Lithium / inverter install help please?

PaulC70

PaulC70

Joined
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Bailey Autograph792F
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Since June 2021
Hi all, so in February I replaced my 100ah banner hab battery with a Fogstar 300 loads of juice! Then got rid of the truma solar controller and replaced with a victron 100/20 and then Ive done nothing more, basically dropped it in knowing I need to look at making sure I can optimise the charging etc etc.
However, this has taken on a little more urgency now the fogstar is completely flat, partly my fault but partly family stuff and a new grandaughter! I did email roadpro in Daventry a few times but never got much response and someone here says they wont work on anything they didnt fit anyway.
If I have to get someone to do it I guess it will be Vanbitz as I trust them, but I'd love to do this myself from a project point of view with the help of those on here that know about these things?

Anyway, I have a plan to include the following.
1. Another solar panel (currently the stock 100 or 120w one on roof)
2. Keep the fogstar 300, in an ideal world I would add another, there is an empty battery box under the bench seat
3. Find out if I do or do not have a smart alternator as I believe this affects the hab battery charging and its efficiency.
4. Fit a decent inverter to be able to charge the wifes lithium battery for her mobility scooter

Currently the fogstar is only showing 6v but with the engine running showing only 11.6 v so alternators not doing what I would expect hence my renewed need to sort out the efficiency of the system. Again on alternators people talk of a B2B and disconnecting the split charger but can't see if my system has one offhand so have included a couple of pics of what I do have below.
As I say all input appreciated.
IMG_4860.jpeg
IMG_4861.jpeg
 
I did my upgrade to lithium back in September I have a Fogstar Drift Pro 300ah.
to go with this I purchased a Victron Multiplus 2000a inverter/charger, victron DC to DC Orion-TR 12/12 30 Smart charger, victron VE smart dongle, victron smart mppt solar regulator for the extra 220 w of solar I fitted on the roof and continue to use my buttner regulator for existing panels as it had lithium setting.
I have also fitted a battery mate in addition to the trickle charge from the Multiplus for when not on EHU to keep starter battery topped up.
Basically disconnected mains and disconnected connection to starter battery from my EBL 30 leaving existing 12v system to be controlled through EBL 30 avoiding having to re wire the circuits
I fitted two new consumer units for mains all connected through the Multiplus which automatically switches sockets from mains to inverter when required and will also provide more ampage to mains if EHU is low amp (not used that function yet)
The system works really well and it’s great to be able to use any 230v sockets in the van from inverter as required.
We have also used successfully our microwave, Remoska Grande and Electric kettle on inverter without problems and hardly noticed on state of charge on the Fogstar which was immediately topped up by solar.
so all in all a great success😊👍
 
That black box on the negative terminal of your battery is a shunt so you have a smart alternator. You will never be able to charge any type of leisure battery properly without out a B2B most manufacturers fit them with a smart alternator but Bailey often don't.

I don't see how the Fogstar can be at 6v as once it gets down to 10v the BMS will shut it off. You need to disconnect the battery to measure it.

If you don't have a B2B you will need to fit one and disable te split charge relay, and if you use EHU best to change the mains charger as well.
 
Thanks both for the replies.
Speve, to me a lot of that was like another language :cry: :cry: :cry:
But between what you and Lenny have said I think my first step should be to sort a B2B first as we do a lot of touring rarely staying anywhere more than a night, 2 maximum, so if I can get the alternator setup more efficient that will help.
We rarely use EHU but when I did last time I did note that it charged the fogstar from 11% to 50%+ overnight.

So fitting a victron DC to DC Orion-TR 12/12 30 Smart charger would essentially mean disconnecting the black shunt on the negative Lenny mentions, and fitting the DCtoDC from starter battery to hab battery?

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As for the 6v I've just taken it off the charger to see again and it's reading 7.5v now with nothing connected on my multimeter.
Despite that the app seens to think it's 12.9v pics are below.
IMG_4862.jpeg

IMG_4863.jpeg
 
Jev88 said:
Battery looks full to me?
Click to expand...
Well in the sense that one bit says 12.9v and yet only 12% and when i check on a multimeter only showing 7ish volts??
 
AdrianChen said:
Is the battery in the multimeter fresh?
Click to expand...
Not brand new but not an old one, i've another multimeter in the shed, maybe ill dig that out.

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The discharging ‘switch’ is set to ‘Off’ so I wouldn’t be expecting to see 12+V on the output terminals.

Ian
 
PaulC70 said:
So fitting a victron DC to DC Orion-TR 12/12 30 Smart charger would essentially mean disconnecting the black shunt on the negative Lenny mentions, and fitting the DCtoDC from starter battery to hab battery?
Click to expand...
A big NO the alternator won't work if you do that , it's the split charge relay you need to disconnect.
Victrons 50 amp B2B will be available next month worth considering if you have an uprated alternator.

Are you sure that you don't already have a B2B?
 
deleted as dont want this to be picture heavy but suffice to say bigtwin hit the nail on the head! toggling the discharge switch and both multimeters now read the 12+v!
 
Lenny HB said:
A big NO the alternator won't work if you do that , it's the split charge relay you need to disconnect.
Victrons 50 amp B2B will be available next month worth considering if you have an uprated alternator.

Are you sure that you don't already have a B2B?
Click to expand...
I don't believe I have a B2B many of the bailey owners believe they werent fitted until 2022 models and this is a 2020.
Happy to wait for a better 50amp victron if its advantageous and cost effective.
 
Lenny HB said:
If that is a true reading the battery is :swear2:
Click to expand...
Ive deleted the pics, the issue was the discharge not being on, I think it turned off itself when the battery went to 0.
 
Also on the B2B, when i measured the hab battery and engine running it was only showing 11.7 ish volts and would have thought it would be higher which makes me think no current B2B?
 
PaulC70 said:
Also on the B2B, when i measured the hab battery and engine running it was only showing 11.7 ish volts and would have thought it would be higher which makes me think no current B2B?
Click to expand...
Don't bother with voltage on Li, open the battery bms app and see if any amps flow into the battery with the engine running. You definitely have a smart alternator, and a split charge it is useless with Li.
 
When fitting an inverter, I recommend not going for anything larger than you really need. I have a Victron Phoenix 12/375 inverter for my eBike and it only uses about a third of it.

What’s the specification of the mobility scooter charger? You can post a picture of the label on the charger if you’re not sure.

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Do you have the latest update to the Fogstar app?
Make sure the battery is switched on for charging and discharge, as Lenny said!
Your 1,2,&3 cell temperature readings should be about the same!
Contact Fogstar for the correct information!
I have no problem with mine, a 280, other than the need to fully charge it occasionally to bring the app and Victron Shunt app to equal 100% fully charged!
 
StillGoing said:
When fitting an inverter, I recommend not going for anything larger than you really need. I have a Victron Phoenix 12/375 inverter for my eBike and it only uses about a third of it.

What’s the specification of the mobility scooter charger? You can post a picture of the label on the charger if you’re not sure.
Click to expand...
IMG_4866 copy.jpg
 
Raul said:
Don't bother with voltage on Li, open the battery bms app and see if any amps flow into the battery with the engine running. You definitely have a smart alternator, and a split charge it is useless with Li.
Click to expand...
OK, that will be Tuesday then as it's charging in the dining room right now, then Im working the next 2 days :-(
So it's the split charger not the shunt that needs disconnecting if I fit the victron?
 
PaulC70 said:
Happy to wait for a better 50amp victron if its advantageous and cost effective.
Click to expand...
What rating is your alternator?

RogerIvy will be able to update you and if you buy from him you will get a 10% discount.
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PaulC70 said:
Also on the B2B, when i measured the hab battery and engine running it was only showing 11.7 ish volts and would have thought it would be higher which makes me think no current B2B?
Click to expand...
That confirms no B2B.
 
StillGoing said:
When fitting an inverter, I recommend not going for anything larger than you really need. I have a Victron Phoenix 12/375 inverter for my eBike and it only uses about a third of it.
Click to expand...
I would agree if he had LA batteries but with 300 ah of Lithium I would fit a fairly large one as with that amount of Lithium use patterns will change. If you fit a quality inverter like a Victron the standby currents are far lower than cheap ones & he has plenty of power anyway.
 
Lenny HB said:
I would agree if he had LA batteries but with 300 ah of Lithium I would fit a fairly large one as with that amount of Lithium use patterns will change. If you fit a quality inverter like a Victron the standby currents are far lower than cheap ones & he has plenty of power anyway.
Click to expand...
The more you fit, the more you use it seems
 
jwells said:
Do you have the latest update to the Fogstar app?
Make sure the battery is switched on for charging and discharge, as Lenny said!
Your 1,2,&3 cell temperature readings should be about the same!
Contact Fogstar for the correct information!
I have no problem with mine, a 280, other than the need to fully charge it occasionally to bring the app and Victron Shunt app to equal 100% fully charged!
Click to expand...
App wise there seems no way to update it if its an older version, looking in the app store, no updates.
I'll email fogstar again after christmas I think, I had hassle with the battery back when i got it from them re the temperatures ie showing as minus 20 celcius and they sent some settings to sort this temporarily which didn't work so they had it collected, fixed it and sent it back to me within 2 days. Maybe that fix hasn't lasted.
 
As a comment on post #3: Not sure if we are looking at the same black box but the one I see on the negative side of the vehicle battery looks a lot like an isolation relay rather than a shunt.

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