Gas Tank Replacement Rule & Certificate Denial

[Kemerton527]

Have been told today by service engineer that my gas tank is just over ten years old so he will not give me a gas safe certificate , new regulations are if your tank is ten years old you have to have it replaced, can’t find any up to date news on this, as anybody heard the same

 

[Kannon Fodda]

It would be great if there was a testing and certification facility for the lpg tanks and cylinders but if those in the industry like Autogas 2000 say it is not viable, so be it. Unless anyone here wants to set it up?

I can only compare to the scuba diving cylinders which are regularly tested - 2 years or so a visual test where valves are removed to look inside the cylinder - 4 /5 yearly where a hydrostatic test at 1.5 x working pressure is applied. Many of these cylinders fail due to the neck threads being excessive tolerance, but then pressure in the cylinders can be 232bar as filled (some can be 300bar) compared to say 15bar for lpg, yet the scuba tanks will be much thicker than the lpg cylinder so it all compensates.

But scuba is portable and thus easily conveyed to a workshop. Underslung lpg is not. Put the expense of safely emptying the lpg, disconnection and dismounting, safely getting the cylinder to the testing facility (is a courier going to transport something that has had flammable gas residues in it?), if it passes returning it and refitting?

Remember the most vulnerable time for a cylinder to fail will be at the point of filling when the pressure inside increases in a short space of time.

Let's not compare this to the iffy practices of the African world. We are subject to the UK Health and Safety Regulations. Yes the average lpg cylinder, well maintained and suitably protected, may well last many years beyond 10 years, but the idea of the lifespan rules is to catch a problem before something catastrophic might happen.

We whinge that our timing belts need to be changed periodically (on time or mileage) yet many may appear visually OK, yet accept that is better than having a new engine. In a similar way we need to accept that for our own and others safety, many lpg tanks hoses and such like also have a lifespan before replacement on age safety grounds.

The biggest issue is that many have not been providing adequate warnings that there was a lifespan limitation on lpg cylinders and tanks. Certainly my 2019 built Autotrail Gasit system had no prominent warning, even a note, in the handbook for this, but I was advised by Autogas 2000 of the need when I had an extra cylinder fitted in 2023.

 

[PlacidoD]

So on what grounds? Negligence in this would be quite hard to prove.
Tbc I'm not advocating that people neglect inspection just querying the neccesity to replace what appears to be a servicable tank. Btw I'm writing this from Morocco where the average gas bottle looks like its been dropped from an aircraft.

I doubt you would have problems in the event of e.g. an RTA but an explosion of your tank and a written off vehicle would likely lead to an enquiry about the age of the tank. And your vehicle need not have been the original cause of the fire/explosion. There was recently a fire at a storage facility in Middleton, Manchester. A fire in another vehicle followed by an explosion in yours might give you problems.
P.S. I know what you mean about Morocco. Life is so different there. I have stayed in villages which have only stand pumps for mains water and bushes and trees are regularly used as washing lines!

 

[SVMC15]

You can buy a new 30l tank, delivered for £320 after 10% discount. That's £32 a year, why are people reluctant to replace them?

 

[wildcampers69]

Man who sells and fits LPG tanks advises all need replaced at 10 years old . Also wife of 35 years in the insurance industry states that unless a specific clause in your policy states "if you have an lpg tank it needs recertifiction or replacement" then rest easy they will pay out. I will go out on a limb and say very few people with an 10 years old lpg tank will be rushing out for a replacment.

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[Googlebot]

Man who sells and fits LPG tanks advises all need replaced at 10 years old .

He didn’t, he advised they need testing and recertification every 10 years (eminently sensible), which is not cost effective so replacement is cheaper.

 

[Dave and Jen]

Here are 3 photos of the tank on my previous van- date stamped 2006. The brackets had rusted away and the tank was just wedged in place. I know it's more than 10 yrs old but it shows just how bad they can get. Probably be worse if you live near the sea.
Cheers, Dave

 

[Basildog]

Here’s a typical example of a tank that was doomed from the day it was installed

 

[Basildog]

It would be great if there was a testing and certification facility for the lpg tanks and cylinders but if those in the industry like Autogas 2000 say it is not viable, so be it. Unless anyone here wants to set it up?

Let's not compare this to the iffy practices of the African world. We are subject to the UK Health and Safety Regulations. Yes the average lpg cylinder, well maintained and suitably protected, may well last many years beyond 10 years, but the idea of the lifespan rules is to catch a problem before something catastrophic might happen.

It’s actually amazing to see how intelligent people seem to think that if something is done in Morrocco then it must be safe
They have an appalling safety record for gas cylinder use .
To be honest I have a zero tolerance now for idiots that know better than, the moment you hear the words “ I have been doing this for 30 years it’s time to exit the stage
The more I hear from those that think that none of the industry standards or recommended codes of practice apply to them the more determined I am to make this industry safer .

 

[MisterB]

So, doing the maths, £1321 for an underslung equates to £132.10 each year, but then of course in ten years it will be more expensive. However at £132.10 per year, does that really provide a cost effective solution to lpg use by using an underslung as opposed to cylinders?


Or is it better to reduce LPG use as much as possible and then just stick with exchange cylinders?
When Gaslow had 15 year cylinders it seemed an obvious option and a better solution in terms of cost effectiveness.

Now I am beginning to think about whether the lithium dream is just a similar bubble a lot of us are experiencing ....

How Much Does Motorhome LPG Tank Installation Cost?

Find your motorhome LPG tank installation cost with our handy guide and learn all about the benefits of installing an underslung LPG tank in your vehicle.

www.motorhomeworkshop.co.uk

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[CazPaul]

And therein lies the mistrust and problem, is part of it just a money making racket to get a new tank fitted?
It may well go from 10 years to 8, then 7 etc
It’s a shame for people who look after their Motorhome equipment, inspect their underslung tank regularly, spray it yearly.

You’ll always get occasions where you will find examples of poorly maintained tanks, even if it goes to 8 years next you will get images and posts saying” This tank is 6 years old just look at the corrosion and state it’s in” And then saying “ Can you now see why we are reducing it to 8 years”

Is there any sort of standards in place for the design/production of these tanks, who makes them, which country are most of them made in? Is there a minimum regulation for the metal thickness? Are they made from the lowest grade metal possible?
Are they mass produced as cheaply as possible to gain maximum profit?
Are some produced to a better standard than others? How much do they actually cost to produce?
Has anyone examined a brand new underslung tank, checked how well it’s made, the threads, cut it in half to see the thickness, what’s grade of metal is used, how well it’s actually made.
Are 99% of the ones fitted just cheap, badly made poor examples to start with and you’re already on a hiding to nothing to start with?
If you fit a crap product then it will deteriorate quickly regardless of the maintenance, yearly checks etc.
If you fit a sows ear then that’s what you’ve got, a sows ear, it will never be a silk purse no matter how well you look after it, spray it, examine it.

I suppose the thinking is if you have to replace it in 10 years regardless then why produce a quality item to start with?
Most of the cost if fitting one will be Labour costs not the materials.

When ours is 10 years old in 3 years I’m going to dump it and find another way of heating the van.

 

[Two on Tour]

When my underslung lpg tank arrived, the first thing I did was to lightly scuff up the red coating and then give the tank several spray coats of a rubberised anti-stone chip coating.

I made mounting brackets out of 6mm steel bar that the tank is fixed too and these brackets have sixteen 8mm bolt bolting them to the vans chassis cross members. If for any reason the the tank straps fail (which are also coated in anti-stone chip), then the tank can not fall from it’s mounting frame.

 

[fishplug]

Mine was a GasIt tank, but first thing on the installation instructions was to give it a protective coat of paint

So I did

I left the paint to dry for a couple of days but it just didn't dry so a lot of it came off when mounting it.

Next time I'm going to use something else so I'm interested to know what your rubberised coating was Two on Tour

I ended up lying on my back under the van touching up the paint - which wasn't the most comfortable of experiences. Five years later when I came to remove the tank from the old van I can say that the paint was dry!

However, I had no idea that these tanks had a limited lifespan. That one went on in August 2019 so the big question now is whether I sell it off to someone who is happy to have a cheap tank for 4 years and put a new one on now for the new fit or whether I get 4 more years from it and have to go grubbing around under the van again.

It was a hateful job to fit on my own last time so I'm starting to think it might not be the worst idea just to put a new one on now and be done with it. Decisions, decisions.

 

[Two on Tour]

Mine was a GasIt tank, but first thing on the installation instructions was to give it a protective coat of paint

So I did

I left the paint to dry for a couple of days but it just didn't dry so a lot of it came off when mounting it.

Next time I'm going to use something else so I'm interested to know what your rubberised coating was Two on Tour

I ended up lying on my back under the van touching up the paint - which wasn't the most comfortable of experiences. Five years later when I came to remove the tank from the old van I can say that the paint was dry!

However, I had no idea that these tanks had a limited lifespan. That one went on in August 2019 so the big question now is whether I sell it off to someone who is happy to have a cheap tank for 4 years and put a new one on now for the new fit or whether I get 4 more years from it and have to go grubbing around under the van again.

It was a hateful job to fit on my own last time so I'm starting to think it might not be the worst idea just to put a new one on now and be done with it. Decisions, decisions.

The added Waxoyl was the problem with your Hammerite coating as the Waxoyl is designed not to set. I used Comma Underbody Seal on mine.

 

[TrudeandDall]

So, doing the maths, £1321 for an underslung equates to £132.10 each year, but then of course in ten years it will be more expensive. However at £132.10 per year, does that really provide a cost effective solution to lpg use by using an underslung as opposed to cylinders?


Or is it better to reduce LPG use as much as possible and then just stick with exchange cylinders?
When Gaslow had 15 year cylinders it seemed an obvious option and a better solution in terms of cost effectiveness.

Now I am beginning to think about whether the lithium dream is just a similar bubble a lot of us are experiencing ....

How Much Does Motorhome LPG Tank Installation Cost?

Find your motorhome LPG tank installation cost with our handy guide and learn all about the benefits of installing an underslung LPG tank in your vehicle.

www.motorhomeworkshop.co.uk

I know that this doesn't help people who are stuck with an underslung tank ~ but.
One hidden benefit of owning a MOHO/PVC with a gas locker is that you have completely eliminated all of the installation cost/ maintenance issues that underslung LPG tanks have.
A single 11kg or twin 6kg refillable cylinder holds as much gas as a 25lt underslung tank and its reasonable to pay around £300 for the cylinder and hoses.
The cylinder lives inside the vehicle, so virtually no corrosion issues and when replaced at 10 years it has cost you £30 per year or much less than the cost of one night on a C&CC/ CMC site.

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[fishplug]

Always good to have a different perspective TrudeandDall as there's no right or wrong option. We're all different as are our vans and every choice when fitting out a van is a compromise in one way or another.

I've always opted for smaller vans (6m) which means that making full use of the real estate on the roof and under the van made sense to me.

A gas bottle takes up valuable space if stored inside, but it does get less exposure to the elements and potential damage from debris.

Cost is also a factor, as is whether you want or need the option to easily move your tank outside the vehicle, etc etc etc.

 

[bigtwin]

made

It must be a right bugger trying to isolate that tank when Eurotunnel ask you to demonstrate that it is isolated.

Ian

 

[Two on Tour]

It must be a right bugger trying to isolate that tank when Eurotunnel ask you to demonstrate that it is isolated.

Ian

Not a problem as I have a cutoff valve attached to a rod.

 

[JockandRita]

Two on Tour. Paul, don't those six rolls of kitchen towel get a bit soggy being stored under there?

Jock.

 

[fishplug]

I went for a tank with a solenoid valve which makes it really easy to shut off.

In fact I shut the valve off with the burners still lit so that any gas in the pipe is burned off.

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[Two on Tour]

View attachment 1014224

Two on Tour. Paul, don't those six rolls of kitchen towel get a bit soggy being stored under there?

Jock.

They are special waterproof rolls Jock.

 

[JockandRita]

They are special waterproof rolls Jock.

Och aye, silly me.

Jock.

 

[bigtwin]

Not a problem as I have a cutoff valve attached to a rod.

View attachment 1014220

Neat!

Ian

 

[wildcampers69]

To be honest I have a zero tolerance now for idiots that know better than, the moment you hear the words “ I have been doing this for 30 years it’s time to exit the stage

Take it that experience is worth nothing now, ill ask the new start apprentise what the best way forward from now on

 

[Clive Mott]

If there is zero rust on the tank outside and you are keeping the van, then if it were mine I would not worry. If you were selling the van then you need to make the purchaser aware. We had underslung lpg tanks on our last two motorhomes but this time we opted for refillable cylinders. We chose Alugas as we are always chasing payload. I still have the original pigtails in case we get forced to revert to Calor. So far no problems refilling plus of course refillables in a gas locker dont get pebbledashed by road grit.

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[jocksd1]

So on what grounds? Negligence in this would be quite hard to prove.
Tbc I'm not advocating that people neglect inspection just querying the neccesity to replace what appears to be a servicable tank. Btw I'm writing this from Morocco where the average gas bottle looks like its been dropped from an aircraft.

negligence is easy to prove as all tanks are stamped and dated.
i'm into american rv's and have seen gas tanks 20-25 yr old properly rusty and the owner isnt bothered about sleeping above 60,80,100l underslung gas tank.
i have also seen 1 gas tank that had the dated stamp ground off and painted over,
And this is to save a few pounds !

 

[Jerrywh]

Interested to note that Gaslow will offer a discount on a replacement for a 10yo tank. Also they offer to recertify such a tank, while warning that it is cheaper to buy a new one!
I'm happy with my Gaslow tank, easy to fill, accurate gauge and currently £222 for an 11kg new tank. Less 10% if it's a replacement.

 

[KevinTuplin]

Installers should be telling customers before installation that you need a brand new tank at 10 years, it should be on their websites and in the paperwork and verbally explained.

We had ours fitted in 2018 by Autogas 2000, not a word about it mentioned and nothing on their website at the time.

This is my paperwork from Autogas 2000 issued from new in 2018 and it states the tank has a ten year life span..And I was verbally made aware of this by Chris Wise and John the man who fitted my system on both occasions I have had this system fitted to my MH.

 

[CazPaul]

This is my paperwork from Autogas 2000 issued from new in 2018 and it states the tank has a ten year life span..And I was verbally made aware of this by Chris Wise and John the man who fitted my system on both occasions I have had this system fitted to my MH.



View attachment 1014324

I wasn’t made verbally aware at all
I’ll check the paperwork

 

[CazPaul]

If there is zero rust on the tank outside and you are keeping the van, then if it were mine I would not worry. If you were selling the van then you need to make the purchaser aware. We had underslung lpg tanks on our last two motorhomes but this time we opted for refillable cylinders. We chose Alugas as we are always chasing payload. I still have the original pigtails in case we get forced to revert to Calor. So far no problems refilling plus of course refillables in a gas locker dont get pebbledashed by road grit.

That’s what we would do but it’s against all advice from the experts and regulations and you wouldnt be able to fill up at Autogas 2000 and presumably other outlets? regardless of the lack of rust.

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[SVMC15]

That’s what we would do but it’s against all advice from the experts and regulations and you wouldnt be able to fill up at Autogas 2000 and presumably other outlets? regardless of the lack of rust.

It isn't the rust that is the main issue. It is the crack propagation that occurs in all stressed materials.