Leisure Battery Issues

[TOAD on Tour]

Hi all, newbie here after picking up our 2007 Hymer B660 SL last week. I am having issues with the Leisure Battery and would appreciate anybody’s advice. Firstly we are really happy with the van, it is in great condition for its year and has lots of service history etc. However upon collecting the van, I did notice the leisure battery charge % on the display panel was around 25% and no solar was feeding the battery either (it has 2 original solar panels on the roof). I drove it home which was around 120 miles and the leisure battery went up to 75%, so I thought all was well. I have since had it on EHU on my drive and as we have been pottering around inside the battery is now down to 8% left even though it is on EHU (EHU is working as we have been using one of the plug sockets etc). I have reset the electric (is it the MCB or something!), the solar is not pulling in any energy still and 1 of the 3 pin electric sockets is not working (not sure if that is connected to these issues). On the display panel, when on hook up the battery is showing between 13.6 - 14.4V and when I disconnect the EHU it drops to around 13.5V (Definitely stays above 13.0V). I am thinking that it must be something to do with the charger as I believe the engine alternator charges the leisure battery when driving, which seems to be working? But when on EHU it does not charge and the solar is not charging either?
Any words of wisdom or advice would be appreciate......finally, I can barely change a lightbulb, so please treat me kindly!!

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Thanks Paddy, much appreciated

 

[Pausim]

This cable will work with a Schaudt controller LR1218 but I don't think that it does with your controller. I would consider replacing the controller you have with the Schaudt LR1218 (PWM) or LRM1218 (mppt) or Votronic Duo as these are compatible with the EBL . I suspect you originally had a LR 1218 factory fitted as that is what I have (Hymer B525 2006)

I used one with a Votronic controller, it doesn’t have to be a Schaudt one. It is just a piece of wire with a plug that fits the EBL solar socket. I removed the plugs from the controller end and clamped the wires into the appropriate connections. I don’t think the LR1218 is an MPPT controller and I would suggest that if replacing the controller an MPPT one is a good idea.

 

[autorouter]

If you want to feed the controller output through the EBL, the 3-way socket will take the positive and negative leisure battery output of the solar controller on pins 1 and 3, just like that wire in the link.

But there's more. Pin 2 (ie the centre pin) will take the starter battery positive output of the controller, and feed it to the starter battery. Not all EBL models will do this, but the EBL101 is one of those that does.

The connector is a MNL (Mate'N'Lok) type, available from many suppliers including Altec Automotive and 12VoltPlanet. You crimp the pin onto the wire, then push it into the plastic housing until it clicks and locks in.

Mate N Lok Universal Connector Pair - 3 Way

3 way Mate N Lok connectors for 0.5-2.0mm² cable provide secure and robust multiple connections. Supplied as a pair of male/female housings with all terminals.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Thanks autorouter, really appreciate all the guidance and help

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[denisejoe]

If I remember correctly with that solar controller the battery must be connected first then the solar panel

 

[TOAD on Tour]

thanks denisejoe, it would appear so as there is a sticker saying the same located near the controller....so I think at some stage somebody may have turned disconnected the battery and re-connected with doing the same to the solar......

 

[Hymerbrittany]

All great advice, but having been there with my own leisure and engine battery issues, search my user name, I would offer this. Check that the connections on all batteries are good and tight, and that the extra wires added by previous owners are nice and tidy. This done I suggest a visit to a battery shop, garage, where they can tell you if your battery is old or what. I had mine tested and the engine battery was supposed to work with less than 15% of its cells working... Don't need to be an expert to understand, new battery required. Leisure batteries were replaced as they were over 6 yrs old, suggestions seems to be to replace after around 4 ish, everyone's different though. Connections were crap from previous owner so all in all, after they were made sharp and tidy, plus replacement batteries, my fingers are not so tightly crossed now, with the will it won't it work question every time you go near. Good luck and don't belittle your abilities, persistance will be your friend.

 

[pappajohn]

do I have to disconnect the battery to take the reading with the multimeter?

No, leave as it is.
Set the meter to DC volts (usually a horizontal line with dashs below)
Connect the meter leads to the battery and note the voltage.....should be no lower than 12.6v for a full charged battery.
Now connect hookup and do the same, again note volts... Should be 13.6 to 14.4v
Leave for a couple of hours OFF hookup then check again.... Should be around 12.6v if the battery is good.

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Thanks pappajohn

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[TOAD on Tour]

Thanks HymerBrittany....so I have had somebody with better knowledge than myself look at it today....they have kindly replaced the fuse and fuse housing and done something else which confused me (not difficult) and I now have the solar feeding the leisure battery as it should and apparently even in today’s windy, cloudy wet weather here in Cornwall it was pulling in power.....regarding the 3 pin socket that was not working in the van, this was an easy diagnosis, somebody at sometime and for whatever reason has cut through the electric cable feeding the socket. But interestingly there is no cable going off anywhere, just around 2 feet of cable that is connected to the socket! I’ve called the dealer I purchased the van from and he has no idea why that is and is happy for me to return it and he will get it sorted!

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Hi all - update....had a guy look at the solar and he replaced the burnt out fuses etc. And the solar started to charge the leisure battery. I’m going to check today as it is Sunny to see if it is continuing to charge as I have my doubts over the past few days. Also I am pretty sure when on EHU it is not charging even though I see the 230v sign on the control panel lit up and the battery shows that it is at around 14.2 - 14.4 v, but the battery % does not increase. I have ordered a ctek battery charger which arrives today and plan to disconnect the 2 leisure batteries and give them a charge, just to see if it is battery related. I had the Hymer serviced yesterday and that was the advice of the mechanic, albeit they were not Motorhome specialist, it was a commercial vehicle garage. Does anybody feel that it makes sense to give the batteries a charge and work from there, the mechanic explained that although you are showing the right voltage, the battery may not be producing the amps required? The control panel seems to max out at around 50% charge from the solar/alternator, as I say I do not think it charges much from EHU, I have just hooked it up on EHU and the panel is saying that 1.3amp is coming in (the control panel shows +1.3 A), this just seems low when nothing is on in the van. Any other suggestions from you lovely people!

 

[Pausim]

You may just need to synchronise your battery monitor. If they don’t have sophisticated battery settings and automatic synchronisation they cam drift off target and give bad readings.

 

[Lenny HB]

I don’t think the LR1218 is an MPPT controller and I would suggest that if replacing the controller an MPPT one is a good idea.

The LR1218 is a PWM but is does work better than most but it is only a single stage charger. Once it gets to 14.2v it holds at that voltage. I wouldn't use it on any battery other than a Gel.

 

[paddymcc]

As said before 14v means that the leisure batteries are getting a charge. I wonder if the problem regarding the percentage reading is that the parameters on the control panel have been set for 1 leisure battery not 2. Do you have the original hymer book with details as to how to change them?

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[paddymcc]

You never said if the wires from the solar controller went to the EBL or directly to the leisure battery? If they do the latter then I think that the % reading will be wrong anyway.

 

[Hymerbrittany]

Hi all - update....had a guy look at the solar and he replaced the burnt out fuses etc. And the solar started to charge the leisure battery. I’m going to check today as it is Sunny to see if it is continuing to charge as I have my doubts over the past few days. Also I am pretty sure when on EHU it is not charging even though I see the 230v sign on the control panel lit up and the battery shows that it is at around 14.2 - 14.4 v, but the battery % does not increase. I have ordered a ctek battery charger which arrives today and plan to disconnect the 2 leisure batteries and give them a charge, just to see if it is battery related. I had the Hymer serviced yesterday and that was the advice of the mechanic, albeit they were not Motorhome specialist, it was a commercial vehicle garage. Does anybody feel that it makes sense to give the batteries a charge and work from there, the mechanic explained that although you are showing the right voltage, the battery may not be producing the amps required? The control panel seems to max out at around 50% charge from the solar/alternator, as I say I do not think it charges much from EHU, I have just hooked it up on EHU and the panel is saying that 1.3amp is coming in (the control panel shows +1.3 A), this just seems low when nothing is on in the van. Any other suggestions from you lovely people!

Hi ya, progress for sure, but I go back to my point of getting your battery's checked. As I said before, I had a similar issue and discovered by a battery check at a battery garage, that not only did I have reduced output but catastrophic cell damage. If you even minor cell damage, your battery won't hold charge. Get them checked and then you'll know once and for all. Good luck. ❤ John

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Sound advice John...I am in Plymouth and just spoke to a local battery shop and they said that they would check the battery’s and can fit new ones if required. just A bit mindful of driving through Plymouth in my Hymer during lockdown! Although I think I have a genuine reason to be on the road! I’ll let you know how it goes

 

[Lenny HB]

Sound advice John...I am in Plymouth and just spoke to a local battery shop and they said that they would check the battery’s and can fit new ones if required. just A bit mindful of driving through Plymouth in my Hymer during lockdown! Although I think I have a genuine reason to be on the road! I’ll let you know how it goes

Waste of time they will do a CCA test which is a starter battery test meaningless for a leisure battery. No one will do a leisure battery test as it will cost more than a new battery as it will take a day or two.
The only way to test a leisure battery is by a controlled discharge test which you can easily do yourself.

First charge the battery fully and leave it to settle for an hour then:-

For example if it's a 100a/h battery load it with a 5 amp load and run for 5 hours, this will represent a 25% discharge. (adjust load/time to suit the size of the battery)
Disconnect the load and leave to stand for at least 30 min then measure the voltage.
Repeat the test and you will have discharged the battery to 50%.
You can repeat again then it will be 75% discharged.

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Thanks Lenny, I am just a bit hesitant in disconnecting and reconnecting etc. The batteries! I can barely change a light bulb!

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[TOAD on Tour]

Ok! Now I am confused.....I have just gone out to the van and checked the battery as I put in on EHU a couple of hours ago when the control panel was showing 50% charge and 88ah on the vans display panel.....now It is saying 100% and 175ah.....I have unhooked the EHU and the readings are staying the same I.e. 100%. I’m just trying to think what I can switch on to draw 12v power and monitor how the battery goes down etc. Under load.

 

[Lenny HB]

You can do the test with the batteries in place. You could do an initial test with both batteries you only need to separate them if they don't look good then test each one to find the duff one.

I'm setting up my battery monitor at the moment so doing discharge tests I'm using the fridge on 12v as a load with fridge & freezer doors open it won't turn off on the thermostat. On initial switch on it draws 15 amps then after a min or two drops to 13 amps ideal for my test.
Yours is a Hymer so you should be able to do the same.

 

[Lenny HB]

Ok! Now I am confused.....I have just gone out to the van and checked the battery as I put in on EHU a couple of hours ago when the control panel was showing 50% charge and 88ah on the vans display panel.....now It is saying 100% and 175ah.....I have unhooked the EHU and the readings are staying the same I.e. 100%. I’m just trying to think what I can switch on to draw 12v power and monitor how the battery goes down etc. Under load.

Don't take too much notice of the panel it may not be correct.

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Thanks Lenny, I agree, however the voltage readings I know are correct (-/+ 0.1) as the garage recently confirmed that.

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Hi Kenny - just saw your fridge test reply....I am now doing the same, with doors to fridge/freezer open. Started as you say at 15a, after a min or so it is hovering around 13.8 (with doors open)

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[TOAD on Tour]

Sorry Lenny....just called you Kenny....sausage fingers on my iPad stood in the van!

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Now after a few minutes the fridge is around 13.4a

 

[autorouter]

Ok! Now I am confused.....I have just gone out to the van and checked the battery as I put in on EHU a couple of hours ago when the control panel was showing 50% charge and 88ah on the vans display panel.....now It is saying 100% and 175ah.....I have unhooked the EHU and the readings are staying the same I.e. 100%.

Which display panel do you have? If it's the DT201,there's a Menu button, and you can tell the panel how many amp-hours (Ah) the leisure batteries are. It then takes 80% of that value as usable battery capacity. So for example if you have 200Ah of battery, it calculates 80% of that, ie 160Ah.

After a couple of charge/discharge cycles, it has worked out when it is 100% charged, and will become more accurate. The percentage display will then be a percentage of the usable capacity.

I know it's a bit confusing with all these percentages of percentages, but it means that when the display shows 0% you still have 20% in the battery, so it's not totally flat.

But as paddymcc says, if the solar power is going direct to the batteries, not through the EBL, this % display won't take it into account so you'd better just ignore it. Also the solar amps won't show up on the display. At least the voltage readings will be correct, they are independent of the amps/% readings.

 

[TOAD on Tour]

Thanks.....confusing! Never ....well after leaving the fridge/freezer on for 1 hour the panel said 91% when I went out and checked and then immediately went to 0%.....I guess this is more and more leaning towards the batteries is some shape or form. Now back on hook up and it is pulling in approximately 6a and the % is slowly going up. I then unplugged the EHU and noticed that the charging stopped and no amps being pulled in, which suggests that the solar is not providing any charge.....when plugged the EHU it started charging again!

 

[paddymcc]

Sounds like the batteries. You definitely need to check voltage at the battery terminals when resting (not being charged). Do you have a voltmeter?

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[TOAD on Tour]

I had a garage check the voltage and that seems fine, they seem to think the voltage is not generating the amps if that makes any sense?