Gas Tank Replacement Rule & Certificate Denial

[Kemerton527]

Have been told today by service engineer that my gas tank is just over ten years old so he will not give me a gas safe certificate , new regulations are if your tank is ten years old you have to have it replaced, can’t find any up to date news on this, as anybody heard the same

 

[TrudeandDall]

Have been told today by service engineer that my gas tank is just over ten years old so he will not give me a gas safe certificate , new regulations are if your tank is ten years old you have to have it replaced, can’t find any up to date news on this, as anybody heard the same

The service engineer is working to UK industry standards.
Your tank doesn't have to be replaced at 10 years, it needs inspecting and recertification.
But as there is no business in the UK who undertake inspection and recertification, your only option to get a gas safe certificate is to replace it.

 

[CazPaul]

What is the gas safe certificate used for?

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Realistically if your van is of certain age, does it really matter unless you are wanting to sell it on? If it does not leak and passes its test which any habitation service guy has to check regardless...ignore it. If it has failed then its understandable to have to replace it that would just be common sense . If it has passed its gas safety regardless of age...move on. Enjoy your journeys.

Kev

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Tanks can degrade (corrode) from outside and inside. They slightly expand and contract as filled and drained which particularly can stretch and strain threads for valve and other inlets / outlets. Very little of that can be seen visually and needs factory overdressed testing to calibrate. As lpg is both pressurised and flammable do you want to risk the failure?

Lpg suppliers can refuse to fill out of test tanks and cylinders.

As above there is no UK based testing facility so replacement becomes the only option.

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[Carolyn and Kev]

Tanks can degrade (corrode) from outside and inside. They slightly expand and contract as filled and drained which particularly can stretch and strain threads for valve and other inlets / outlets. Very little of that can be seen visually and needs factory overdressed testing to calibrate. As lpg is both pressurised and flammable do you want to risk the failure?

Lpg suppliers can refuse to fill out of test tanks and cylinders.

As above there is no UK based testing facility so replacement becomes the only option.

Just a quickie...Last time any one filled up their gas (LPG ) from a garage or like we do from our local Lp gas suppliers ...did anyone get asked for a test certificate to prove its worthiness before they filled up? No ...I doubt it very much either.
Gas suppliers to the trade in Wolverhampton BOC ...Take our Oxy acetylene bottles and refill without hesitation. Some of the bottles we use are stamped with dates ranging from 1997 to 2012. There are actually 12 in total. None have ever been refused a refill yet.

Just a thought.

 

[TrudeandDall]

Just a quickie...Last time any one filled up their gas (LPG ) from a garage or like we do from our local Lp gas suppliers ...did anyone get asked for a test certificate to prove its worthiness before they filled up? No ...I doubt it very much either.
Gas suppliers to the trade in Wolverhampton BOC ...Take our Oxy acetylene bottles and refill without hesitation. Some of the bottles we use are stamped with dates ranging from 1997 to 2012. There are actually 12 in total. None have ever been refused a refill yet.

Just a thought.

Oxy acetelyne bottles do not have an internal mechanism that stops the filling at 80%. LPG refillable bottles and tanks do.and that is one of the things that need inspection at 10 years.
Just because suppliers do not check your equipment, does not mean you csn use out of inspection equipment safely.

 

[Langtoftlad]

As with payload limits... I wonder how many motorhomers are even aware of the ten year lifespan of their refillable lpg tank/cylinder ?

I suppose that the vast majority of motorhomers use exchange cylinders

 

[Mikeco]

Tanks can degrade (corrode) from outside and inside. They slightly expand and contract as filled and drained which particularly can stretch and strain threads for valve and other inlets / outlets. Very little of that can be seen visually and needs factory overdressed testing to calibrate. As lpg is both pressurised and flammable do you want to risk the failure?

Lpg suppliers can refuse to fill out of test tanks and cylinders.

As above there is no UK based testing facility so replacement becomes the only option.

The 10 years quoted has been set by Liquid Gas UK in a Code Of Practice, this organisation is the mouthpiece for the industry. If it’s not possible to comply with this then they should review the 10 year period to see if it can be extended or make sure that their members provide a reasonable priced testing service.

 

[Lenny HB]

Realistically if your van is of certain age, does it really matter unless you are wanting to sell it on? If it does not leak and passes its test which any habitation service guy has to check regardless...ignore it. If it has failed then its understandable to have to replace it that would just be common sense . If it has passed its gas safety regardless of age...move on. Enjoy your journeys.

Kev

That is a really dangerous and irresponsible attitude, tanks and cylinders are designed to last 10 years so if they can't be tested they should be replaced. At 10 years all valves need replacing.
Last thing you want is to be responceable for burning down a firecourt yes it has happened.

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[Jwats]

Lenny HB is absolutely spot on, I have been on the test and inspection course they started up to pass gas tanks as part of yearly gas test so know how important these things are and how many people are driving around with poorly maintained tanks or just wrong tanks all together. If you put it another way. Your gas tank ruptures and explodes (due to corrosion or defect) and there is record of your tank been expired and you been informed of this and chose to ignore due to small cost (relative to your motorhome). Guess who’s going to get the book thrown at them in the courts if that explosion does some damage.

 

[CazPaul]

Installers should be telling customers before installation that you need a brand new tank at 10 years, it should be on their websites and in the paperwork and verbally explained.

We had ours fitted in 2018 by Autogas 2000, not a word about it mentioned and nothing on their website at the time.

 

[Googlebot]

I went to another aerosol explosion last week.

Somehow ended up in a small fire contained on a hob and exploded. Not a big aerosol, think of a large deodorant can size.

The blast blew out every window and door including the frames and moved a concrete block wall 4 inches sideways in the room next door. Luckily the occupant had exited on seeing the small fire.

Last one was pretty much the same but destroyed every internal plasterboard stud wall and blew the windows out including frames. The poor patient who was inside the first one had a shock and lost their eardrums, thankfully otherwise unscathed apart from cuts and bruises. Had to go to hospital to check for collapsed lungs and hollow organ damage.

That’s a very small can of propane going up.

I changed my bottles early.

 

[Lenny HB]

Installers should be telling customers before installation that you need a brand new tank at 10 years, it should be on their websites and in the paperwork and verbally explained.

We had ours fitted in 2018 by Autogas 2000, not a word about it mentioned and nothing on their website at the time.

I think that may have been before Basildog took over the company.

 

[CazPaul]

I think that may have been before Basildog took over the company.

Yes I think it was owned by Chris Wise at the time so I hope things have changed now. However I believe the main fitter who did ours John is still fitting them.

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[Littlewheels]

I understand it’s a regular occurrence for the straps holding the tanks that are prone to snapping which is more often than a leaking tank.

 

[Basildog]

Have been told today by service engineer that my gas tank is just over ten years old so he will not give me a gas safe certificate , new regulations are if your tank is ten years old you have to have it replaced, can’t find any up to date news on this, as anybody heard the same

Nothing new about this .
All LPG cylinders, bottles , tanks need recertification and all valves replaced @ 10 years old or replacement.
Unfortunately there is no longer any company who can offer recertification so it’s basically replacement.
When you actually start to think about the logistics involved in recertification you soon realise it wouldn’t be financially viable.

 

[Basildog]

Realistically if your van is of certain age, does it really matter unless you are wanting to sell it on? If it does not leak and passes its test which any habitation service guy has to check regardless...ignore it. If it has failed then its understandable to have to replace it that would just be common sense . If it has passed its gas safety regardless of age...move on. Enjoy your journeys.

Kev

NO LPG pump operator should allow a cylinder or tank that is out of certification to be refilled .
At 10 years all cylinders and tanks are unfortunately essentially scrap .

 

[Basildog]

Yes I think it was owned by Chris Wise at the time so I hope things have changed now. However I believe the main fitter who did ours John is still fitting them.

Yes Chris always had it in the paperwork that any cylinder or tank required annual inspections and at 10 years a full inspection/ recertification,
It is no longer possible to have recertification done so replacement is the only option.
But once you get your head around the logistics involved in getting a tank recertification if it was possible it wouldn’t be financially viable .

 

[Basildog]

Just a quickie...Last time any one filled up their gas (LPG ) from a garage or like we do from our local Lp gas suppliers ...did anyone get asked for a test certificate to prove its worthiness before they filled up? No ...I doubt it very much either.
Gas suppliers to the trade in Wolverhampton BOC ...Take our Oxy acetylene bottles and refill without hesitation. Some of the bottles we use are stamped with dates ranging from 1997 to 2012. There are actually 12 in total. None have ever been refused a refill yet.

Just a thought.

I regularly refuse to refill cylinders and tanks .
As a supplier and well known company in the industry we wouldn’t have a defence to say “ we didn’t realise that the system was old and out of certification “
For a few pence of profit it’s not sensible business practice not to check what you are filling , especially with all the idiots that have now piped up any type of cylinder to a fill point .
We would hardly get away with not knowing what it was
The last petrol forecourt LPG fire was caused by an idiot filling Calor cylinders.

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[Basildog]

I understand it’s a regular occurrence for the straps holding the tanks that are prone to snapping which is more often than a leaking tank.

The previous owner of our company spent years trying to argue that LPG tanks should never be hung in the straps , they were thin plastic coated steel straps and frames that were designed to hold a tank down in the boot of a vehicle.
They were never designed to hang tanks from , but unfortunately the industry was persuaded to add a third strap as a precautionary measure
We as a company have never fitted tanks in straps of the type that snap and have designed and manufactured many different types of tank cradle’s using substantial steel hoops and serious chassis mounting points .
We decided that we would never be the cheapest as we refuse to compromise.

 

[Basildog]

Here’s some pictures of a 5 year old LPG tank that obviously wasn’t properly protected from the initial installation and probably hasn’t had it’s annual inspection done either .

 

[PlacidoD]

Just a quickie...Last time any one filled up their gas (LPG ) from a garage or like we do from our local Lp gas suppliers ...did anyone get asked for a test certificate to prove its worthiness before they filled up? No ...I doubt it very much either.
Gas suppliers to the trade in Wolverhampton BOC ...Take our Oxy acetylene bottles and refill without hesitation. Some of the bottles we use are stamped with dates ranging from 1997 to 2012. There are actually 12 in total. None have ever been refused a refill yet.

Just a thought.

Using a 10+ year old tank is certainly going to void your insurance in the event of problems.

 

[Basildog]

I don’t think those that think recertification should be available have really given it some considered thought.
So let’s say a firm sets up a recertification centre in the Midlands.
You go to your dealer in Devon , he removes the tank .
Who is going to transport a used gas cylinder / tank ?
So it needs emptying, valves removing and filling with an inert gas .
Now try and find a courier ?
The tank now needs completely stripping of paint and inspection, so it fails on excess pitting from corrosion ?
Who pays the bill up to now for a fail ?
I forgot to mention that the valves all need removing and that if you didn’t have multiple hernias before starting this process it wouldn’t be long before you did , our new valving tool is £14,500 not including the additional balancing cradle and jigs required.
So now we have a tank that’s passed a test but it’s going to need repainting / powder coating and then transporting to someone for replacement valves ?
The process just isn’t practical for what is essentially a pretty cheap product from new .

 

[Basildog]

Installers should be telling customers before installation that you need a brand new tank at 10 years, it should be on their websites and in the paperwork and verbally explained.

We had ours fitted in 2018 by Autogas 2000, not a word about it mentioned and nothing on their website at the time.

I am pretty sure your paperwork stated the requirements of an annual inspection and that at 10 years recertification was required.
I wasn’t in the industry at the time but I know the previous owners were instrumental in pushing many of the paperwork requirements for the inspection and maintenance of LPG systems.

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[Carolyn and Kev]

Is it just me or what?

Here’s some pictures of a 5 year old LPG tank that obviously wasn’t properly protected from the initial installation and probably hasn’t had it’s annual inspection done either .
View attachment 1013472
View attachment 1013473

So there is a picture of a tank with surface rust yes? What of that photo suggests its scrap?
Nothing at all! Come on...talk about going over the top! Some of you will be scrapping your trucks shortly because of bubble rust on the chassis or in the paint on the bodywork if you take this that seriously!
Ultrasound or even better scanning of the metal should be made available to those who test for this rather than a look at paintwork and think the world's come to an end....hey oh .

 

[jongood]

Tanks can degrade (corrode) from outside and inside. They slightly expand and contract as filled and drained which particularly can stretch and strain threads for valve and other inlets / outlets. Very little of that can be seen visually and needs factory overdressed testing to calibrate. As lpg is both pressurised and flammable do you want to risk the failure?

Lpg suppliers can refuse to fill out of test tanks and cylinders.

As above there is no UK based testing facility so replacement becomes the only option.

I take your point about corrosion but surely there would be some evidence? I dont see how you would measure the potential for stretching as some tanks are filled less often than others. Structral failure can't be a big issue or we would be hearing about it, the only ones I've heard about are where people have run about with filler uncovered so it doesnt seal.

 

[jongood]

Using a 10+ year old tank is certainly going to void your insurance in the event of problems.

So on what grounds? Negligence in this would be quite hard to prove.
Tbc I'm not advocating that people neglect inspection just querying the neccesity to replace what appears to be a servicable tank. Btw I'm writing this from Morocco where the average gas bottle looks like its been dropped from an aircraft.

 

[Littlewheels]

Here’s some pictures of a 5 year old LPG tank that obviously wasn’t properly protected from the initial installation and probably hasn’t had it’s annual inspection done either .
View attachment 1013472
View attachment 1013473

I do believe these images suggest poor maintenance, out of sight out of mind springs to mind, however, the strap shown doesn’t look original (too clean) . The manufacturer is somewhat negligent in supplying a Tank without sufficient preparation. My tank is recoated before it was fitted and thought it will age the paint won’t drop off nor will the straps fail. Do one job but do it right.

 

[SVMC15]

Ultrasound or even better scanning of the metal should be made available to those who test for this rather than a look at paintwork and think the world's come to an end....hey oh .

There are ways to assess the condition of any pressure vessel, many places do, visual inspection being one part of any procedure. I'm sure if anyone really wanted to have it done someone would take their money. However as has been explained by professionals the cost of this being carried out on a small gas tank is much more than a replacement tank.

As for using your tank after ten years I expect you would be falling foul of relevent legislation and therefore without being able to produce an in date test certificate any insurance cover would be void.