running and should be 14V or so.
Edit - beaten by Googlebot

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[Rosie and David]

Thanks to both of you. I never mind asking! I know a lot about photography and film making and deep sea biology, but electrics is a dark art!

 

[WildBunch]

Hi . f #242. Can you just remove the 20 A fuse labelled Internes Lademodul to disable the EBL30 leisure battery charging?

To return to the question of Isolating the EBL 30 mains charging when on hook up.
Rather than removing the fuse is it not possible to remove the fuse & replace with a RKURCK re-settable 12 V DC 20 amp circuit breaker.
Simply plug the wires using 6 mm spade connectors into the fuse holder. Great car will be required that the 2 wires are not shorted, but make a good connection.
This will isolate the Hab charging, whilst maintaining all the other EBL functions.

 

[tonyidle]

Hi . f #242. Can you just remove the 20 A fuse labelled Internes Lademodul to disable the EBL30 leisure battery charging?

To return to the question of Isolating the EBL 30 mains charging when on hook up.
Rather than removing the fuse is it not possible to remove the fuse & replace with a RKURCK re-settable 12 V DC 20 amp circuit breaker.
Simply plug the wires using 6 mm spade connectors into the fuse holder. Great car will be required that the 2 wires are not shorted, but make a good connection.
This will isolate the Hab charging, whilst maintaining all the other EBL functions.

I simply pull the 'kettle plug' out of the EBL.

 

[WildBunch]

Unfortunately the EBL30 does not have that type of lead it is hard wired. Also if you disconnect the mains, you loose the display panel over the door.

 

[Lenny HB]

Unfortunately the EBL30 does not have that type of lead it is hard wired. Also if you disconnect the mains, you loose the display panel over the door.

It plugs in with a Wago connector just behind the EBL.

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[Pausim]

Hi . f #242. Can you just remove the 20 A fuse labelled Internes Lademodul to disable the EBL30 leisure battery charging?

To return to the question of Isolating the EBL 30 mains charging when on hook up.
Rather than removing the fuse is it not possible to remove the fuse & replace with a RKURCK re-settable 12 V DC 20 amp circuit breaker.
Simply plug the wires using 6 mm spade connectors into the fuse holder. Great car will be required that the 2 wires are not shorted, but make a good connection.
This will isolate the Hab charging, whilst maintaining all the other EBL functions.

I have lost track of this thread a bit but why not just remove the 20A fuse. This will stop the EBL from charging your battery but leave the mains light on when on EHU and allow the trickle charge to the engine battery.

 

[WildBunch]

The reasons I suggest the use of a circuit breaker rather than keep removing the fuse are :-
The CB can be located in a convent location.
The fuse may get lost.
I stops me pulling the wrong fuse.

 

[cyberyacht]

A fuse would be easier than asking the mother superior for access.

 

[MICK Dickinson]

This thread is great. I am towing with the idea of installing solar and upgrading to lithiums….

 

[WildBunch]

I finally got round to changing to lithium over the weekend.
I was instructed by SHMBO that I was not to do the job myself, as she could not stand the stress of me doing it & getting it wrong or struggling to do it. I would have had to do it parked up outside the house.
I had the job done by Oaktree Motorhomes , Rob & his crew were very professional & helpful. They answered my many technical questions. The job is great & seems to be working fine. I will have to learn what the system / App will do & how long I can stay off grid etc.
In the end I replaced the 2 X 95 Ah AGM batteries with one 110 Ah Eco Tree LifePo4 battery. I went down the Victron route & fitted a smart shunt, Orion 30 amp B to B & a new MPPT solar controller. There is still room for a second battery if needed in the future.

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[Wingman123]

Very interesting message; would you mind giving us a ballpark figure for the total cost of the total bill as I believe my battery is on the way out and looking to do similar probably at the end of the year.

 

[Googlebot]

I finally got round to changing to lithium over the weekend.
I was instructed by SHMBO that I was not to do the job myself, as she could not stand the stress of me doing it & getting it wrong or struggling to do it. I would have had to do it parked up outside the house.
I had the job done by Oaktree Motorhomes , Rob & his crew were very professional & helpful. They answered my many technical questions. The job is great & seems to be working fine. I will have to learn what the system / App will do & how long I can stay off grid etc.
In the end I replaced the 2 X 95 Ah AGM batteries with one 110 Ah Eco Tree LifePo4 battery. I went down the Victron route & fitted a smart shunt, Orion 30 amp B to B & a new MPPT solar controller. There is still room for a second battery if needed in the future.

I love my setup, one of the best things I have done on the Motorhome.

Glad you got it sorted.

 

[growly_bear]

Hi Googlebot, this thread hasn't been used for a while. Would you mind if I asked a few questions? Your Exsis I is very similar to my 2015 I414 and I'm upgrading to Lithium too? There has been some great reading and discussion, but want to clear up a few aspects in my head to make sure I've got everything straight!
Starting with:
1) does the 20A fuse on the front of the EBL29 disconnect the charging from mains hook up to the hab battery? Is that the only aspect which this fuse disconnects?
2) Does the 50A fuse on the engine battery disconnect the EBL from charging the hab battery when the engine is running?
3) What does the 20A fuse on the engine battery do?
4) Where is the EBL earthed?
5) What is the size of the wire coming from the 50A fused starter connection to the EBL starter?
6) Is the wire in point 5 oversize, so could it carry a 50A current safely if the fuse rating was increased?

That'll do for now!

Thanks in advance

 

[Dorwyn]

This is my current setup, space is tight and to be frank, it’s a mess!

View attachment 455719

That's neat in comparison with what I could do! When i think of the first and second conversion i did!!,

 

[Lenny HB]

I can answer those for you.

Yes, the 20 fuse on the EBL just disconnects the mains charger to the hab battery.

Yes removing the 50 amp fuse by the starter battery disables the split charge relay and stops the hab battery charging with the engine runnng.

The 20 amp fuse by the starter battery supplies the fridge power with the engine running and trickle charges the starter battery from the EBL.

The cable from the 50 amp fuse is 16 mm sq, and would be OK for a 50 amp B2B if the cable run is up to 2m.

I would also add don't use that maxi blade fuse holder fit a Midi fuse.

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[growly_bear]

I can answer those for you.

Yes, the 20 fuse on the EBL just disconnects the mains charger to the hab battery.

Yes removing the 50 amp fuse by the starter battery disables the split charge relay and stops the hab battery charging with the engine runnng.

The 20 amp fuse by the starter battery supplies the fridge power with the engine running and trickle charges the starter battery from the EBL.

The cable from the 50 amp fuse is 16 mm sq, and would be OK for a 50 amp B2B if the cable run is up to 2m.

I would also add don't use that maxi blade fuse holder fit a Midi fuse.

Thank you Lenny HB , I had a feeling that you'd be along too! You read my mind re the 50A dcdc. Planning on fitting a Renogy DCC50 with solar capability.

Where is the EBL earthed?

 

[Lenny HB]

Thank you Lenny HB , I had a feeling that you'd be along too! You read my mind re the 50A dcdc. Planning on fitting a Renogy DCC50 with solar capability.

Problem with that one is when it sees a solar input the B2B output reduces to 25amp. You can get arund with a switch on the solar input or a relay switched by the D+.

 

[growly_bear]

Problem with that one is when it sees a solar input the B2B output reduces to 25amp. You can get arund with a switch on the solar input or a relay switched by the D+.

That's a great idea re D+. So NC relay to allow solar. Gor it. I was planning on having a switch to disconnect solar, but like this way better! D+ from the front of the EBL

 

[Googlebot]

Where is the EBL earthed?

EBL is earthed via a cable at the back. Think it’s 16mm sq but might be bigger.

Just waiting for a second B2B to arrive so can check if it’s vital? There may be other earth points as well.

 

[growly_bear]

EBL is earthed via a cable at the back. Think it’s 16mm sq but might be bigger.

Just waiting for a second B2B to arrive so can check if it’s vital? There may be other earth points as well.

Googlebot , thank you.
I don't remember 2 wires going into the middle connector at the rear of the EBL (one from the hab battery and the other from the startery (earth). Unless theres a junction box bringing them together somewhere? I'll take a look in the morning.

I was thinking about using the existing wiring for the +ve and -ve on the B2BS , and running smaller wires from the hab battery to feed the EBL. What are your thoughts?

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[Googlebot]

Googlebot , thank you.
I don't remember 2 wires going into the middle connector at the rear of the EBL (one from the hab battery and the other from the startery (earth). Unless theres a junction box bringing them together somewhere? I'll take a look in the morning.

I was thinking about using the existing wiring for the +ve and -ve on the B2BS , and running smaller wires from the hab battery to feed the EBL. What are your thoughts?

I don’t think you need a hab battery feed into the back as that’s for charging. If you are using a B2B and bypassing the EBL, the connectors at the back are redundant.

autorouter or Lenny HB can confirm?

 

[Pausim]

I don’t think you need a hab battery feed into the back as that’s for charging. If you are using a B2B and bypassing the EBL, the connectors at the back are redundant.

autorouter or Lenny HB can confirm?

I think you will still need a hab/leisure battery connection to the EBL, the EBL still needs a 12V supply to power the habitation distribution. The 50A connection to the engine battery is more likely to be the redundant one if the B2B is connected directly to both batteries.

 

[wfdTamar]

If anyone is considering lithium along the lines as described in this thread, but daunted by the cost and complexity - and you're not doing it for the weight saving - a good alternative is lead carbon gel. As long as you have Gel settings on your charging devices (and it physically fits) these are a 'drop in' solution that increase your usable Ah (over a standard lead acid).

As an example I installed a 110Ah one (in my 2002 Hymer B584) that gives 88 usable Ah. £190 and gets about 750 cycles (if discharged that much. Much more at a lower discharge). It's a bit higher than a standard 100Ah and I put it under the seat. I cut the plywood base it sits on so it actually sits on the floor and used the mate bolts rather than post terminals so it would fit.

You searched for lead carbon gel - Alpha Batteries

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

 

[growly_bear]

I think you will still need a hab/leisure battery connection to the EBL, the EBL still needs a 12V supply to power the habitation distribution. The 50A connection to the engine battery is more likely to be the redundant one if the B2B is connected directly to both batteries.

Pausim Thanks for this. I've found the EBL29 block/wiring diagram, and after trying to fathom it out, it seems that the EBL negative must go to the Hab battery (and shunt to measure if wanted), the EBL positive must go the hab battery (for display panel/level sensors/BL7 (external charger if needed)/solar).

 

[autorouter]

I agree with what's already been said. The hab connection at the back of the EBL (Wohnraum Batterie) is essential for supplying all the hab loads (lights, water pump, fridge/heater controls etc) as well as a possible path for the solar and aux battery charger.

The cab connection (Starter Batterie) is redundant - it only feeds the split charge relay, which will of course not be required if you are fitting a B2B. You can pull the 50A fuse to disable it, or if you want you can disconnect the wire from the EBL and use it for the B2B if it's thick enough. The split charge relay will still click on and off, but won't do anything because there's no connection to the starter battery.

The 20A feed from the starter battery to the EBL comes in on Pin1 of the 5-way connector, and provides all the other starter battery functions: fridge 12V heater element power, starter battery trickle charging, and starter battery voltage sensing.

Note there is a thin voltage sense wire on the hab battery, with a 2A fuse next to the main 50A fuse, and a separate thin negative. These allow accurate battery voltage measurement without the voltage drop that occurs along the main power wires. Be sure to keep these wires, the EBL shuts off it it can't see voltage along them

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