Lithium Upgrade.

[barsteward]

Right a couple of questions.

I have a votonic 330 duo fitted. I fitted it about 5 years ago and it has performed perfectly well maintaining the cab and leisure batteries but is it man enough with the planned lithium upgrade. Specifically I should not need to fit a dc to dc charger, the duo already tricle charges the cab battery or would it be wiser to fit a new one, what are your thoughts?

The battery has more or less chosen itself. The site of the present installation will only accept up to 350mm x 350mm so it will have to be the underseat model 230amp.

The major players appear to be Eco Tree, Roamer and Fog Star. Eco Tree appears to be cylindrical and the other two prismatic. I think the tech has moved on quite a bit in the last couple of years, even Telsa are using prismatic cells in their cars.

So I'm leaning towards Fog Star, I dont think the price diffrence of the cylindrical cell compared to todays prismatc is worth the extra cost. Having said that I've just been reading through Fog Star tech sheet It says it,s case is of ABS construction which would push me toward roamer.

What are your thoughts? experiances?

 

[LithiumConvert]

Specifically I should not need to fit a dc to dc charger,

You do not say why.

The B2B is required to protect the alternator from the high currents which can occur with charging lithium.

 

[Stealaway]

Right a couple of questions.

I have a votonic 330 duo fitted. I fitted it about 5 years ago and it has performed perfectly well maintaining the cab and leisure batteries but is it man enough with the planned lithium upgrade. Specifically I should not need to fit a dc to dc charger, the duo already tricle charges the cab battery or would it be wiser to fit a new one, what are your thoughts?

The battery has more or less chosen itself. The site of the present installation will only accept up to 350mm x 350mm so it will have to be the underseat model 230amp.

The major players appear to be Eco Tree, Roamer and Fog Star. Eco Tree appears to be cylindrical and the other two prismatic. I think the tech has moved on quite a bit in the last couple of years, even Telsa are using prismatic cells in their cars.

So I'm leaning towards Fog Star, I dont think the price diffrence of the cylindrical cell compared to todays prismatc is worth the extra cost. Having said that I've just been reading through Fog Star tech sheet It says it,s case is of ABS construction which would push me toward roamer.

What are your thoughts? experiances?

Why are you moving to lithium? Are you planning to spend more time off grid?

 

[Just smiffy]

Don’t forget https://offgridpower.solutions/ a great small company with good customer service and don’t forget to sign up to them and get a funster discount…

I’ve recently bought some stuff from them and they are very knowledgeable, they can even make a battery to your size and specs…

 

[AdrianChen]

Right a couple of questions

The major players appear to be Eco Tree, Roamer and Fog Star. Eco Tree appears to be cylindrical and the other two prismatic. I think the tech has moved on quite a bit in the last couple of years, even Telsa are using prismatic cells in their cars.

I have Ecotree and so far so good after a couple of years, but I think prismatic manufacture is now very good so if going again I would be perfectly happy to buy a decent make with prismatic cells.

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[TrudeandDall]

Right a couple of questions.

I have a votonic 330 duo fitted. I fitted it about 5 years ago and it has performed perfectly well maintaining the cab and leisure batteries but is it man enough with the planned lithium upgrade. Specifically I should not need to fit a dc to dc charger, the duo already tricle charges the cab battery or would it be wiser to fit a new one, what are your thoughts?

The battery has more or less chosen itself. The site of the present installation will only accept up to 350mm x 350mm so it will have to be the underseat model 230amp.

The major players appear to be Eco Tree, Roamer and Fog Star. Eco Tree appears to be cylindrical and the other two prismatic. I think the tech has moved on quite a bit in the last couple of years, even Telsa are using prismatic cells in their cars.

So I'm leaning towards Fog Star, I dont think the price diffrence of the cylindrical cell compared to todays prismatc is worth the extra cost. Having said that I've just been reading through Fog Star tech sheet It says it,s case is of ABS construction which would push me toward roamer.

What are your thoughts? experiances?

You don't say how much solar you have and the demand you make on your system, so working out if your controller is adequate is not easy.
Your SR330 is not an MPPT controller, you would get more from your panels with the Votronic MP360 , but at a cost.
I have 280w of solar and 190ah of (old school) AGM, my MP360 has produced 5300ah over the last 11 months. This is from UK touring, a couple of months over the Channel and the rest maintaining both batteries sat outside our house in Northern England.
As for the B2B, I will let the knowledgeable answer that one.
Hope this helps.....

 

[barsteward]

Ah, mine is the previous version to yours I Ibelieve its the mppt 350 duo. We have 300w of solar and 160ah of Gel but the the batteries are starting to not hold their charge for very long.

 

[barsteward]

duplicate post

 

[Lenny HB]

Also OffGrid stock Fogstar and you get a 10% discount.

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[barsteward]

Why are you moving to lithium? Are you planning to spend more time off grid?

To be honest I've always been off grid but there have been occasions when I haven't had enough, mainly in winter. The gel batteries are now 6years old and don't seem to be holding thier charge for very long. I'm also thinking I could add an inverter for additional flexability.

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[Lenny HB]

Specifically I should not need to fit a dc to dc charger,

The DC to DC charger commonly referred to as a B2B is for charging the leisure battery not the starter battery and is essential with Lithium.
It will ensure the Lithium gets the correct charge and will protect the alternator.

 

[barsteward]

You do not say why.

The B2B is required to protect the alternator from the high currents which can occur with charging lithium.

I am not very knowledgable and tend to resarch as I go along. The solar charger I have connects to both the hab batteries and cab battery and trical charges the cab when the hab batterries are fully charged and as such assumed this was a battery to battery charger.
Exactly why I ask these questions. Thank you

 

[barsteward]

The DC to DC charger commonly referred to as a B2B is for charging the leisure battery not the starter battery and is essential with Lithium.
It will ensure the Lithium gets the correct charge and will protect the alternator.

Thanks Lenny, any suggestions on brands?

 

[TrudeandDall]

Ah, mine is the previous version to yours I Ibelieve its the mppt 350 duo. We have 300w of solar and 160ah of Gel but the the batteries are starting to not hold their charge for very long.

Okay.. It possible that your Votronic has a lithium charge profile, certainly mine does. In perfect summer sunny conditions your solar could put about 20amps into the batteries. In reality you should should of think around 50% of that figure and only managing maintenance of both batteries in the winter.
A B2B is the way ahead to charge when on the move...

 

[barsteward]

Don’t forget https://offgridpower.solutions/ a great small company with good customer service and don’t forget to sign up to them and get a funster discount…

I’ve recently bought some stuff from them and they are very knowledgeable, they can even make a battery to your size and specs…

Thanks Smiffy,
I was browsing the forum yesterday for info and found a post from offgrid so signed up for the discount, waiting for that at the momment then will order the battery.

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[Lenny HB]

Thanks Lenny, any suggestions on brands?

Victron you want the Orion XS it's the new 50 amp one it runs cooler than the old 30 amp an the output is adjustable it will be fine for your van as you have the upgraded alternator.

OffGrid sell but I don't think any stock avalible until mid April.
RogerIvy will know.

 

[barsteward]

Okay.. It possible that your Votronic has a lithium charge profile, certainly mine does. In perfect summer sunny conditions your solar could put about 20amps into the batteries. In reality you should should of think around 50% of that figure and only managing maintenance of both batteries in the winter.
A B2B is the way ahead to charge when on the move...

Oh dear, I feel a not very happy Ms Barsteward and an empty bank balance coming on.

 

[tonka]

Oh dear, I feel a not very happy Ms Barsteward and an empty bank balance coming on.

Better slow down.. you'll have nothing left for beer at the next rally !!!

 

[barsteward]

Better slow down.. you'll have nothing left for beer at the next rally !!!

 

[RogerIvy]

Victron you want the Orion XS it's the new 50 amp one it runs cooler than the old 30 amp an the output is adjustable it will be fine for your van as you have the upgraded alternator.

OffGrid sell but I don't think any stock avalible until mid April.
RogerIvy will know.

As I understand it the very early orders may be rolling out quite soon now. April seems to be the month that everyone is holding breath for.

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[Ian_H]

Right a couple of questions.

I have a votonic 330 duo fitted. I fitted it about 5 years ago and it has performed perfectly well maintaining the cab and leisure batteries but is it man enough with the planned lithium upgrade. Specifically I should not need to fit a dc to dc charger, the duo already tricle charges the cab battery or would it be wiser to fit a new one, what are your thoughts?

The battery has more or less chosen itself. The site of the present installation will only accept up to 350mm x 350mm so it will have to be the underseat model 230amp.

The major players appear to be Eco Tree, Roamer and Fog Star. Eco Tree appears to be cylindrical and the other two prismatic. I think the tech has moved on quite a bit in the last couple of years, even Telsa are using prismatic cells in their cars.

So I'm leaning towards Fog Star, I dont think the price diffrence of the cylindrical cell compared to todays prismatc is worth the extra cost. Having said that I've just been reading through Fog Star tech sheet It says it,s case is of ABS construction which would push me toward roamer.

What are your thoughts? experiances?

My fogstar 230Ah underseat battery case certainly seems to be metal not abs.

 

[barsteward]

My fogstar 230Ah underseat battery case certainly seems to be metal not abs.

Thank you, I could well have reservations that have no basis in fact but i have seen one case of an abs case distorting over time. Fogstars own website tech spec link specs it as abs construction. Perhaps Fogstar need to update there data as surley I can't be the only novice that has been influanced by google search.

Thank you again though it gives me a little more reassurace.

 

[jumar]

I went with Roamer last year...so far perfect for us, we off grid 100,%
As for B2B... Victron 30 amp version..it does get very hot and needs measures to cool it down...with that in mind I wouldn't go for this one again..

 

[AdrianChen]

Thank you, I could well have reservations that have no basis in fact but i have seen one case of an abs case distorting over time. Fogstars own website tech spec link specs it as abs construction. Perhaps Fogstar need to update there data as surley I can't be the only novice that has been influanced by google search.

Thank you again though it gives me a little more reassurace.

Must have been some problem with the cells inside I guess - something would have to give!

This was a friends boat, these are AGM's that went rogue during layup, there must have been some pressure inside them, Paul reckoned they were over 100°, but all contained - So I guess ABS has its merits, especialy if the batts are protected from external damage in a secure location. Bit of surgery needed to get them out.....

 

[Pausim]

Must have been some problem with the cells inside I guess - something would have to give!

This was a friends boat, these are AGM's that went rogue during layup, there must have been some pressure inside them, Paul reckoned they were over 100°, but all contained - So I guess ABS has its merits, especialy if the batts are protected from external damage in a secure location. Bit of surgery needed to get them out.....

View attachment 877082

AGM, Gel and other lead acid types can gas but this is not an issue with LiFePO4.

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[AdrianChen]

AGM, Gel and other lead acid types can gas but this is not an issue with LiFePO4.

I know - but they can get hot and distort hence the idea was to show the ABS can take some punishment.

This issue was caused by bad installation (of solar), so although rare it can be made to happen - The report concluded that if these had not been LiFepo4, but Lead the effect would have been catastrophic, rather than inconvenient!

 

[Pausim]

I know - but they can get hot and distort hence the idea was to show the ABS can take some punishment.View attachment 877099

This issue was caused by bad installation (of solar), so although rare it can be made to happen - The report concluded that if these had not been LiFepo4, but Lead the effect would have been catastrophic, rather than inconvenient!

I have seen that before in a lithium cobalt oxide battery but first picture of a LiFePO4 I have seen in that state. Better to distort a plastic than have it compressed by a steel case I would have thought.

 

[AdrianChen]

I have seen that before in a lithium cobalt oxide battery but first picture of a LiFePO4 I have seen in that state. Better to distort a plastic than have it compressed by a steel case I would have thought.

They split the weld on the case!

Got to stress that this battery was badly abused getting the full brunt of 100v Solar array that passed through an underspecced and cheap controller (US RV).

 

[Ian_H]

Thank you, I could well have reservations that have no basis in fact but i have seen one case of an abs case distorting over time. Fogstars own website tech spec link specs it as abs construction. Perhaps Fogstar need to update there data as surley I can't be the only novice that has been influanced by google search.

Thank you again though it gives me a little more reassurace.

The spec sheet made me go out and check, the case is definitely magnetic! Yes it's very poor that the sheet is inaccurate, although I would ask them directly cos specs can change. Some of their photos still show the older underseat battery without the on/off switch and balancer socket between the terminals. I think the underseat battery spec is more of a drift pro spec than drift. They are a good company with helpful people, but some of their documentation is not as good as it should be.

 

[barsteward]

They split the weld on the case!

Got to stress that this battery was badly abused getting the full brunt of 100v Solar array that passed through an underspecced and cheap controller (US RV).

Pausim. I believe you installed a lithium set up a couple of years ago on the compact line?.
Could I be cheeky and ask what route you used for the dc to dc charger cable so as to save me the hastle of pulling half the van apart to find a route through.

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