Lesson in appliance ages - household

[starquake]

Sounds mad, but we have replaced a few appliances due to them breaking in last year, but I've been noticing the impact on winter bills rather keenly in last weeks.

Washer dryer, previous one 10 years old, new one still not condensor, but newer (Hotpoint again sadly as all they had in stock) .. average wash we seem to be using about 1kwh less power, and on a wash and dry, it's around 2kwh less per cycle.

Dishwasher, old smeg, died after 10 years service, new one Bosch high effeciency one, dropped from ~ 3kwh a load to around 1.5-2 (it varies based on how dirty the plates are unlike old one).

TV - 10 year old 42" versus 65" new ... uses 30w less when switched on despite the larger size. This is a negliable difference, but we replaced this cause the old TV basically needed replacing when we done the living room as the rearranged layout (thanks Mrs starquake) meant we were too far from the TV to see a good picture. (We sit 4m from the screen now necessitating a large one, compared with 2m in old-room layout).

But with us doing a "load" of washing each weekend, I reakon we are saving 60p per wash load done peak, and about 7.5p a day (as dishwasher is off peak) on the dishwasher (we run this every single day, so it's saving about £27 a year on our cheap tariff, but if we were on the "normal" tariff, it would be a £100 a year saving).. The nuts thing is much as the dishwaher won't repay it's cheaper power use in its lifespan, the washer dryer most certainally will -> ie, the new machine cost is repaid in the price to run. (The washer dryer is probably saving us £100 a year, in electric alone based on our 3 wash a week average and thats being conservative with the energy savings).

I'm not one to say this lightly, but with current high prices of energy, I would highly reccomend looking at your appliances you run daily or 3-4 times a week as to their potential for energy saving as they may repay their price in only 1-2 years of use in terms of energy savings.

 

[gus-lopez]

it's around 2kwh less per cycle.

we only use between 3> 4Kwh a day in total.

 

[Garfields]

It's always going to be difficult to work out what's worth doing though.
If you had the money in a decent account just now paying you interest that needs to be taken into account as well
Did you donate/recycle the used equipment? or have to pay for an uplift?

Got me think though we have done a few things over the years. More insulation, mostly Led lighting, Adjusting boiler settings etc.
I have been keeping a record of monthly usage and for the last rolling twelve months we have used the following.

12 months KW/h
Gas	10088​
Electric	2531​
total	12619​

This is for a three bed detached. No supplementary heating like wood burners etc SE Scotland. I think the figures are ok but no idea how they compare with others.
Not sure you can compare ?

 

[starquake]

It's always going to be difficult to work out what's worth doing though.
If you had the money in a decent account just now paying you interest that needs to be taken into account as well
Did you donate/recycle the used equipment? or have to pay for an uplift?

Got me think though we have done a few things over the years. More insulation, mostly Led lighting, Adjusting boiler settings etc.
I have been keeping a record of monthly usage and for the last rolling twelve months we have used the following.

12 months KW/h
Gas	10088​
Electric	2531​
total	12619​

This is for a three bed detached. No supplementary heating like wood burners etc SE Scotland. I think the figures are ok but no idea how they compare with others.
Not sure you can compare ?

In our case all the stuff broken and was irrepairable except the 42" TV, which we donated to my sisters husband for use in his gym - in fact the chap laughed at our old washer dryer as the concrete block in base had detached, hence the loudness and movement in the last year of its life. It was unrepairable hence why we replaced/

(the smeg dishwasher completely died with a control board fault, for which the repair was twice the cost of the new model we purchased).

On your figures, your gas numbers compared to us are triple ours (we use about 3-4000 kwh depending on weather a year) in a 3 bed semi-deteached no supplimenteary heating, with a gas hob. Your electric is "half" ours however-> we have an EV which is why we're using double the electricity I suspect. We also have reduced our gas a lot by lowering the boiler temperature (which reduced our usage by a thirs without us being "colder") -> and we did use 9000 kwh a year a few years ago, but by swapping the thermostat for a more controllable programmable one, and lowering temp we did massively reduce our usage. We only have boiler on in morning and from 4-9pm really, but our programmable boiler kicks in if the house lowers below 16, and our insulation is good, as even when it was -6 this weekend, we dropped from 20 (heat on) to only 17 between 10pm and 8am.

 

[starquake]

we only use between 3> 4Kwh a day in total.

Us it's 7 to 9 a day when not chathing car, about 50-60 on an avergae charge, > 80 if we're fully empty.

But it's amazing how much of it is the above appliances, without the dishwasher it would be a lot lower, as we can see the dishwasher cycle in the daily usage graphs on the smart meter, ditto the dryer.

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[Dutch 68]

What are the total savings per year though, might be a while before you break even, I have just done my attic insulation, went from 75mm to 575mm, no clue as to what the annual saving in gas will be, but it’s not going to pay for a holiday, maybe a tank of fuel if we are lucky

 

[Garfields]

Electric wise we average 7kw/h per day with not much variation between summer and winter.
Biggest overall users are freezers ether two or three running at times and I also have propagators running in the spring.

 

[Pausim]

If you are going to have to replace something eventually you might as well do it sooner rather than later and get the savings now. When we moved into our current home the gas boiler was 20+ years old and not a condensing one. I had it serviced and asked about it’s future and was told they could get spare parts for now but that I would save 15% to 20% on gas if I had a condensing one. No brainer to me, I was going to have to buy one more boiler sometime so I might as well get it now and save money for longer. One of my neighbours with an identical old boiler is convinced he will save money by squeezing a few more years out of the old one. False economy as far as I am concerned. The neighbour is older than me and even less likely to outlive a new boiler than I am.

 

[starquake]

What are the total savings per year though, might be a while before you break even, I have just done my attic insulation, went from 75mm to 575mm, no clue as to what the annual saving in gas will be, but it’s not going to pay for a holiday, maybe a tank of fuel if we are lucky

About £150 being conservative on usage numbers, if we use more we save more. New appliances except the Telly which was a luxury were £350 each, so about 4 year payback on appliances that base don last ones should last 10.

Literally been amazed how much cheaper the newer washer dryer has been and thats the one to prioritise I would say

 

[pappajohn]

We just replaced a 110cm electric range cooker.
The old one was over 10 years old and well used.
The new one heats the ovens a lot faster and the halogen hobs don't need turning up as much as the old ones.
No idea of the energy saving but it'll take a while to recoup the £1300 outlay.

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[LithiumConvert]

Biggest overall users are freezers ether two or three running at times

And they are on 24/7.

Very energy hungry.

 

[two]

After I had swapped from an old boiler to a new condensing one there was still no noticeable difference in gas consumption,
I think claimed savings are all "up to ..." = could be nothing at all...

 

[Guigsy]

When I replaced the fridge freezer a couple of years ago, most manufacturers seemed to have three levels of efficiency in their range. If I assumed it was going to last 7 years, it was definitely worth paying the extra for the mid tier model based on power savings. The top A+++ model wasn't worth it... but unit prices are now much higher than a couple of years ago.

 

[starquake]

After I had swapped from an old boiler to a new condensing one there was still no noticeable difference in gas consumption,
I think claimed savings are all "up to ..." = could be nothing at all...

It depends on teh setup. Conversely to expectation you need the flow temperature "lower" on a condensing boiler for it to condense, but not too low.

For us, lowering to about 45-50 celcius reduced our gas use by a full third with no noticable difference in house heat. But I am aware this doesn't apply in all houses.

It's also worth nothing our plumber didn't set the temperature to the optimal one when he left.

 

[two]

It depends on teh setup. Conversely to expectation you need the flow temperature "lower" on a condensing boiler for it to condense, but not too low.

For us, lowering to about 45-50 celcius reduced our gas use by a full third with no noticable difference in house heat. But I am aware this doesn't apply in all houses.

It's also worth nothing our plumber didn't set the temperature to the optimal one when he left.

Agree, there are too many variables - and opportunities for a supplier to wriggle out of an awkward position.
In my case (old, draughty Victorian house) I think we simply heat the environment too much. Reducing the boiler temp reduces gas consumption but the house gets too cold.

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[Garfields]

It depends on teh setup. Conversely to expectation you need the flow temperature "lower" on a condensing boiler for it to condense, but not too low.

For us, lowering to about 45-50 celcius reduced our gas use by a full third with no noticable difference in house heat. But I am aware this doesn't apply in all houses.

It's also worth nothing our plumber didn't set the temperature to the optimal one when he left.

There has been a thread running on the Pistonheads web site for ever discussing how to optimise your boiler settings.
So many variations based on house types and boiler brands and everything else.
You can spend a lot of money for very small savings.
If it came down to being warm or motorhoming the van would be going.

 

[Lenny HB]

After I had swapped from an old boiler to a new condensing one there was still no noticeable difference in gas consumption,
I think claimed savings are all "up to ..." = could be nothing at all...

After changing ours the house now heats up a lot quicker & gas consumption dropped by over 25%.
Got my money back on what the boiler cost in about 2½ years (fitted it myself) and a much warmer house.
Probably won't last much longer boiler is now 11 years old and new ones are the same efficiency so there won't be any savings next time.

 

[starquake]

When I replaced the fridge freezer a couple of years ago, most manufacturers seemed to have three levels of efficiency in their range. If I assumed it was going to last 7 years, it was definitely worth paying the extra for the mid tier model based on power savings. The top A+++ model wasn't worth it... but unit prices are now much higher than a couple of years ago.

Indeed, on fridges/freezers, the difference between D and A can be £50-100 a year in running costs, so by paying the £100 year one which is often the difference between a D and A model, you are a net winner in many cases. Difference from A-A+ isn't as large.

My parents offered us a old chest freezer from their garage, I put it on a meter for 24 hours at their house pre-move and asked them to scrap it instead as I could by my workings buy a new one for the cost of the electricity over the first year alone. (it was a very hungry chest freezer, and would have accounted for half my houses usage if I'd taken it). The freezer we ended up with in comparison sips energy....

 

[LithiumConvert]

After I had swapped from an old boiler to a new condensing one there was still no noticeable difference in gas consumption,

Should have been to Vaillant.

 

[chaser]

How do you know how much electricity each thing is using and how much the old one used if it's been removed, ?

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[rod_vw]

One of the heaviest consumers was in the past our fridge & freezer, when these were changed the electricity consumption dropped considerably. Our average consumption is 4.7kWh per day for 2023 BUT that's assisted by solar input of an average of 9.8kWh per day over the same period. FIT payment is about £850 for this year, will rise by the inflation rate again next year so looking at £1000 plus for 2024/25.
Up until the rise in energy price a couple of years ago the FIT was paying for all of our energy each year .

 

[The Wino]

We gave away our old condenser dryer and bought a heat pump one this year the smart meter showed a pretty big difference. I think it's going to pay for itself in 18 months to two years. You won't get a return like that from money in the bank.

 

[Guigsy]

We gave away our old condenser dryer and bought a heat pump one this year the smart meter showed a pretty big difference. I think it's going to pay for itself in 18 months to two years. You won't get a return like that from money in the bank.

We've got a 1990s house, so not ultra modern. I just wash and spin clothes, then throw them on an airer in a spare room. Door closed, window cracked, radiator on eco. Everything dries in a day or so. No condensation issues. The only time we use our ancient dryer is if we need technical clothing to re-proof.

 

[Lenny HB]

We gave away our old condenser dryer and bought a heat pump one this year the smart meter showed a pretty big difference. I think it's going to pay for itself in 18 months to two years. You won't get a return like that from money in the bank.

Wouldn't work for us our tumble dryer only gets used ½ dozen times a year if that much so 'll stick with our 30 year old one.

 

[Lenny HB]

How do you know how much electricity each thing is using and how much the old one used if it's been removed, ?

Use one of these and check the old one before you take it out.

Amazon product ASIN B0B6FZRNBF

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[two]

Should have been to Vaillant.

That's more than likely to be true!
I was persuaded to buy Worst a Bosh. Terrible user instructions (manual full of errors). The 'welcome' congratulated me on choosing an A class boiler but, when I looked at the spec, it had only just qualified for that rating by the smallest of margins. Others may be happy with their W-B (or Fiat) but I can make a long list of grumbles about them. Sadly, I fear that the competition may be little different.

 

[chaser]

Wouldn't work for us our tumble dryer only gets used ½ dozen times a year if that much so 'll stick with our 30 year old one.

Our tumble drier works for free.

 

[two]

We gave away our old condenser dryer and bought a heat pump one this year the smart meter showed a pretty big difference. I think it's going to pay for itself in 18 months to two years. You won't get a return like that from money in the bank.

We use a line.
Had to buy new cord for it once (but don't recall what rating).
Still not sure when (or if) it paid for itself...

 

[Lenny HB]

We use a line.
Had to buy new cord for it once (but don't recall what rating).
Still not sure when (or if) it paid for itself...

We recently bought a new line dries much more efficiently as it's a top spinner but it did cost 100 quid.

 

[Pausim]

It depends on teh setup. Conversely to expectation you need the flow temperature "lower" on a condensing boiler for it to condense, but not too low.

For us, lowering to about 45-50 celcius reduced our gas use by a full third with no noticable difference in house heat. But I am aware this doesn't apply in all houses.

It's also worth nothing our plumber didn't set the temperature to the optimal one when he left.

The chap who fitted my boiler said the important temperature is the return, if the water gets back to the boiler too hot it can not recover the heat from the flue gasses and will not activate the condensing process. The absolute maximum for the return is 54°C, down to 30°C further improves the condensing process and efficiency.

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